[springfield1911]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4202629.stm

If y'all think the Iraqi prison problems were outrageous, let's see what the peace loving japanese government is doing on its past record. Military brothels...

I feel sympathetic to those women. I only wish they can have peace in heaven, since the japanese are not likely to do anything to repent themselves in the life time of the vivtims.

 

[Toshi]

although i think the japanese government's official silence is egregious, the overall scope of their efforts at reparation are comparable to that of the u.s. with regard to internment of japanese-americans during wwii: http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/ . $20k.

furthermore please restrict your comments to the japanese GOVERNMENT, not japanese in general. thanks.

 

[springfield1911]

although i think the japanese government's official silence is egregious, the overall scope of their efforts at reparation are comparable to that of the u.s. with regard to internment of japanese-americans during wwii: http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/ . $20k.

furthermore please restrict your comments to the japanese GOVERNMENT, not japanese in general. thanks.

yes Toshi, the United States Government rounded up the Japanese American women, sent them to military brothels in Europe to be raped by the GI's every night...... :

And yes, Toshi, the US government massacred millions of people in Asia, used the local people as chemical and biological weapons test guinea pigs, and ecouraged its soldiers to cut open people with their offically issued samurai swords.

yeah we interned the Japanese Americans, but compared to what the Japanese did to their occupied region, we treated the JApanesee Americans like royalty.

Heck, even the Germans apologized and legally prohibited anything Nazis advocated, such as the swastika, the salute, and anything that's associated with the National Socialists.

The Japanese? They put the names of the war criminals in that one shrine and the government officials go there every year to pay homage. So NO TOSHI THEY HAVEN"T LEARNED TO RESPECT THE VALUE OF THE DEAD HUMAN BEINGS OF OTHER NATIONS

Jesus Christ, dude, don't get all defensive just because you are half Japanese and all...

 

[Toshi]

yes, there is a shrine that the prime minister visits each year. each year there is an uproar about this visit, both within and outside japanese society. it's not like all japanese march in lockstep.

 

[mack]

And in Vietnam their is a picture of John Kerry as a communist supporter, dont know if thats true for sure, but sounds damn accurate because he did meet with communist leaders in France.

And Toshi, the country is a nation, and can be refered to as one. A nation and its people are responsable for its actions.

 

[springfield1911]

But they accept it as the normal, no?

What do we call people that think it is okay to worship Hitler's statue? A Nazi sympathizer

What do we say when about a society that think it's okay for the head of their state to worship and pay respect to the criminals that caused the death and agony of millions of people of an entire continent? It didn;'t learn its lesson.

What do you think the American publican would say if President Bush went to pay respect to the people responsible for the death of the Native Americans? trust me, there would be a lot more anger and criticism.

But then again, the Japanese sense of militarism and ultra-nationalism make the patriotism of an NRA member look like watered down version of the International Song.

 

[springfield1911]

And Toshi, the country is a nation, and can be refered to as one. A nation and its people are responsable for its actions.

Thank you mack. I thought I was fighting this one alone here....

TOshi:

If the Japanese are ready to come to terms with their past, why in hell do they not include these grusome details in the textbooks for their next generations, eh? why do they keep calling th invasion of other soverign nations "advance", and try to ignore as much of the real numbers as possible? So people like you would not understand the full extent of the damage that is done to other people, and that to the average japanese citizen, ultra-nationalism never harmed anyone who didn't deserve it.

THe day the school children in Japan are taught that their forefathers raped, tortured, burned, robbed, massacred their way through Asia to gather much of the capitla that became of what the Japanese economic success story was based on, they would not allow their officials to do things like that.

Until then, I consider the Japanese still unaware of what they need to know...

 

[Changleen]

How old are you Springfield?

 

[mack]

Exactly. You can join the common sense club with me and N8, its really fun.

EDIT: Changleen, you cannot join :eviltongu

 

[mack]

<snip> the Japanese sense of militarism and ultra-nationalism make the patriotism of an NRA member look like watered down version of the International Song.

Good analogy there!

 

[valve bouncer]

But they accept it as the normal, no?

