[TrumbullHucker]

hello people.
I've always had the urge to ride as fast and in control as i could( who doesn't ) on a dh trail with or without berms, and off-camber turns. The one thing that keeps me on the brakes when i know i don't have to be, is that i don't trust my tires! Does anyone else have this issue?
I have 2.7 slow-reezay in the front, and 2.5 minion DHF. It most likely has nothing to do with whatever bike i have, or tire; Its all mental.
Any tips? or maybe someone can mock me so i can go faster?

 

[AngryBeaver]

Hey Bud

2.7 is pretty wide! How much do you weigh out of interest? I'm pretty sure that if your not that heavy, you wont really need a tire that wide? i may be wrong? Also, it would be pretty poor in wet conditions too!

But, as you say, its mental! i know my tires can hold me, yet sometimes I can lose the trust! No need...

Greg

 

[norbar]

Practice and finding some safe place for a comfortable drift there is a good idea.

Also don't know bout your bar width but 760 flat bars greately helped me in terms of confidence.

 

[-BB-]

The thing holding you back si the same thing that holds me back, and most people for that matter.

FEAR

Only way to get over that is to practice and practice... get a little out of your confort range every time. Yeah, I know it is much easier to say this than do it. If it weren't, I'd be a Pro by now. Instead I'm a Pro-WUSS.

 

[S.K.C.]

I have the same problem and there is basically a long and short answer to this. The short answer is: It just comes with lots of saddle time and practice.

...but here is what I do to try and get used to my tires:

Find a very familiar section of a relatively FLAT(not steep), WIDE, SMOOTH trail that doesn't have anything dangerous on it such as trees or boulders. Pick a corner that you like that doesn't have any of these dangerous features around it and push the traction limit at SLOW speed until you slide out (jogging speed). WEAR YOUR ARMOR AND YOUR HELMET (full face - but this goes w/o saying) - especially your elbow pads, knee pads and some shin guards.

Experiment with your lean angle and speed. Learn to adjust your speed with braking before entering the corner. Stay off the brakes in the corner and know that as the tires slide they will be scrubbing speed (slowing you down). Learn to judge your speed entering it and expect yourself to be washing out and know how to safely lay the bike over as you slide out. Put out a foot, let it barely skim the ground as you slide the corner and when you start too loose speed and feel like you are coming to a stop - get ready to use that foot to keep you upright. Stay on the bike, and let it slide out.

Try to control the slide evenly between the front and rear (using your brakes to adjust front/rear balance) - That's why you should be GOING SLOW. You may discover that at slow speed it is REALLY hard to get the bike to slide. That's fine. Just listen and feel the tires as they struggle for traction. If the rear slides out first - you'll get launched off the back. If the front slides out first you'll go down hard on your face and/or shoulder. Let the tires break loose EVENLY between the front and rear and let it slide. Keeping the slide EVEN is key - the front and rear should be sliding at the same time. Do this in an area where you won't be hitting anything. Watch the section with Peaty and The Don from DIRT Mag's "Fundamentals" DVD. Don lays it over in a corner after pushing it too hard and Peaty commends him for it (pushing the limits that is).

If I can't get to the trail - I'll rip a bit out on a soccer field. The surface won't be comparable to an actual trail but try to find some exposed dirt and rail some flat turns. Don't try to get a feel for traction on the grass - you'll slide suddenly and unpredicatably all over the place and get hurt. If you can find a field with some downward sloping run-in - even better. Other times I'll go out to the local paved jogging trail, look for some dirt off of a corner and do the same there.

Gradually crank up the speed until you can start to feel the moment where the tires begin to break loose - BUT don't push it beyond that point on purpose to dump it like before. At this stage just learn to feel for that sensation of "traction" making the transition to "slide" and then holding on and staying in control. Once you find that point get comfy with it. The key is to practice in the exact same spot over and over so the terrain is fairly consistent.

...so that covers DIRT... for rocks, wet conditions, different types of dirt, it's pretty much a test session of figuring out where that traction limit is.

