The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
I like the concept because with a -2 headset and my 40 at minimum height I can get the bb legitimately too low (13.2). But no, you'll never fit a decent volume 650b tire in the rear of a sunday. There's plenty of 26" tires that wont fit the sunday frame.
Hi 2 all, folks!
Even with war in my country (Ukraine) and the dozen of bombs which already fall in my city - I was able to buy an almost new dorado pro 2013 from my friend from Kiev.
New fork don't get a real DH test because winter is comming, but here some whips:
I still thinking about custom black decals. It's necessary?
Even with war in my country (Ukraine) and the dozen of bombs which already fall in my city - I was able to buy an almost new dorado pro 2013 from my friend from Kiev.
New fork don't get a real DH test because winter is comming, but here some whips:
I still thinking about custom black decals. It's necessary?
Well, mine is with a Dorado upped at its max and the BB is around 340mm high (around 13.4 inches). I would probably be in the market for rims in the near future, so was curious if the 650b conversation is theoretically possible. Not crazy about it though, i'll just continue with the 26' standart.
Is that with a -2 headset?
That's why it seemed so low. I feel like my -2 headset makes it either too slack or too low, depending on fork height. A -3 headset would make my bike unrideable.
Why? I went from -2 to -3 and would never go back. It's not too slack, i feel it became perfect - super stable at high speed, on par with the newest offerings on the market. The HA angle is around 62,3 - 62,4, i guess. There was a guy here in Bulgaria with a -4 on his Sunday - now that i would call too much!
You may be a little off on your head angle estimations. My sunday with a -2 and a fully extended 40 was sitting around 61.5. With the 40 at minimum height its at 63. I believe the dorado is taller than the 40, so you're probably sitting at around 60.
http://bikegeo.muha.cc/
http://bikegeo.muha.cc/
I think there was some difference in heights between carbon Dorados 2009 (like mine) and the aluminum Dorados after 2010 - the carbon ones are a little lower. I don't think i'm on 60, i would guess 62 minimum. But it's perfect and pretty confidence inspiring! 
No. Dorado lower than 40 with full extended legs, about 35mm of difference. I can say it as owner of both forks in 26 inch version.
I agree with bengxe, once you start running slacker than -2* cups, the BB height on the Sunday becomes too low (for most good rough/rutted tracks), and there's no simple way to avoid this.
In my experience it was far better to use a modest slackening cup (1 to 2*) and use the fork height to slacken the head angle further (running lower bars if needed, to correct bar height), this way the BB height can be kept reasonable. 13.8" is as low as I personally run on any DH bike, lower than this might sound good on the internet but sucks unless you're riding groomed trails or enjoy being restricted to slower lines.
In my experience it was far better to use a modest slackening cup (1 to 2*) and use the fork height to slacken the head angle further (running lower bars if needed, to correct bar height), this way the BB height can be kept reasonable. 13.8" is as low as I personally run on any DH bike, lower than this might sound good on the internet but sucks unless you're riding groomed trails or enjoy being restricted to slower lines.
I find the 13.4" height of my BB pretty comfy and have no trouble through any trail, no matter how hard it is. The -2 cups were OK, but i wanted to try a -3 just to be sure - i still had the -2 if i didn't like it. But once done and mounted, the decision was made ASAP - the -2 were sold. The bike's longer now, the Dorado eats bumps even better (in my view), and i personally like the looks more. It's a win-win for me.
The bike's longer now, the Dorado eats bumps even better (in my view), and i personally like the looks more. It's a win-win for me.You must be running your fork pretty tall to get your bb that high with a -3 headset. Your head angle would be 62 at minimum fork height, so I doubt you're any steeper than 61. That's pretty extreme. How tall are you and what frame size are you on?
You do realise a -3 cups don't get you a full -3 decrease, right?