What do we call people that think it is okay to worship Hitler's statue? A Nazi sympathizer

What do we say when about a society that think it's okay for the head of their state to worship and pay respect to the criminals that caused the death and agony of millions of people of an entire continent? It didn;'t learn its lesson.

What do you think the American publican would say if President Bush went to pay respect to the people responsible for the death of the Native Americans? trust me, there would be a lot more anger and criticism.

But then again, the Japanese sense of militarism and ultra-nationalism make the patriotism of an NRA member look like watered down version of the International Song.

Springfield, without googling, tell me what you know about Yasukuni shrine?

 

[springfield1911]

It's located in Tokyo, has thousand of names on its sriptions, which include many war criminals such as the prime minister Tojo of Japan during the time of the war and many of its top generals. The prime miinisters, such as Koizumi, visited there last year with full respect, and many right wing JApanese nationalists gather there periodically in WWII era uniforms and try to act like it was all about honor and glory.

That much I do know without googling. I learned my history the good old fashion way. Rading

 

[Changleen]

EDIT: Changleen, you cannot join :eviltongu

Woried I might give away the location of your secret den?

 

[springfield1911]

How old are you Springfield?

Old enough to know that you live far, far away from reality.

 

[mack]

Woried I might give away the location of your secret den?

Eh, i live in the attic, and im listed!!!

 

[Changleen]

Old enough to know that you live far, far away from reality.

Yet still not old enough to spell correctly?

 

[Skookum]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4202629.stm

If y'all think the Iraqi prison problems were outrageous, let's see what the peace loving japanese government is doing on its past record. Military brothels...

I feel sympathetic to those women. I only wish they can have peace in heaven, since the japanese are not likely to do anything to repent themselves in the life time of the vivtims.

Haha dude you hate a country and people, you're funny.....

 

[valve bouncer]

It's located in Tokyo, has thousand of names on its sriptions, which include many war criminals such as the prime miinister Tojo of Japan during the time of the war and many of its top generals. The priminister, such as Koizumi, visited there last year with full respect, and many right wing JApanese nationalists gather there periodically in WWII era uniforms and try to act like it was all about honor and glory.

That much I do know without googling. I learned my history the good old fashion way. Rading

Yasukuni actually has millions of names. It's the official resting place of all Japanese war dead since Meiji times, not just WW2. Even though I do feel Koizumi is wrong for visiting there, to suggest that he is paying respects to the architects of the war in the Pacific is quite wrong. He is paying respect to the Japanese war dead. There has been talk of disinterring the class A war criminals that reside there and putting them some place else. I hope they do it as that would solve the problem.
The right-wing in Japan is indeed active. It's closely aligned with the Yakuza as well as with certain factions of the LDP. The origins of this unholy trinity can be traced back to the post WW2 occupation. The allies used right wing interests as a bulwark against communism. At that time the spread of communism was a bigger concern for the allies than seeking contrition from Japan. This resulted in the entrenchment of LDP (conservative) rule in Japan. So therefore we can blame the Americans for the present situation. :eviltongu

 

[evilbob]

..........furthermore please restrict your comments to the japanese GOVERNMENT, not japanese in general. thanks.