FORGOT to mention:

Proper cornering technique:

THE APPROACH
As you enter a turn, adjust your entry speed to match the corner. Ask yourself these questions. Is it banked? Flat? Off-camber? Does the radius change?
If the turn is banked, you need to brake a lot less than if it is off-camber. The more the outside of the turn is angled in your favor, the more tire you will have on the ground, and the more traction you will get. The reverse applies for an off-camber turn.
If the radius is tight, set up quickly, be prepared to apply the brakes and move to the front of the bike. If the radius is wide, don’t use too much braking, select the smoothest line and don’t position yourself too far forward.

SURFACE CONDITIONS
Once you have read the turn and are braking properly, look at the dirt. Is it hard and slippery, soft and slippery, soft and tacky, rough and tacky, or something else entirely? Evaluating the surface helps determine weight distribution.
Hard: If the turn is slippery, lean forward to get maximum front-wheel traction.
Soft: If it’s soft, lean back to counterbalance deceleration.
Tacky: If it’s tacky, ride with your weight in the middle of the bike.
Rough: When the ground is rough, stay back and follow the bike. Let the bike bounce around underneath you.

When two conditions are combined in the same turn, simply adapt the best technique for dealing with the corner’s specifics. For example, if it’s rough and slippery, it’s best to keep your weight in the middle of the bike. Yes, it is a compromise between being forward on slippery dirt and back on rough dirt, but it offers you the ability to adjust quickly.
What should you do if you enter the perfect turn—one that is soft and tacky? Keep your weight to the back of the bike and lean into the turn instead of steering. The closer to perfect a corner is, the easier it is to carry speed through it. Cornering faster saves precious energy. On a long ride, these savings help increase your overall speed—and endurance—dramatically.

WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR FEETShould you keep your foot on the pedal or take it off? Do whatever you want, but here are the rules of thumb.
Foot-out: Taking your inside foot off the pedal (motocross-style) is the easiest way to turn when first starting out. With your foot hanging out, you can use it as a rudder when you get in trouble. The conditions will dictate what you do with your feet. If the turn is tacky, put your inside foot forward, plant it, keep it forward, lean back and sit down. As you exit the turn, pull the foot as you straighten your body.

In slippery conditions, put your foot out as you enter the turn, but don’t stick it forward. Instead, hold the foot in line with your body. That way, if the rear wheel breaks loose, you can dab your foot on the ground or use it as a rudder by turning your toe inward and letting your leg slide towards the back of the bike to counteract the slide.

If the turn is rough, your foot should hover just above the ground, acting as a counterbalance. This should aid you in keeping the wheels from breaking loose, but if they do break free, you can always dab your foot to keep from going down.

Feet-up: Once you understand when to put your foot out, you can begin to leave it on the pedals. You might corner faster with your foot out, but you will accelerate out of the corner faster with your feet up.
The biggest difference between being clipped in and being clipped out is how your weight is distributed. When clipped in, the only counterbalance you can produce is the weight of your inside knee and elbow sticking out. To get maximum traction, try using your outside knee and elbow to push down on the bike. This will enhance your ability to get traction. Forward-and-back weight distribution should stay the same whether you are clipped in or not.

Press down on the inside grip (end of bars which are on the inside of the turn. If turning left - put a bit of weight on the left grip)

 

[Nick]

I haven't much to add, other than "Trust Your Tires" is a mantra my friends and I repeat often!!! I seemed to get faster in turns after learning more about weight transfer from my moto-racing brother. The feeling of a 'controlled' drift is pretty darn cool.

 

[DiRt DeViL]

I thought that I was the only one with this problem, doesn't matter the brand, compound or size I never trust my tires and I'm almost always on the brakes "trying" to control what I'm doing. Was also running DHF 2.7s up front and never felt that I had traction, tried 2.5 and 2.3 and the feeling was the same; guess that most of it is mental.

