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The **** is going to hit the fan

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
The US has bombed Canadians, friendly Iraqis, partying afgans (wedding), greeks, brittish and yes... other US units.

Freindly fire happens, why is everyone trying to make this sound like a bigger deal than it is?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Easy man. Staying awake is hard when you're doing something as boring as flying a fighter jet.
And yet doing meth in your car on the way to met a gay prostitute for a prostate massage from his penis is frowned upon...is there no justice in this world?
 

lugnuts

Monkey
May 2, 2002
101
0
maine
During my deployment, the marines at my base had several blue on blue firefights. It happens. It is a result of a lack of communication and it sucks, but it happens. Nothing too scandalous about it.

The thing that really worries me is when two marine units can shoot at each other for five minutes and no one gets hurt!! I mean, thank god no one got hurt. . . .but what does that say about their marksmanship?
 

Secret Squirrel

There is no Justice!
Dec 21, 2004
8,150
1
Up sh*t creek, without a paddle
During my deployment, the marines at my base had several blue on blue firefights. It happens. It is a result of a lack of communication and it sucks, but it happens. Nothing too scandalous about it.

The thing that really worries me is when two marine units can shoot at each other for five minutes and no one gets hurt!! I mean, thank god no one got hurt. . . .but what does that say about their marksmanship?
Maybe they were really good at evading....
 

lugnuts

Monkey
May 2, 2002
101
0
maine
I like to think they were all dodging bullets while shooting back like in the movies.

we all know that good guys can dodge bullets 'till the cows come home.
 

untitledsince89

Turbo Monkey
Nov 11, 2005
1,316
0
Winston-Salem NC
The US has bombed Canadians, friendly Iraqis, partying afgans (wedding), greeks, brittish and yes... other US units.

Freindly fire happens, why is everyone trying to make this sound like a bigger deal than it is?
and because it "happens" it makes it ok right??:shocked:

:disgust: true it does happen, but in a case like this it could have been avoided, trigger happy guys wanting to make a kill. :plthumbsdown: And because of that a soldier was killed, along with others being injured.
 

rapp

Monkey
Sep 30, 2006
185
0
Beaufort, SC
Crap happens, that's life. I had the Army shooting at a convoy I was in while I was in Iraq. There's a lot of stress those pilots are under, and mistakes can happen. There's been a whole lot less friendly fire incidents in this war compared to wars past, just gotta look at the bright side. The pilot coulda took out that whole convoy and there'd be a whole lot more coffins rolling out the back of a plane.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
Since I wasn't in Iraq, can someone tell me if it was common practice for Iraqi military vehicles that have no air cover to paint their rocket launchers orange so the pilots on the other side can see them better?

This is straight negligence, plain and simple. They saw the panels, and talked themselves into the fact that they were rockets. There's some blame to be shared, but they still pulled the trigger...

Here's the radio transcript:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060131,00.html
 

rapp

Monkey
Sep 30, 2006
185
0
Beaufort, SC
The forward air observer said no friendlies in the area, said they were good to engage. Just from hitching a ride in helicopters I can tell you it's hard to tell who's who. And it's not like the pilots jacked it up and didn't care, one of them started crying even. A couple little mistakes turned into one body bag, I've seen a lot worse.
 

Kihaji

Norman Einstein
Jan 18, 2004
398
0
Since I wasn't in Iraq, can someone tell me if it was common practice for Iraqi military vehicles that have no air cover to paint their rocket launchers orange so the pilots on the other side can see them better?

This is straight negligence, plain and simple. They saw the panels, and talked themselves into the fact that they were rockets. There's some blame to be shared, but they still pulled the trigger...

Here's the radio transcript:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007060131,00.html

In the first war, Saddam had mobile mortars disguised as Red Cross trucks. The precedent of enemies camoflaging as friendly is not unheard of. It's not like they will run around with giant "HI I AM ENEMY" signs on.

Also, as a former FO(Forward observer for you civilians, I controlled aircraft, naval gunfire, mortars, and artillery), and having worked with A10's before I can tell you that this stuff does happen, especially when you are talking about multinational forces. The coordination there is horrendous. And if you read the transcript you see the pilots took every avenue that they had available to confirm the identity,

In war, you have to pull the trigger sometime, and yes, sometimes bad things happen.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
So, 15 years ago he used a red cross. That's not relevant.

Were there any reports of orange rocket launchers this time around?
Where there reports of Lou Gherig's disease before Lou Gherig was diagnosed? I doubt it, but that **** got him anyway.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
The US has bombed Canadians, friendly Iraqis, partying afgans (wedding), greeks, brittish and yes... other US units.

Freindly fire happens, why is everyone trying to make this sound like a bigger deal than it is?
They've fired at Greeks? Bastards! ;) **** heads had no biznäz being there anyways.


The big deal isn't friendly fire, this is the upsetting Fing thing and I'm amazed no one has mentioned it yet:

The “top secret” tape has been seen by the Oxfordshire coroner who is holding L/Cpl Hull’s inquest, but both the Ministry of Defence and the US government have REFUSED to let him show it in court.