I would have to agree with Toshi on this, myself not being Japannese but my Mother in law is full not part. Because of my family relations over the last 25 years I have met and had indepth conversations with Japanese people on both sides of the coin. Some who where in US camps because they lived here and others who at the time were enemies of the US. As individuals I have seen nothing but remorse about the things you are angry over and I still respect their pride of nationalism. Their Gov. on the other hand like most including mine, tend to play politics when for the most part a simple SORRY at some point would do wonders. Sorry won't put things back and won't fix all but it is a good start. In defense of their Gov, you really need to learn their history very well before you speak poorly of them. If you do understand their history then you would unerstand why their Gov. will most likely never officialy say sorry or apologize. I read the artical you linked to that started this and noticed that the Japanese Gov. did start a fund to atone for some things and that some refused to take part in the fund. They wanted dirrect payout. Hey life doesn't allways support the way a specifc individual/s wants. The fund was there for those who applied and some who could have chose not to. Now the intent of the fund is going to be complete for those that applied, the ones who chose to not apply chose to get nothing. I am sorry for what happened to them but for the ones who chose to get nothing, atleast somebody tried. Oh by the way, that fund was started because some Japanese people wanted it. Yes there were horrible things done, by all sides, I have had stories told to me by my dad who served on the USS Wasp and my uncle who was a tank commander in Europe. War is never a civil or right thing no matter who you think the good guys are in the end. All sides in a war tend to do things that nobody is particularly proud of. I think most of mankind would do much better if we all would quit pointing backwards and expecting the children of today and the future to say sorry and atone for the actions of the past. Might be better if we all collectivly looked at the lessons of the past (good, bad or ugly) and progress into the future wiser for those moments not still at odds with one another because we can't let go of them.

 

[Silver]

And Toshi, the country is a nation, and can be refered to as one. A nation and its people are responsable for its actions.

Unless you're American, because you have no idea what your country has done or is doing, that is...

 

[evilbob]

Unless you're American, because you have no idea what your country has done or is doing, that is...

I don't think that is a completly correct comment. Politics for the most part is such an overscaled process that it doen't matter who you are in what ever country. Be you the most insignificant individual or the leader of a nation the best you can do is only be aware of some of the pieces of you countries political activities. For the individual minding his/her own life only the most visible Gov. actions are seen but with out knowledge of the details that really lead to such activities and no controle. At the very top you get people in controle of those activities based on detailed info from individual sources that don't always have all the details or sometimes cause them to be miss interpreted. It doesn't matter if you are American, that is just the way it is no matter where you call home. And if you believe you are more informed than others in some other land, well you might just be....or not.

 

[ummbikes]

the Japanese just never learns

Sadly the American just never learns how to write.

It's debate, how can anyone take what you have to say seriously when you can't be bothered to proof read your posts? I'm no advocate for total spelling/grammer fascisim, but the title of this thread is just ugly to read.

Options that read easier:

"The Japanese still have not learned."

"Will the Japenese ever learn?"

"Japanese, still shorter, but better at manufacturing than we are."

As for your point; the Japanese culture values their ancestors, and the shrine is one way in which that value is shown. The Japanese government was involved in some atrocities, history has shown that. It is easy to judge the situation, harder to understand, and at this point why bother?

As a completely unrelated side note, I have a .35 Whelen built from a Springfield 30.06 . It now has a Winchester type safety, and a Timney trigger. The barrel is balanced and floated. It's a nice rifle, it just needs a better stock and it will be perfect.

 

[blue]

Because the US has NEVER hurt anyone and not owned up to it, you know.

Leave this bigoted bullcrap out of this place. Go home.

 

[evilbob]

As a completely unrelated side note, I have a .35 Whelen built from a Springfield 30.06 . It now has a Winchester type safety, and a Timney trigger. The barrel is balanced and floated. It's a nice rifle, it just needs a better stock and it will be perfect.

Very nice, post it when you get it restocked, I'd like to see it.

 

[springfield1911]

Hmm....so almost no one here feels bad for the poor women who suffered every second of their captivity......amazing. I find it facinating how the issue is completely ignored, and people like changleen simply uses "you are old enough to type but not old enough to...." as his argument.

I came to realize that this is a good place for America bashers, foreign as well as domestic. And the second I criticize a foreign country on their inhumane acts of the past and I get told left and right. Simply amazing.

I still like to point out that unlike the japanese, our governemnt never organized governemnt sponsored, forced prostitution of women from occupied area for the troops. In the most part, We condemn war criminals rather than glorify them, and that fortunately, Mafia in our country has not yet gained much influence on our businesses and governemnt, not yet. And we never allowed our troops to kill 250,000 people in one single city in the name of "celebration". The Japanese has, and this recent development does not help my opinion of these people/government.