Making the fork slacker gets your headtube lower, thus effectively lowering the fork height. I think my -3 gets an effective -2,68/-2,7 from the HA. I've tried to measure it by a phone app and it says 62.3- 62.4 but i am perfectly aware it's not exact - i was just curious to see how the app works. I have uploaded pics of my bike here in the thread, but on previous pages, however they are not good ones and one cannot exactly see how it sits. I have to make a new pic to show you better. Yea, I understand that, but I dont think it has as much effect on the head angle as you seem to. But either way, all I'm saying is that the extra fork height from your extended dorado has a pretty large effect on the head angle. So assuming that's an 8" travel dorado, your head angle is significantly slacker than your phone is telling you.You do realise a -3 cups don't get you a full -3 decrease, right?
Yeah, it's the 8' Dorado from 2009 ( http://www.sicklines.com/gallery/data/899/answer_2009_interbike24.jpg ). I've bought some aluminium legs for it from a 2010/2011 to change the carbon ones, but i assume the fork height will be the same. Once i am able to, i will take a new pic and upload it here so that you can see.
No need for another picture. I saw your bike in the 26" thread. I'm just curious why such a slack bike is working for you. How tall are you, and what frame size are you on?
Well, when run with the -2 cups, the bike was macho fun for me on the trails, very capable and stable, it was exactly or a little more than what i could handle. Now with the -3 cups, plus a major components change (changed the saint 810 combo for saint 820 combo, from atlas 785 went to havoc 800, switched from 2-ply tyres to EXO tyres) the bike became a beast - now it's a lot more than i could ever handle, started going through everything much faster and easier (i guess not only from the HA, but also due to the lower weight). I'm 172-173cm (this is something like 5'7' i think) and the frame is an M size. Wheelbase is 1180-ish mm and i find the whole bike a totally perfect fit the way it is now - for example, i put a leg over a Demo M size 2011 and found it unnecessarily long and uncomfortable for me. Why are you asking about sizes?
It seems like a lot of people run crazy slack head angles to compensate for a frame that's too small for them. That's probably not your issue at 172cm though. When I had a medium I used a -1.5 headset then a -2. Now that I've switched to a large the -2 headset feels too slack.
I always thought people run anglesets to compensate for a frame's steep HA - that's why i do it. When i got the Sunday, i rode it with a 1.5 steerer single-crown with the normal HA (65'). Was nice, but when i got the Dorado up front with the angleset, i found out what the difference is and how much better it became.
And where can I have a -2.5"? I'm running -1.5", but I have also tried the -2.0", and I think I want to have a bit more HAI always thought people run anglesets to compensate for a frame's steep HA - that's why i do it. When i got the Sunday, i rode it with a 1.5 steerer single-crown with the normal HA (65'). Was nice, but when i got the Dorado up front with the angleset, i found out what the difference is and how much better it became.
Works will do custom headsets, just email them.And where can I have a -2.5"? I'm running -1.5", but I have also tried the -2.0", and I think I want to have a bit more HA
Thanks!
6 Point owners, those of you that have experimented with geometry alteration(i.e. offset shock hardware, anglesets, even tradition headsets with external bottom cups). What were your findings? I'm particularly interested in the changes of HA, BB height, and wheelbase. If anyone has anything, please share!
How much for? 70 GBP? 80? 90??? Given that their normal offerings are in the region of 70-80, i guess custom ones will be the same or just a little bit over that. Mine were done for around 30 GBP (only because they were done in another city and then needed to be delivered by courier).
As for the 6point - isn't it originally with a strange shock (longer i2i, shorter travel of the shock) which is a good base for tuning the geo?
They came with 8.75 x 2.75 shocks but were limited internally to 2.5, custom stroke Fox DHX airs. The best option these days is to fit a 8.75 x 2.75. Here is a quote from Weagle:As for the 6point - isn't it originally with a strange shock (longer i2i, shorter travel of the shock) which is a good base for tuning the geo?
"Hi guys, THe 8.75X2.75 will fit the bike just fine, and give more travel (7"). You will end up with a low BB at full travel, so keep that in mind.
