Quantcast

The Holy Grail. {What you have all been waiting for.}

spocomptonrider

sportin' the CROCS
Nov 30, 2007
1,412
118
spokanistan
This place is funny, we have to be the nit-pickiest group ever. First dude builds a super sweet gearbox bike (on his own no less) and the only thing any one can think about (or talk about for that matter) is zomg gripshift?111!01!!! Now he refines it further, making it lighter and sweeter and the only thing any one can think about is BUTTONS111!!!!11!!1!00! zomg!!!111!!
 

Jason4

Monkey
Aug 27, 2008
338
0
Bellingham
That's progression for you.

BTW Great job on the bike. It looks very promising and I look forward to seeing it evolve.
 

HaveFaith

Monkey
Mar 11, 2006
338
0
So I will try to hit the majority of the questions with this post.

Yes, this frame is the precursor to the one in development with Spooky Bikes. We are working on the next iteration that will be stiffer, lighter and quite a bit more polished in terms of build. This will be available for development and team riders only in the near term, with plans for limited production in the future.

The shifting mount is definitely something I am thinking about. I have the option of getting a couple of buttons that I could harness into the existing shift box and place on each side of the bar. I will probably do this to cover all the bases for developing the user interface. The current mounting location however, was done last minute to get it to interbike. Everything is done pretty much straight out of my pocket, so you can imagine developing single production parts can get expensive. The real mount design will be below the bars, closer to the thumb and quite possibly angled a touch. The current buttons have two stages of click to them. The top level changes one gear, and the lower level with a decent press grabs three. Very easy to dump gears coming into corners etc.

The hub has flange spacing of 2.75" (~72mm) and they are perpendicular to the axle axis. I would have loved to angle them to help with the spoke bend, but in the interest of cost savings, I tried to keep it simple. As it is, it cost about $1000 to machine 3 hub bodies, without the bearings, end caps or sprockets. The hub weight came out to 180g with a steel 12t sprocket. It is fully dishless and can be adapted for 10 or 12mm axles and 135mm and 150mm frame spacing at minimal cost. The machining was done by a local shop here in OC. I tried contacting true precision and industry nine about helping me out, but I didnt get anyone to return my email/calls. Any of you g-boxx frame designers want to get in on a group buy to drive cost down??!!

There is definitely near-term future plans to downsize the controls box. This was the quickest and simplest way to do something for prototyping and developing. Nothing in any industry goes straight from design into consumer level trim. The space driver right now is the servo, with the battery about the size of a razor phone folded up and the controls board about 2/3 the size of a stick of gum. The board is custom programmed by my buddy Ethan with my input into the algorithm design. I am expecting to get about 20 hours of battery time on it once the code has been fully fleshed out.

Currently the failure mode is the box getting stuck into gear. You could then manually move the servo to the next detent to get whatever gear you want to be stuck in.

Shout with any other questions guys! I really appreciate the interest and the input is awesome from a dedicated bunch like yourselves. If I missed anything let me know.
 
Last edited:

w00dy

In heaven there is no beer
Jun 18, 2004
3,408
36
that's why we drink it here
Nice workand a very interesting post. I also vote for moar bigger pictures.
I'm sorry I missed seeing this at the show.

I won't knock the aesthetics, it's not that rough for a proof-of-concept model. The electronic setup is slick, much cleaner than I would have expected.
I challenge you to find a way to integrate the servo into the box and do away with the shift cables. Button placement should be pretty simple, just give the riders a couple of zip ties and tell them to do it how they see fit.

The rear hub is very clean. I agree that a belt drive would be well suited for this application, but I can see how mounting that on the gearbox would be a challenge. There isn't much room to play with.

If you need any machining help in the future give me a holler. I work in a CNC machine shop, and we are in the bike business. I'd like the opportunity to help.
 

crohnsy

Monkey
Oct 2, 2009
343
0
T Bay
wireless would be fun but I would hate to have batteries in the shifter as well. depending how small or integrated the servo could get running the shift wires internally would be nice and clean. Wire clips to the brake line similar to the Dura ace clip then at the downtube an inconspicuous hole for the wire.

This would be pretty nice for the shifter..


PS. If you need a tester up in the Great White North I call dibs ^^
 
Last edited:

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,445
994
My own world inside my head
How about a way to mount the battery and control board inside the downtube.
That could clean up the look alot, I am sure there is more than a few ways to do that and still keep it servicable.

Or maybe find a way to make the battery.control unit smaller mroe compact and mount it right in front almost part of the gearbox.