What SKC suggests sounds great but without pics or video am having a hard time figuring out how to corner slowly.

 

[S.K.C.]

I thought that I was the only one with this problem, doesn't matter the brand, compound or size I never trust my tires and I'm almost always on the brakes "trying" to control what I'm doing. Was also running DHF 2.7s up front and never felt that I had traction, tried 2.5 and 2.3 and the feeling was the same; guess that most of it is mental.

What SKC suggests sounds great but without pics or video am having a hard time figuring out how to corner slowly.

Sorry - I'll try and put up some pics tonight.

As for taking it slow in a corner - just come into it with less speed! (say a decent jogging speed)

 

[gfisher270]

i was slow at dh at first but then i started getting faster and building my confidence. then i switched to wider bars and that helped. you could do these things but to really get faster try to ride with fast people that helped me a lot .

 

[Kanye West]

Rip around a baseball diamond hitting each corner later and faster and cleaner until you get dizzy. Then go the other way. Eat sh*t once in a while, and get comfortable being on the edge - comfortable enough that you almost never flinch.

 

[norbar]

I have the same problem and there is basically a long and short answer to this. The short answer is: It just comes with lots of saddle time and practice.

...but here is what I do to try and get used to my tires:

Find a very familiar section of a relatively FLAT(not steep), WIDE, SMOOTH trail that doesn't have anything dangerous on it such as trees or boulders. Pick a corner that you like that doesn't have any of these dangerous features around it and push the traction limit at SLOW speed until you slide out (jogging speed). WEAR YOUR ARMOR AND YOUR HELMET (full face - but this goes w/o saying) - especially your elbow pads, knee pads and some shin guards.

Experiment with your lean angle and speed. Learn to adjust your speed with braking before entering the corner. Stay off the brakes in the corner and know that as the tires slide they will be scrubbing speed (slowing you down). Learn to judge your speed entering it and expect yourself to be washing out and know how to safely lay the bike over as you slide out. Put out a foot, let it barely skim the ground as you slide the corner and when you start too loose speed and feel like you are coming to a stop - get ready to use that foot to keep you upright. Stay on the bike, and let it slide out.

Try to control the slide evenly between the front and rear (using your brakes to adjust front/rear balance) - That's why you should be GOING SLOW. You may discover that at slow speed it is REALLY hard to get the bike to slide. That's fine. Just listen and feel the tires as they struggle for traction. If the rear slides out first - you'll get launched off the back. If the front slides out first you'll go down hard on your face and/or shoulder. Let the tires break loose EVENLY between the front and rear and let it slide. Keeping the slide EVEN is key - the front and rear should be sliding at the same time. Do this in an area where you won't be hitting anything. Watch the section with Peaty and The Don from DIRT Mag's "Fundamentals" DVD. Don lays it over in a corner after pushing it too hard and Peaty commends him for it (pushing the limits that is).

If I can't get to the trail - I'll rip a bit out on a soccer field. The surface won't be comparable to an actual trail but try to find some exposed dirt and rail some flat turns. Don't try to get a feel for traction on the grass - you'll slide suddenly and unpredicatably all over the place and get hurt. If you can find a field with some downward sloping run-in - even better. Other times I'll go out to the local paved jogging trail, look for some dirt off of a corner and do the same there.

Gradually crank up the speed until you can start to feel the moment where the tires begin to break loose - BUT don't push it beyond that point on purpose to dump it like before. At this stage just learn to feel for that sensation of "traction" making the transition to "slide" and then holding on and staying in control. Once you find that point get comfy with it. The key is to practice in the exact same spot over and over so the terrain is fairly consistent.

...so that covers DIRT... for rocks, wet conditions, different types of dirt, it's pretty much a test session of figuring out where that traction limit is.

