[Eren]

Hmmm... the guidelines on the first page are just a starting point - have you tried going with more pressure in the air chamber (120 psi) or increasing the High Speed compression? If you have done all of that and are still bottoming, then I would go with a higher spring rate of 400#.

Eren - the bikes that you see at Interbike (where that photo came from) are not always the final iteration of what the product line whill look like at the time of production. Keen observations, however.

i know they arent, just wonderin, im kind of a fan on the matte. Rode with some of the Fluiride guys in whistler yesterday, they said they had the matte bike for the "photo shoot"

 

[SylentK]

Is there any special (sunday) tuning required for the roco wc and any tuning tips

You know, there is a lot of chatter on the forums about this special tune for the Sunday. But as far as I know I'm running a bone-stock Roco and it is sweet. The "rear wheel drop" test tells me that it is working quite well (as there is absolutely no indication of bouncing and the Roco sucks up that little "drop" with ease). On the trail it works and works extremely well. So IMO, I don't think the Roco needs a Sunday specific tune....if one even exists. My 2 cents.

As for tuning tips, I run with little to no compression (can/will change depending on trail/track), rebound a bit slower than my fork. Sag = 1/3 of total travel. My pressure is on the high side at about 190psi. I'm a bigger guy (6'3", 185lbs soaking wet) And that's all I do with my version of the Roco.

More shock talk; In the latest issue of Dirt they interview some dudes who specialize in testing shocks very technically (using computers, measurements, gps, etc....) and when asked what shocks they've tested that have done well, they specifically mention the Roco and the CCDB. Read it, make a judgement for yourself, then take it "with a grain of salt"....

Good luck!

 

[S.K.C.]

You know, there is a lot of chatter on the forums about this special tune for the Sunday. But as far as I know I'm running a bone-stock Roco and it is sweet. The "rear wheel drop" test tells me that it is working quite well (as there is absolutely no indication of bouncing and the Roco sucks up that little "drop" with ease). On the trail it works and works extremely well. So IMO, I don't think the Roco needs a Sunday specific tune....if one even exists. My 2 cents.

...actually, one DOES exist, but I do not have detailed info on it YET. Dante, has a ROCO on his Sunday that was tuned by Marz., and I'm pretty sure it received the "Sunday Tune" or something similar to it.

I'll do some digging for more info.

 

[sbabuser]

Just a warning (can't remember where I posted this b4), but depending on who you talk to at Marz, no "Sunday specific" tune exists for the Roco. What I heard when I asked was that it was not necessary.
I wish I had the dhx for a comparison this wkend at Angelfire, but I didn't have any complaints with my stock Roco wc on my Sunday. Of course, I hadn't ridden the big bike yet this year (not counting the 2 trail rides around Golden) and I was more concerned with the fork performance. More than once I was wishing I hadn't sold the 888 rc2x that worked so well for me last year. I haven't given up on the 888sl yet, but it has received it's first official written notice...

 

[webbie]

cheers for that I think I may just have to pimp my rig out with new f7 link and roco wc

 

[rutter]

Hi could someone please measure the height and width of the ironhorse sticker on the down tube and the Sunday sticker on the top tube on their 05 19' ironhorse.

It will be greatly appreciated, as i forgot to measure them before it was painted.

Thanks

 

[HELLAsessier925]

hey guys hows it goin. Well, I just finished my 4th real ride on my sunday and im sorry to say and Im probably gonna get yelled at but I am NOT digging it so much. On the tighter turns it was sick, but down steep shoots and fast gradual turns with rocks, roots, and bumps, it tracked horrible. The front felt like it was gonna push and I had no idea where the rear end was at all and the rear suspension felt like it wasnt working until I really bounced down on it, and it also was as it it had terrible brake jack. Maybe its because I am coming off a v10 and I know that I have to get used to the frame, but there is a fine line between getting used to a new frame, and trying to change your complete riding style. Any suggestions what I can do to solve these problems, or is it possible that the sunday just isnt for everyone???!!!!?! thanks!

 

[Bicyclist]

Sounds like:

-Your bike is way oversprung and not correctly adjusted
-You're used to your V10, which is a way different feeling bike than the Sunday
-Your tires might be bald/overinflated

Of course the Sunday isn't for everyone, it's a purpose built race bike.

Post your specs and setup and we might be able to help you.

 

[HELLAsessier925]

for starters:
- Im running two comp 24's with 23psi in the front and 25 in the rear and theyre not bald, the rear is getting worn but it should be fine
- I weigh 117 pounds and am using a 250 pound sping ( the lightest they make... I think), 75 psi, 5 rebound clicks, around 2 clicks of bottom out, and 3 propedal clicks
- for the fork im running a 40 with 9 rebound clicks with a soft spring and my compression is 2 for high and 1 for low, no preload
- thats is if anymore info is need just let me know thanks!
ps. Im all about racing and thats all ive heard is that its a pure bred race bike so hopefully i can get these tips and be stoked on it!

 

[DIRTWRKS]

Yup, I know someone coming off an M3 onto a Sunday who is also having a tough time getting used to his new ride.

I guess all you can do is keep riding it until you adjust etc.

Also I think that the Comp 24 is not a great choice for a front tire , better off with a Comp 16 or 32 on there if you want to stick with Michelins.