I would say though, for the future, I would switch it up to a stepper motor.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,916
18
Over your shoulder whispering
Make the shifter idiot proof and your set. I say devise a single toggle arm that works like the automatic shifter on a Honda Z50. Up shifts up...down shifts down. A single push/pull toggle that returns to the center position like a joystick.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
3,470
1,393
Make the shifter idiot proof and your set. I say devise a single toggle arm that works like the automatic shifter on a Honda Z50. Up shifts up...down shifts down. A single push/pull toggle that returns to the center position like a joystick.
This comment goes really well with your signature! :rofl: :D

Super nice bike BTW!!! But I second the requests for a split pivot design and the separation of the shifters to the left and right side of the handlebar. Or at least make the shifter so you can run it on the left side as well (for all of us moto-style brake lever running nerds).
 

wanabe

Monkey
Mar 16, 2007
177
0
This bike is already becoming a problem. I just had to clean off my key board for the third time.
 

HaveFaith

Monkey
Mar 11, 2006
338
0
THanks guys. Currently packing and getting all the equipment ready for the Red Bull Burner this weekend at Angel Fire. 12hrs of pure shake down at its best!

I'll give a download of how it does this weekend and hopefully some good shots from the racing.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,970
69
Roanoke, VA
The work that Colin has done on this is freaking kickass- all after work, all on his own dime he's managed to get a bike running that even in it's very first iteration was more fun than any other bike I've ever spent time on. Mass centralization and low unsprung weight, combined with good geometry is pheneomenal

I just got my final quotations on running the machine parts for the next batch of protos, which we will hopefully get to cutting tubes on these in November...

By the time the first British NPS round comes along (and hopefully for the SDA winter series) we should have nearly "production" ready team bikes, with final rev "production" frames in time for Sea Otter (at least for the team).

I've been working hard on designing a simple new tubeset, optimizing some of the new machine parts and prepping tacking and mitering fixtures..

Structural engineering is running parallel with our 150mm trail bike(standard drivetrain) development project, and we are applying a lot of the ideas and concepts from one bike to the other a lot lately. The final revision will be Split-Pivot, and between Colin, me, the riders we are working with next year and Weagle, who has the final sign off on the Kinematics, I am pretty damn sure that the suspension is going to be pretty kickass.

Right now I've got no plans to put these in production except for our race team, but as we work to bring a Spooky made Gconn compatible gear box to market, we will offer made to order (and measure) bikes to consumers for an exorbitant price. Our big hold up on this project is CNC capacity, certainly not desire, fabrication ability or finished design. Simply put, if I had $20k to spend on tooling, machine parts and tubing dies, these things could be popping out of the shop every week.

By late '10 we are aiming to offer made to measure complete bikes (including suspension setup for you out of the box, and custom geo tweaks per our discretion for between 8 and ten thousand dollars... Unless you really need one, and then we'll talk...
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,916
18
Over your shoulder whispering
The work that Colin has done on this is freaking kickass- all after work, all on his own dime he's managed to get a bike running that even in it's very first iteration was more fun than any other bike I've ever spent time on. Mass centralization and low unsprung weight, combined with good geometry is pheneomenal

I just got my final quotations on running the machine parts for the next batch of protos, which we will hopefully get to cutting tubes on these in November...

By the time the first British NPS round comes along (and hopefully for the SDA winter series) we should have nearly "production" ready team bikes, with final rev "production" frames in time for Sea Otter (at least for the team).

I've been working hard on designing a simple new tubeset, optimizing some of the new machine parts and prepping tacking and mitering fixtures..

Structural engineering is running parallel with our 150mm trail bike(standard drivetrain) development project, and we are applying a lot of the ideas and concepts from one bike to the other a lot lately. The final revision will be Split-Pivot, and between Colin, me, the riders we are working with next year and Weagle, who has the final sign off on the Kinematics, I am pretty damn sure that the suspension is going to be pretty kickass.

Right now I've got no plans to put these in production except for our race team, but as we work to bring a Spooky made Gconn compatible gear box to market, we will offer made to order (and measure) bikes to consumers for an exorbitant price. Our big hold up on this project is CNC capacity, certainly not desire, fabrication ability or finished design. Simply put, if I had $20k to spend on tooling, machine parts and tubing dies, these things could be popping out of the shop every week.

By late '10 we are aiming to offer made to measure complete bikes (including suspension setup for you out of the box, and custom geo tweaks per our discretion for between 8 and ten thousand dollars... Unless you really need one, and then we'll talk...