FORGOT to mention:

Proper cornering technique:

THE APPROACH
As you enter a turn, adjust your entry speed to match the corner. Ask yourself these questions. Is it banked? Flat? Off-camber? Does the radius change?
If the turn is banked, you need to brake a lot less than if it is off-camber. The more the outside of the turn is angled in your favor, the more tire you will have on the ground, and the more traction you will get. The reverse applies for an off-camber turn.
If the radius is tight, set up quickly, be prepared to apply the brakes and move to the front of the bike. If the radius is wide, don’t use too much braking, select the smoothest line and don’t position yourself too far forward.

SURFACE CONDITIONS
Once you have read the turn and are braking properly, look at the dirt. Is it hard and slippery, soft and slippery, soft and tacky, rough and tacky, or something else entirely? Evaluating the surface helps determine weight distribution.
Hard: If the turn is slippery, lean forward to get maximum front-wheel traction.
Soft: If it’s soft, lean back to counterbalance deceleration.
Tacky: If it’s tacky, ride with your weight in the middle of the bike.
Rough: When the ground is rough, stay back and follow the bike. Let the bike bounce around underneath you.

When two conditions are combined in the same turn, simply adapt the best technique for dealing with the corner’s specifics. For example, if it’s rough and slippery, it’s best to keep your weight in the middle of the bike. Yes, it is a compromise between being forward on slippery dirt and back on rough dirt, but it offers you the ability to adjust quickly.
What should you do if you enter the perfect turn—one that is soft and tacky? Keep your weight to the back of the bike and lean into the turn instead of steering. The closer to perfect a corner is, the easier it is to carry speed through it. Cornering faster saves precious energy. On a long ride, these savings help increase your overall speed—and endurance—dramatically.

WHAT TO DO WITH YOUR FEETShould you keep your foot on the pedal or take it off? Do whatever you want, but here are the rules of thumb.
Foot-out: Taking your inside foot off the pedal (motocross-style) is the easiest way to turn when first starting out. With your foot hanging out, you can use it as a rudder when you get in trouble. The conditions will dictate what you do with your feet. If the turn is tacky, put your inside foot forward, plant it, keep it forward, lean back and sit down. As you exit the turn, pull the foot as you straighten your body.

In slippery conditions, put your foot out as you enter the turn, but don’t stick it forward. Instead, hold the foot in line with your body. That way, if the rear wheel breaks loose, you can dab your foot on the ground or use it as a rudder by turning your toe inward and letting your leg slide towards the back of the bike to counteract the slide.

If the turn is rough, your foot should hover just above the ground, acting as a counterbalance. This should aid you in keeping the wheels from breaking loose, but if they do break free, you can always dab your foot to keep from going down.

Feet-up: Once you understand when to put your foot out, you can begin to leave it on the pedals. You might corner faster with your foot out, but you will accelerate out of the corner faster with your feet up.
The biggest difference between being clipped in and being clipped out is how your weight is distributed. When clipped in, the only counterbalance you can produce is the weight of your inside knee and elbow sticking out. To get maximum traction, try using your outside knee and elbow to push down on the bike. This will enhance your ability to get traction. Forward-and-back weight distribution should stay the same whether you are clipped in or not.

Press down on the inside grip (end of bars which are on the inside of the turn. If turning left - put a bit of weight on the left grip)

It's really good that you've written this. It is kinda reasonable and most people know it but before you read it or hear it you don't really feel motivated to do it. I was planning to do a little pump track for my dj bike and practice during the winter but flat corners are also a must. Thanks man, you've just motivated me to practice. I move to a new flat in tuesday and I have a nice hill that I can almost see from my window. Hopefully it will be a good practice place.

BTW. Talking about flat corners I think the Fluidride movie has it a bit more dialed as it has less race footage and more of it concentrated purely on instructions. Kinda reminds me of my snowboarding instructor course.

 

[DiRt DeViL]

Thanks for the write up, can't wait to get the bike out and start to apply the techniques.

Do you recommend flat or clipless for beginners? Used to run flats but they went with my previous bike, now I only have clipless until I can get some new pedals.