If you folks want to question my age, maturity, historical knowledge, fine. Be my guest. But the way you ignored the main theme of my original post sickens me.

this is why America is going into a state of decline, because so many of us are so eager to think on behalf of the true barbarian when they encounter agendas different from their own. Shame on those of you. And the foreign ones? well, I'll just keep my mouth shut, because I don't enjoy being banned for speaking my mind.

 

[Silver]

Well, they may be some reasons for not getting worked up about Japan right now...any idea what those could be?

You don't like Nips, we get it. You're not going to get banned from RM for this, I wouldn't worry about that. You will get tossed onto the "frother" pile, I'm afraid...

 

[Ridemonkey]

I read all your posts in this thread and I still can't tell what the hell you are talking about.

Hmm....so almost no one here feels bad for the poor women who suffered every second of their captivity......amazing. I find it facinating how the issue is completely ignored, and people like changleen simply uses "you are old enough to type but not old enough to...." as his argument.

I came to realize that this is a good place for America bashers, foreign as well as domestic. And the second I criticize a foreign country on their inhumane acts of the past and I get told left and right. Simply amazing.

I still like to point out that unlike the japanese, our governemnt never organized governemnt sponsored, forced prostitution of women from occupied area for the troops. In the most part, We condemn war criminals rather than glorify them, and that fortunately, Mafia in our country has not yet gained much influence on our businesses and governemnt, not yet. And we never allowed our troops to kill 250,000 people in one single city in the name of "celebration". The Japanese has, and this recent development does not help my opinion of these people/government.

If you folks want to question my age, maturity, historical knowledge, fine. Be my guest. But the way you ignored the main theme of my original post sickens me.

this is why America is going into a state of decline, because so many of us are so eager to think on behalf of the true barbarian when they encounter agendas different from their own. Shame on those of you. And the foreign ones? well, I'll just keep my mouth shut, because I don't enjoy being banned for speaking my mind.

 

[sanjuro]

Let no one get on their high horse and start pointing fingers. If you name a country, I can name someone they exploited (Luxemborg, Nepal, Belize, and Monaco is excluded). America is high on the list of exploitation for African-Americans and Indians.

But frankly, the Japanese have a somewhat spotty record when it comes to women. Watch any R-rated Manga and you can see. Unfortunately, this seems to roll right into poor image.

This does not apply to any Japanese-Americans or other Asian groups. As a Chinese-American, it is not like I can hang my head proud on China's human rights record. But I am an American, so I worry about our problems.

 

[Ridemonkey]

But I am an American, so I worry about our problems.

Amen brother. It seems that "being American" to the ignorant in this country is to latch on to some past event staged by some government that no longer exist and use that as an excuse to promote racism and xenophobia. That's not my America, Red!

 

[ummbikes]

\
I still like to point out that unlike the japanese, our governemnt never organized governemnt sponsored, forced prostitution of women from occupied area for the troops.

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty sure there are some women in Saigon who would take issue with that.

Frother, that's a funny term.

 

[Damn True]

What is often left out of recolections about Japanese internments is that Roosavelt had a change of heart on the matter a couple years into the war and released them and even allowed many of the men to join the fight in Europe and Asia. One of said former internees wound up being a US senator I think it was Daniel Inoye (not 100%) sure.
While it dosen't make up for the internment in the first place which was short sighted at the very least it does illustrate that history is not always written by the victors.

 

[Silver]

Frother, that's a funny term.

I think credit for that one goes to valvebouncer...

 

[Changleen]

"Japanese, still shorter, but better at manufacturing than we are."

ROFLMFAO! Excellent!

 

[Toshi]

What is often left out of recolections about Japanese internments is that Roosavelt had a change of heart on the matter a couple years into the war and released them and even allowed many of the men to join the fight in Europe and Asia.

and then the families felt that not only had america shunned them in their time of need, but also would send their boys away to die. of course the men wanted to go. after being in such a position all you could do is try to prove yourself.

springfield, i and everyone else has sympathy for the "pleasure workers" of wwii. that was a horrible act, and other nations' actions don't excuse it. however, the government has tried to make good and yet all you can focus on is one shrine, and you damn a whole people of whom you know only a handful of things about for it.