My leg went numb from having to read that much at once.:p
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
44,794
10,446
Sleazattle
The electronic shifting can be easily converted to use in high end comfort/commuter bikes as an auto transmission. No use for anyone here but if you wanted to make money...
 

crohnsy

Monkey
Oct 2, 2009
343
0
T Bay
THanks guys. Currently packing and getting all the equipment ready for the Red Bull Burner this weekend at Angel Fire. 12hrs of pure shake down at its best!

I'll give a download of how it does this weekend and hopefully some good shots from the racing.
So how'd the Burner go?
 

HaveFaith

Monkey
Mar 11, 2006
338
0
Hey guys, sorry about the late reply!!

As for the burner, the bike worked well for the entire event. I had some connector issues with the battery which caused me to run single speed for a good portion, but the rear wheel, frame and shifting did work well when all sorted. Ryan and I ended up finishing 6th overall in expert DH with 30 laps, 16 for myself.

Most recently, I have been busing racing the entire Fontana Race series. I have adequately sorted the shifting such that I have had no problems during my race runs and only a couple of hiccups during practice involving water getting into the box. Chalk it up the the $3 Radioshack housing. I finally was able to pull it all together in the final race of the series this last weekend to pull out a win in the Expert 27-35 class. Put me into 2nd overall for the winter series this year. Needless to say, I am still constantly impressed with the control and feel that the combination of low unsprung weight and straightforward shifting has produced. Every race people still ask about the bike and I never tire going over the details.

I will definitely continue to ride and test the setup, mostly to get valuable development info for my own knowledgebase. Also, I will probably be reworking the shift button placement soon enough to make it more ergonomic. Other than that, keep an eye out on the Spooky Bikes front. There may be something coming that you guys should get excited about....

A link to the winter series photos: http://gallery.me.com/colin.godby/100152
 

nelsonjm

Monkey
Feb 16, 2007
709
1
Columbia, MD
Amazing setup, and initiative!

When you get to refining the electronics, I would:
-Change the buttons to point up/down on the shifter
-Auto power off when the cranks haven't been turned for x minutes, and auto power-on when buttons are pressed or you pedal.
-Add battery low light.
-Battery charger

As said it would be nice to integrate it with the gearbox and stick this stuff somewhere that it can be shielded by metal.

For testing purposes, perhaps you could look into a small pelican case in replace of the radioshack one, they should be a bit more weather resistant.
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
3,970
69
Roanoke, VA
I miss the **** out of that bike from the few weeks I got to spend on it.
We really should make some more.
I mean, we have the drawings for the new ones and everything!
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,202
134
so.... 4 years later, what happened?

I loved this project when I first heard about it. General opinion these days seems to be that derailleurs aren't that bad and the gearbox isn't necessary. But I still love the idea of this bike
 

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
8,380
4,034
Exit, CO
I am here to post in this very important thread, four years later, to say this is NOT what I have been waiting for. To be fair, I'm also not entirely sure what I AM waiting for, but this isn't it. ;)
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,202
134
At the time I saw this bike and it was so futuristic, gearbox, electric shifting, plans for a fancy DW split pivot, integrated seat tube on a dh bike....

Now, it's much like monorails, hoverboards and robot butlers, an antiquated vision of the future, very different to how things actually turned out.

I'd like to know more about why it didn't see production though, just money issues? Gearboxes to tricky to obtain and work with? Too busy making 650b xc bikes?
 

HaveFaith

Monkey
Mar 11, 2006
338
0
At the time I saw this bike and it was so futuristic, gearbox, electric shifting, plans for a fancy DW split pivot, integrated seat tube on a dh bike....

Now, it's much like monorails, hoverboards and robot butlers, an antiquated vision of the future, very different to how things actually turned out.

I'd like to know more about why it didn't see production though, just money issues? Gearboxes to tricky to obtain and work with? Too busy making 650b xc bikes?
BACK FROM THE DEAD!!

Hi guys, it has definitely been a long time since I browsed Ridemonkey, or participated in a thread. Long story short on the project is that money problems never saw it progress much further than a few design iterations with Spooky and some help from DW. The project was time consuming and with a lot happening in my real job, I didnt have as much time to flesh it out further.

Sadly, I still think there would be a place for a bike like this, but with another two steps taken forward in shifting and gear box technology. I have toyed with the idea of designing a full CF frame with integrated box and shifting, but that would be pretty good time involved. Who knows though, I have a bit more time outside of work, and I have been itching for another project.

I came back here after the BikeRumor article talking about BlackCatBone and thinking how a lot of the things they have/are working on, I was considering doing 4-5 years ago. Anyways, thanks for the interest, the bike is still rideable, still tons of fun and just needs a new fork to get it back to race pace. Stay tuned, I may revive it before the year is up!

Thanks,

Colin