L/Cpl Hull’s widow Susan, of Wiltshire, was even told it did not exist.

Defence officials insist their hands were tied by a legal pledge with the Pentagon not to reveal any of their secrets. But we can reveal there is NOTHING secret on the tape. But it WILL cause appalling embarrassment.
POPOV36 is known to be a lieutenant colonel, and POPOV35 a major, but their identities have never been released. Neither has the result of a US Air Force inquiry.
If they are covering up stuff like this, what aren't they doing to the Iraqi's and then cover that up? Can I hear an Abu Ghraib?? Rumsfeld and all the rest responsible for this war should trialed in Nürnberg, that includes that mulatto "peace dove" (as he was reported to be by the media just because he wasn't a war mongrer in comparison to the rest of the administration) Colin Powell.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
that includes that mulatto "peace dove" (as he was reported to be by the media just because he wasn't a war mongrer in comparison to the rest of the administration) Colin Powell.
I don't know if you're aware of this (English being a second language) but that's a full on racist comment.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
If they are covering up stuff like this...
It's not that they are covering it up, as far as I know most court martial/disciplinary hearings are not open to the public, especially in a time of war.

All that has happened is people are dragging it into the open to create a media frenzy in order to get "Justice" couchmoneycough.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
I don't know if you're aware of this (English being a second language) but that's a full on racist comment.
There's nothing wrong with that word over here, it is used regularely. To me, mulatta sounds delicious! But I will keep it in mind as I don't want to accidentaly hurt anybody.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
It's not that they are covering it up, as far as I know most court martial/disciplinary hearings are not open to the public, especially in a time of war.

All that has happened is people are dragging it into the open to create a media frenzy in order to get "Justice" couchmoneycough.
Sure, media is making money of of it, and there are sertainly some people that are into selling what ever stories to them. But in this case there is no doubt, they have been lying about it containing "secret" material, and even at first lied about the tape not existing! This is standard prosidure, if things don't get known to the public then they've never happened.

The US isn't interested in justice, they don't want their troops to act as propper soldiers, they are tought that their lives are worth more than people from other countries, and they haven't agreed to having their servisemen being able to be tried by the international war tribunal/court (which to my knowledge all western countries agreed to), while at the same time wanting other nations servicemen to be indited by the same court = better and more worth than other nationalities = übermänsch.
 

lugnuts

Monkey
May 2, 2002
101
0
maine
If they are covering up stuff like this, what aren't they doing to the Iraqi's and then cover that up? Can I hear an Abu Ghraib??
dude, you forgot to mention that marine who shot the wounded bad guy during the Fallujah offensive, those soldiers that raped and killed that girl and her family, um . . .oh, and those marines that went on that rampage and killed a bunch of innocent civilians after their convoy got blown up. Because just like Abu Ghraib, these are not isolated events, they are in fact a true glimpse at the secret war that American troops are actually waging on the Iraqi public. Forget the insurgents, we went over there to kill innocent Iraqis. . . .and the occasional Friendly when we get bored.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
There's nothing wrong with that word over here, it is used regularely. To me, mulatta sounds delicious! But I will keep it in mind as I don't want to accidentaly hurt anybody.
what do you call your resident black people?

we call our sicilians & caribeaners "african americans", but not teresa heinz (kerry), who was born in africa (mozambique).
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
The US isn't interested in justice, they don't want their troops to act as propper soldiers, they are tought that their lives are worth more than people from other countries, and they haven't agreed to having their servisemen being able to be tried by the international war tribunal/court (which to my knowledge all western countries agreed to), while at the same time wanting other nations servicemen to be indited by the same court = better and more worth than other nationalities = übermänsch.
No - they are just not interested in advertising their mistakes to the world. And who is?

As for the soldiers being taught their lives are more important... what do you want to teach them? To wait until they are shot befoire acting. So sit and wait for the enemy to ID themselves before engaging?

Not real clear on the concept of a war are you...
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
we went over there to kill innocent Iraqis. . .
Hello, this is Reality looking at Irony and laughing back at you. :wave:

what do you call your resident black people?

we call our sicilians & caribeaners "african americans", but not teresa heinz (kerry), who was born in africa (mozambique).
We call them Africans or blacks or coloured.

Well then you have something in common with Lega Nord. Dunno Tereza. The wife of John Kerry?

No - they are just not interested in advertising their mistakes to the world. And who is?

As for the soldiers being taught their lives are more important... what do you want to teach them? To wait until they are shot befoire acting. So sit and wait for the enemy to ID themselves before engaging?

Not real clear on the concept of a war are you...
It's not that simple. It's as evil as the very politics they are conducting.

That all lives are worth the same and that all people are equal, perhaps? I expect them to open fire on all cars closing in on their road blocks and not allow people any rights in their own country. :disgust1: There are clear similarities between US world conquest policies, and its views on people of other nations to zie Totenkopfs.