 

[Changleen]

Hmm....so almost no one here feels bad for the poor women who suffered every second of their captivity......amazing.

No, that's not right, but it happened 50+ years ago, and there are more pressing abuses of a similar magnitude happening right now.

I find it facinating how the issue is completely ignored, and people like changleen simply uses "you are old enough to type but not old enough to...." as his argument.

Actually, I was asking how old you are. How old are you? I ask this as I was wondering if you were a WWII combatant. Sometimes, a hat is just a hat.

I came to realize that this is a good place for America bashers, foreign as well as domestic. And the second I criticize a foreign country on their inhumane acts of the past and I get told left and right. Simply amazing.

The key phrase there was 'past'. There are very few Japanese alive today who could be even partially blamed for these actions. Children are not responsible for the crimes of their ancestors.

I still like to point out that unlike the japanese, our governemnt never organized governemnt sponsored, forced prostitution of women from occupied area for the troops.

Although you did nuke 2 cities full of innocent people, hundreds of thousands of whom died very slow highly painful deaths over many years... which is worse?

In the most part, We condemn war criminals rather than glorify them,

Except when you RE-ELECT them as your President...

and that fortunately, Mafia in our country has not yet gained much influence on our businesses and governemnt, not yet.

No, you have Haliburton instead.

And we never allowed our troops to kill 250,000 people in one single city in the name of "celebration".

So using 2 nuclear devices on Japan after they had offered to surrender is nothing like that your book?

The Japanese has,

"have", retard.

and this recent development does not help my opinion of these people/government.

Did you only start watching the news this year? Jeeze...

If you folks want to question my age, maturity, historical knowledge, fine. Be my guest. But the way you ignored the main theme of my original post sickens me.

Well, when you'd rather discuss a historical atrocity of an old enemy half a world away than face the facts of your current administration's evildoing, then one has to question your motives.

this is why America is going into a state of decline, because so many of us are so eager to think on behalf of the true barbarian when they encounter agendas different from their own. Shame on those of you. And the foreign ones? well, I'll just keep my mouth shut, because I don't enjoy being banned for speaking my mind.

No, it's because 51% are so stupid and ignorant you voted for a moron. Duh.

 

[genpowell71]

No, that's not right, but it happened 50+ years ago, and there are more pressing abuses of a similar magnitude happening right now. Actually, I was asking how old you are. How old are you? I ask this as I was wondering if you were a WWII combatant. Sometimes, a hat is just a hat.The key phrase there was 'past'. There are very few Japanese alive today who could be even partially blamed for these actions. Children are not responsible for the crimes of their ancestors.Although you did nuke 2 cities full of innocent people, hundreds of thousands of whom died very slow highly painful deaths over many years... which is worse? Except when you RE-ELECT them as your President... No, you have Haliburton instead. So using 2 nuclear devices on Japan after they had offered to surrender is nothing like that your book?"have", retard.Did you only start watching the news this year? Jeeze...Well, when you'd rather discuss a historical atrocity of an old enemy half a world away than face the facts of your current administration's evildoing, then one has to question your motives.
No, it's because 51% are so stupid and ignorant you voted for a moron. Duh.

:nuts:

 

[Changleen]

:nuts:

Best respone ever. You're lucky :nuts: happens to be over 5 characters. Do you have a point are are you just a looser with a AOL account?

 

[valve bouncer]

. In the most part, We condemn war criminals rather than glorify them, and that fortunately, Mafia in our country has not yet gained much influence on our businesses and governemnt, not yet.

.

You keep repeating this as if it is true. I have pointed out what Yasukuni is but you make out that Koizumi is putting Chrysanthenums on Tojo's grave whenever he visits. Not true. Show me how the Japanese government glorifies war criminals. I have no love for the LDP but to say they glorify war criminals is a joke.

 

[genpowell71]

Best respone ever. You're lucky :nuts: happens to be over 5 characters. Do you have a point are are you just a looser with a AOL account?

Only 1 o in loser.

 

[Changleen]

Only 1 o in loser.

You'd know.