 

[norbar]

For the idea mentioned above clipless would I think be more dangerous as you should push yourself and with clips it's harder to evacuate.
I ride only clipless for my dh bike btw. Though I'm planning to try flats for the first time due to fact I can feel I can push myself more with flats. Clipless are better for races imho but I've never cornered so close the the edge as on my silly dj bike with non gripping tires. Just felt safer.

 

[LMC]

S.K.C. rep added for taking the time to write such a detailed post that im sure a number of people will benefit from. As Norbar was saying often you know what to do, but dont do it until someone actually spells it out for you.

 

[davep]

There are some very good technique teachings in this video (lot more than just turning): http://fluidride.com/2009/06/fluidride-like-a-pro-video-2/

Simon knows how to articulately describe what you 'should' be doing, and Lars is a WC level rider with great skills. It is not the highest budget production, but it will definately give you great pointers, as well as skill building techniques.
(watch the teaser at the link)

 

[DiRt DeViL]

rep added too, thanks for taking the time to help us

 

[jnooth]

Jordan, i've been riding on some hard pack with sand on top (scary to get the confidence to let loose and drift) but riding this gives you confidence to really let loose and stay off the brakes on good dirt.

my suggestions are to find a downhill corner that your comfortable on and just keep trying to do it faster and faster. once you get it, go on to a tougher corner. Find a dirt road or something and just work on getting to feel the limits of your tires. leaning to drift your bike (in control) will get you comfortable with letting your tires do the work in corners and not your brakes

 

[snowskilz]

Lees book www.leelikesbikes.com
Gene hamilton www.betterride.net
and the Fluid ride video is where i'd start.


I personally was not the fastest rider, i took a lesson from lee and it really helped. I then transfered what i learned into my riding. As you get more comfortable with riding you will get more comfortable with your drifting and turning.

Half of riding a bike fast is body position. There are some great pro's out there that can really describe how to put your body in the right position for every instance. this will help significantly.

 

[gemini2k]

Go to a pump track, and just practice taking the same turns over and over again, going faster and faster and leaning over more and more until you REALLY find the limit of the tires (and you). You'll slide out a few times, and eat sh*t hard once or twice, but you'll know what you can and can't do. Do this several times a week for a month.
That, and go find the trail with the steepest, LOOSEST turns and practice those. I can't believe the difference these 2 things made in my riding the past 3 months.

 

[slowmtb]

"the number one thing that keeps me ( most people ) on the brakes" -

Look up the trail as far as you can and make a mental note of what you see but then stop thinking about it. Once you know exactly what's ahead you can mentally map out your braking points. A lot of people struggle because they haven't looked up the trail and brake because of "the unknown".
Make your braking count as well

It's like gap jumps - if you look at the hole in the middle then guess where you are going to end up

 

[Jm_]

Interesting topic.

Yeah, you can't just tell people to "not be afraid", and you can't really push people into doing things either, they have to take the steps themselves.

Some DH kids in Flagstaff were amazed on Wed that I came down the "main" full-on DH run with gaps/drops/huge 60 foot death-roll at the end on clipless pedals (647s). To boot, I pulled off a nice sized double jump in front of them. I had a pretty good day of DHing, but my brakes were holding me back. Despite them being strong, I can't F-ing hold onto the code 5 levers for crap. I did try a loose-step up and consequently nose-dived into an unseen hole on the other side, but you just have to attack this stuff. I have my limits and there are certain things I do not attempt. That said, I also realize situations where I have to commit to the terrain, otherwise there's no way out.

It was also strange because a buddy who I thought was super-fast/riding my a$$ here in my hometown wasn't nearly as fast/comfortable on that terrain. He did some stuff real well, but other stuff was somewhat sketchy for him. He's a great rider, but I've shuttled/ridden said trails quite a few times before and I'm pretty much "home" on a lot of that terrain. If you ride something a LOT, you are going to get good at it.