No I stay clear of it, unless you bring it to me and then I'll probably be called a terrorist for DEFENDING me and my country or maybe if I'm too old I'll be lucky enough to get killed in your road block.
 

rapp

Monkey
Sep 30, 2006
185
0
Beaufort, SC
We have something called positive I.D. as the rules of engagement. Yes, they have been broken in isolated incidents, but think how many shots haven't been fired at Iraqis because they couldn't be 100% confirmed to be hostile. I've held off on a few shots while I was over there because of it. US troops, at least 99% of them, don't want to go and kill every Iraqi they see. Taking someone's life isn't something to take lightly, and most of us servicemembers don't want to but have to so we can come home to our families.
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
We have something called positive I.D. as the rules of engagement. Yes, they have been broken in isolated incidents, but think how many shots haven't been fired at Iraqis because they couldn't be 100% confirmed to be hostile. I've held off on a few shots while I was over there because of it. US troops, at least 99% of them, don't want to go and kill every Iraqi they see. Taking someone's life isn't something to take lightly, and most of us servicemembers don't want to but have to so we can come home to our families.
Don't waste your energy on Rockwool - he's the polar opposite of n8.

n8 is far far far right, rockwool is far far far left.

Neither one will every listen to logic or reason, they have their own pre-determined idea of how things are and nothing will change them.
 

lugnuts

Monkey
May 2, 2002
101
0
maine
Don't waste your energy on Rockwool - he's the polar opposite of n8.

n8 is far far far right, rockwool is far far far left.

Neither one will every listen to logic or reason, they have their own pre-determined idea of how things are and nothing will change them.
yeah, i was about to argue some more, but now I see its pointless.

So back to the topic at hand, it sure sucks that Brit got killed.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
We have something called positive I.D. as the rules of engagement. Yes, they have been broken in isolated incidents, but think how many shots haven't been fired at Iraqis because they couldn't be 100% confirmed to be hostile. I've held off on a few shots while I was over there because of it. US troops, at least 99% of them, don't want to go and kill every Iraqi they see. Taking someone's life isn't something to take lightly, and most of us servicemembers don't want to but have to so we can come home to our families.
I don't know if you was adressing me but if you were, I wasn't one of them that argued that friendly fire is the sadest thing since Sleeping Beauty laid to sleep. It is a thing that happens.

If you was adressing me about soldiers being the bad guys in this, reread my posts and take notice on the subjects I brought up, among them one was from that article in the first post, and you will see that these issues are a bit higher up on the scale from 200,000 GI's and their officers.

I don't expect you guys to emediately understand what I mean with that there exists an übermänsh mentality in the US. We are all "home blind" to some things, in this case a national thinking pattern, because they are the norm around us. I have friends from Ireland and the UK living here and they have many times pointed out some stuff that I previously havent thought of, and in some cases still can't see.

Some things have to be experianced to be understood. In this case you might have to get to know another society by living there for a few years and living like and with that countrys people.

Things like Abu Ghraib (to take just one good example) wouldn't have been possible if there wasn't an übermench mentality. In this case I don't think them soldiers were half as bad as the guys giving the orders, of which Rumsfelt was their initiatior. That whole place was run by the CIA and Janis Karpinski was just a front, out ranked in authority by them who came with the night fall...

You should read one of her several interviews that she gave to get a better understanding of what was going on there and everywhere, aswell what I've been trying to point out with my posts.
Here's one of them interviews:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/26/1423248

AMY GOODMAN: Now, Colonel Pappas ran the prison within the prison, is that right? He ran something called the “hard site”?

COL. JANIS KARPINSKI: He ran the interrogation operations within the prison, that's correct. And it was -- Cell Block 1A and 1B were the two maximum security wings of the hard site, and during General Miller's visit, either at his order or at his request, General Miller told -- instructed Colonel Pappas to get control of Cell Block 1A.
Great, US's equivalent to Himmler was of Greek heritatge... :disgust:

Don't waste your energy on Rockwool - he's the polar opposite of n8.

n8 is far far far right, rockwool is far far far left.

Neither one will every listen to logic or reason, they have their own pre-determined idea of how things are and nothing will change them.
That is quite an observation from you, I am the political direction polar opposite from N8. I didn't think you was capable of that advanced abstract thinking. You proved me wrong! But unfortunately, the fact that I actually participate in a discussion, and try to show my logic in comming to my conclussions, and often back them with facts, was totally missed by your logical way of reasoning.

With great hope that you'll change. Since YOU can...
 

bac

Monkey
Dec 14, 2006
174
0
Pennsylvania
We have something called positive I.D. as the rules of engagement. Yes, they have been broken in isolated incidents, but think how many shots haven't been fired at Iraqis because they couldn't be 100% confirmed to be hostile. I've held off on a few shots while I was over there because of it. US troops, at least 99% of them, don't want to go and kill every Iraqi they see. Taking someone's life isn't something to take lightly, and most of us servicemembers don't want to but have to so we can come home to our families.
Good post. Friendly fire is just one of the many ugly byproducts of war. That's why war should be avoided in all but the most dire situations. A point missed badly by this administration.

I have more empathy for the hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis. It's odd that the conservative, Jesus folks seem to only care about American lives. From what I hear of this Jesus guy, he wouldn't be very impressed with the mass killings of his children.

God bless America.