Dave"
So naturally I went with that size in a Vivid Air R2C. I also have a Lyric RC2DH Soloair in 170mm. It had a tapered steerer so to accommodate that I had to use an external lower headset. This did bring the headangle from 67.5 to 66. It says stock it has a 14.55 BB height, which it still is. Offset shock hardware is what I am mainly interested in, to lower the BB. But the 10mm Iron Horse shock hardware makes that a nightmare. I know that RWC makes a needle bearing kit that converts it to 8mm though, and I could cannibalize that kit to run the 8mm hardware with offset bushings.
Wow, 14.55 BB height is kinda high...
Not sure how you could use both RWC needle bearing kit and offset bushings.
Also, if you pass on the RWC and just use the offsets, you should measure first if it will suit the frame - for example, a Sunday cannot use offsets (actually it can - maximum 2mm which is nothing). You should make sure the frame doesn't bottom out before the shock!
Not sure how you could use both RWC needle bearing kit and offset bushings.
Also, if you pass on the RWC and just use the offsets, you should measure first if it will suit the frame - for example, a Sunday cannot use offsets (actually it can - maximum 2mm which is nothing). You should make sure the frame doesn't bottom out before the shock!The rwc kit has 8mm bolts that replace the stock 10mm bolts. You would use offset bushings on the 8mm bolts.Wow, 14.55 BB height is kinda high...
Not sure how you could use both RWC needle bearing kit and offset bushings.
The RWC kit has needle bearings instead of the bushings that go in the shock's eyelets. But putting ofsets through the needle bearings is something i've never heard of or seen it. I always thought needle bearings are perfect for frames that need no modification of the geo.
You wouldn't use the needle bearings.
Would it be possible to take an 8.75 x 2.75 shock and shorten it by .25? Make it an 8.5 x 2.5, should bottom out in the same place (and give you a lower BB) and still have the original amount of travel. Might effect the pedaling since the sag point would be further into the original travel but might work well.
Setting that-much less sag on a 8- x 2.75" does accomplish the same end result, but with more overall wheel contact w/ the ground below.
Hi All
It's my first post here and just after building a 2009/10 Sunday WC. I bought the frame about 3 months and have been slow adding new parts and old parts off my old Norco.
Next on the list is to replace the front shock and rear shock.
I have a couple of questions!!!!
Is there much point using offset bearings with a standard headset?
Boxxers or 40's? I am 11 stone and not very hard on bikes.
Thanks for looking
It's my first post here and just after building a 2009/10 Sunday WC. I bought the frame about 3 months and have been slow adding new parts and old parts off my old Norco.
Next on the list is to replace the front shock and rear shock.
I have a couple of questions!!!!
Is there much point using offset bearings with a standard headset?
Boxxers or 40's? I am 11 stone and not very hard on bikes.
Thanks for looking
Drive side and my custom mudguard.
Can I get mudguards like you somewhere?
This is looking so great with the IH and DW subtitles!
Or how do you made this?
That's a good point it's too clean, hopefully it won't be after this Sunday.
I am a graphic designer and couldn't get a vector logo for iron horse or dwlink so I had to redraw them in illustrator.
There UV printed on 650 mic PVC and then CAD cut out.There are three other older Sunday's in my mtb club and I need to see if they fit, so I am going to do a few generic versions as well as the WC. Then I might put up a few for sale as set on eBay.
The iron horse head tube badge will be in place of the WC logo.
Thanks for asking
I am a graphic designer and couldn't get a vector logo for iron horse or dwlink so I had to redraw them in illustrator.
There UV printed on 650 mic PVC and then CAD cut out.There are three other older Sunday's in my mtb club and I need to see if they fit, so I am going to do a few generic versions as well as the WC. Then I might put up a few for sale as set on eBay.
The iron horse head tube badge will be in place of the WC logo.
Thanks for asking