It's been said before, riding with other riders makes you better. There are also so many instinctual things that I do these days. Whether it's reacting to front-wheel slides or rear-wheel slides. These things happen, but I seen to reign them in real fast and ride at or near the limit where they are possible. Independant braking is one of the things that I've gotten decent at over the years. I use the front and rear brakes quite independantly. During fast turns I drag the rear just enough to allow me to carve the tighter line necessary to make the turn. I've heard over and over that it's faster to brake before the turn, but going into the turn hot and using just enough brake so the rear doesn't break loose seems to make it go even faster for me (pulls the front wheel towards the inside of the turn). This is mainly for sharper turns.

I also know that my setup limits me a bit. I don't have the best fork/damping on there right now and the rear shock is quite a few steps below the front. I am looking forward to getting my rear shock rebuilt and having it function correctly. I may be mistaken that it will give me a big boost of speed and control (but the thing works like crap), but I think I can recognize the limitations of my bike/parts as well.

You are going to crash, but you are going to crash more with no confidece/comittment.

 

[DirtyMike]

I came to realize along time ago that no matter what tire you are running, your going to slide. Sometimes its time to sit back, look at your technique, nutt up, release the fear, and practice. You just get used to what your bike does. Best suggestion I can give before hand is to always check your bike before you ride. if it rides the same everytime, then everytime you hit a corner, you will have the same feel.

 

[Handy Man]

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough"
-Mario Andretti

 

[Kntr]

Ride more. Trust your tires, especially Minions. They are the best cornering IMHO.

 

[Pelle]

Press down on the inside grip (end of bars which are on the inside of the turn. If turning left - put a bit of weight on the left grip)

Isn´t this the opposite of what you should be doing?

 

[slowitdown]

Isn´t this the opposite of what you should be doing?

not if you want to corner quickly

 

[BikerBoy28]

you have a Minion DHF....you have nothing to fear.

 

[Pelle]

not if you want to corner quickly

So why is every mx riding class teaching you to apply pressure to the outside peg and outside grip?
Never heard the opposite anytime, anywhere, until now.

Now if we are talking countersteering it´s another thing. But that is when turning into the corner, not in it.

 

[Jm_]

I came to realize along time ago that no matter what tire you are running, your going to slide.

Good point.

 

[Kanye West]

So why is every mx riding class teaching you to apply pressure to the outside peg and outside grip?
Never heard the opposite anytime, anywhere, until now.

Now if we are talking countersteering it´s another thing. But that is when turning into the corner, not in it.

No they don't. They probably tell you to pull up on the outside grip and pull in, kinda along the length of the bar. On a moto you want your inside arm locked at the elbow (or very close to it) putting all your weight straight downwards.

 

[MarkDH]

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough"
-Mario Andretti

That's a really good point/quote. I wouldn't say I was fast by any means but I think I'm past the beginner stage now. When I first started out I used to get freaked out and panic whenever my tyres slipped, either in a corner or on roots, whatever. I thought that the top guys were always fully in control of their bikes, carving perfect arcs in turns and somehow getting magic traction on wet roots and rock. However, now that I have improved a bit and take a bit of sliding and pinballing as par for the course, I can see that I was mistaken. Take a look at videos of the top pros and have a look at what their tyres are doing; they are skittering about all over the place but their momentum keeps them going in the right general direction and they relax and let the bike move about below them.

Trust your tyres, but know that they have limit (literally nothing will stick to a wet polished root). Find the limits of them through practice, but keep in mind that it is possible to take them over the limit without ending in a crash.

Also, check out the Dirt vid from Schladming with Fairclough pinging through the roots, that should give you an idea.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

wow awesome! i didnt know know so many people would have have different tips and right-ups. thanks a ton guys!

first thing i am going to do is ditch my 2.7's and maybe a 2.35 in the front and 2.5 in back. and then apply all this helpful info to good use.

"If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough"
-Mario Andretti

Awesome ^

Thanks a bunch guys! keep em coming

 

[Jm_]

maybe a 2.35 in the front and 2.5 in back

Wow...

 

[Pelle]

No they don't. They probably tell you to pull up on the outside grip and pull in, kinda along the length of the bar. On a moto you want your inside arm locked at the elbow (or very close to it) putting all your weight straight downwards.

Thats a new one for me. Dont you agree that you should push down on the outside peg? So why pull up on the outside grip..?
Pushing down(somewhat vertically)on both grips sounds about right though.

Btw...read somewhere that you had a 380, awesome bikes!
Loved my 02´.

 

[norbar]

first thing i am going to do is ditch my 2.7's and maybe a 2.35 in the front and 2.5 in back. and then apply all this helpful info to good use.



Thanks a bunch guys! keep em coming

Front = wider, back = thinner.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

Front = wider, back = thinner.

really? i suppose your right because that is what I've seen on alot of bikes ( wider in the front and skinny in the back) but to me it doesnt really make any sense. if your ripping through a turn that is flat, wouldn't you want you front tire be thinner and "cut" in the ground better then a fatter tire that kinda just rolls over? so your front tire doesnt wash out?

"well maybe thats just...like...my opinion...man."

 

[JRogers]

Trust your tyres, but know that they have limit (literally nothing will stick to a wet polished root). Find the limits of them through practice, but keep in mind that it is possible to take them over the limit without ending in a crash.

For the most part, that's all you can do. Written tips help, but I've never found them to be particularly useful for me when actually riding; just gotta practice, drift a bit and get comfortable.

As a side note, I remember watching the US Open a few years ago at a loose, gravel filled turn. Watched high-seed amateurs and the lower-seeded pro men come through and most were sliding on the gravel quite a bit, shooting the little rocks out in the corner. Andrew Neethling qualified low (crash I think) and came through...totally different. His bike was completely quiet and it looked like he was not even drifting, just holding the line steady. Not really any advice I can give from this except it's all about confidence, control and being smooth. And it was just cool to see.

 

[TrumbullHucker]

For the most part, that's all you can do. Written tips help, but I've never found them to be particularly useful for me when actually riding; just gotta practice, drift a bit and get comfortable.

As a side note, I remember watching the US Open a few years ago at a loose, gravel filled turn. Watched high-seed amateurs and the lower-seeded pro men come through and most were sliding on the gravel quite a bit, shooting the little rocks out in the corner. Andrew Neethling qualified low (crash I think) and came through...totally different. His bike was completely quiet and it looked like he was not even drifting, just holding the line steady. Not really any advice I can give from this except it's all about confidence, control and being smooth. And it was just cool to see.

----------------------

I hear ya man, seeing bikers pin it through a corner and they drift and having all the gravel and dirt shoot out is awesome! especially in a well edited and filmed movie ( like high speed camera stuff!)

 

[redride]

really? i suppose your right because that is what I've seen on alot of bikes ( wider in the front and skinny in the back) but to me it doesnt really make any sense. if your ripping through a turn that is flat, wouldn't you want you front tire be thinner and "cut" in the ground better then a fatter tire that kinda just rolls over? so your front tire doesnt wash out?

"well maybe thats just...like...my opinion...man."

ireally dont think u should go 2.35 in front mate. rule of thumb. the grippier rubber in front.

 

[Kanye West]

Thats a new one for me. Dont you agree that you should push down on the outside peg? So why pull up on the outside grip..?
Pushing down(somewhat vertically)on both grips sounds about right though.

Btw...read somewhere that you had a 380, awesome bikes!
Loved my 02´.

I shouldn't really say "pull up" with the outside grip, but more push inwards along the length of the bar. And yes, weighting the outside peg if standing, or the outside of the seat if sitting. You can fall into a corner nice and fast if you put your weight to the inside peg and push out the back end with a little throttle roll on too. Helps if you happen to set up too late and can't quite throttle slide around a hairpin.

And yeah, the 380 is just awesome as you know. I'm actually selling it for a GasGas EC300 sadly. I really wish I could keep the 380 top end/crank though...the power on that thing is like cheating.