 

[nugget]

for starters:
- Im running two comp 24's with 23psi in the front and 25 in the rear and theyre not bald, the rear is getting worn but it should be fine
- I weigh 117 pounds and am using a 250 pound sping ( the lightest they make... I think), 75 psi, 5 rebound clicks, around 2 clicks of bottom out, and 3 propedal clicks
- for the fork im running a 40 with 9 rebound clicks with a soft spring and my compression is 2 for high and 1 for low, no preload
- thats is if anymore info is need just let me know thanks!
ps. Im all about racing and thats all ive heard is that its a pure bred race bike so hopefully i can get these tips and be stoked on it!

Hella,

I'm on the same boat as you, i've been riding my sunday for some time and i'm still nolt used to it yet. It feels good somedays and not on others.

Are your clicks from full in or out?

On the other hand, i think your fork might be packing up. I'm running the blue spring and 4 click rebound from fastest.. Might jsut be the way i ride but just a suggestion.

Cheers.

 

[S.K.C.]

I came from riding a Demo 8 (the first version) before I got my Sunday, and I must say that it does require a change in riding style.

On my Demo I would just point and shoot (plow through obstalces or over them), but with the Sunday, it's more of a finesse bike.

I was talking with a pretty well known Pro here on the east coast who came off of riding an Orange 224. He was VERY aware and in tune with what the bike required of him as far as his riding style was concerned. On his 224 he noticed that with his particular riding style he needed to weight (move his center of gravity over) the rear end more in corners due to it's long WB and geo. With the Sunday, however, he noticed that in corners his new bike required him to do just the opposite - to weight the front end.

Basically, any time you go from one frame design to another there will be an acclimation process. A V10 / M3 is a much different beast than a Kona Supreme, or a 224, or even a Sunday. You will be required to alter your riding style somewhat to suit the new characteristcs of the bike.

So before you buy a bike that is very different from the one you previously owned, you should ask yourself: "How much of a change am I willing to make in my riding style?", and "If I know I can make a change, how far can I go with it?"

As far as suggestions go, all I can say is, be aware of what the bike is doing, as in - "it seems like the front end wants to push"... so ask yourself: "How can I alter this behavior?" "Well... if I weigh the front end more, it will push less..." ...etc.

Experiment and don't confine yourself to your previous riding habits that you are apt to carry over from your other bike.

 

[HELLAsessier925]

thanks yea I completely understand, the only thing is if I do put more weight over the front end i would probably fall becasue the rear end feels like it would just leave me and it already seems sketchy on really steep rough shoots. NUGGET- my clicks are from full out, thanks, any suggestions skc?

 

[S.K.C.]

Make sure you are not bottoming out the fork in rough corners - sometimes what may feel like an overly stiff fork, is just the opposite - the fork is too soft and you are blowing through travel.

Due to the fact that you need to move your C.O.G. over the front end a bit more, see if your fork is dialed in to compensate for this.

Also - try running a bit more psi in your DHX. Are you bottoming out the rear end at all?

To measure how much travel you are using, put a zip tie on one of the fork stanchions to check for excessive bottoming out and move the bottom out bumper up the shock shaft so that it is flush with the shock body.

If it feels like you don't know what the rear end is doing, this may be due in part to the comparative feeling between a v10 and a Sunday. With the V10, you've got a LOT of movement going on in the rear end with 10" of useable travel. The Sunday has 8" and uses it very efficiently. In addition don't forget that when seated in a static position on a V10 the recommended sag is MUCH greater than what would be recommended on a Sunday. This will also contribute to a perceived difference in rear suspension "feel".

In a related issue to the rear suspension - the Sunday requires a lot less pedal platform (ProPedal) than you think. When I would mash on the pedals on my Demo to accelerate, it would feel like I was on a trampoline with min. pedal platform settings. On the Sunday w/ min. platform settings, I could do the same thing, but with much less pedal input (bounce) transmitted to the rear end.

At your weight (117 lbs.) I'd try running anywhere from 0 to 2 clicks of ProPedal to soften up the small-bump compliance. Also - make sure that your suspension pivots are not over-torqued, especially the main lower pivot by the BB. This can have a drastically adverse effect on rear suspension performance by reducing its ability to move freely.

 

[dhkid]

On the other hand, i think your fork might be packing up. I'm running the blue spring and 4 click rebound from fastest.. Might jsut be the way i ride but just a suggestion.

Cheers.

he should be alright, you are about 140 on a good day? i am slightly hevier then he is and i run a soft spring. HELLA, you probably use x-soft spring actually. how much sag do you run front and back?

 

[Udi]

Also - make sure that your suspension pivots are not over-torqued, especially the main lower pivot by the BB. This can have a drastically adverse effect on rear suspension performance by reducing its ability to move freely.

Why on earth would you design a suspension pivot that can preload the bearing if overtorqued? Bad design IMO. I'm fairly sure the 07 setup doesn't allow this, but correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[HELLAsessier925]

well, I rode it again today after I put the rebound in the rear to 6 clicks from full on out, and I turned down the bottom out. I only bottomed once and it was much better. But somehow I still slid out in the rear in a really tight berm, I think I had my wieght to far forward. Im running the lowest setup possibe ( integrated headset, lowrise bars, 0 rise stem exc.) and I think its a little to low. Im going to try midrise bars and see how it goes. As far the the fork goes I kept the rebound and changed the compression for 3 high and 2 low. SKC- im not bottoming my fork much at all and its not blowing through its travel. Overall it feels better than it did yesterday, the bike just seems almost loose in high speed rough conditions. I think that moving my c.o.g over the front more would make it even more sketchy over steep shoots and what not right?

 

[General Lee]

are you the guy who is 5'6" and could only get a 17" frame?

 

[bizutch]

One thing no one has pointed out is the difference in wheelbase and top tube length between the two bikes.

How tall are you and what size V10 were you riding versus the Sunday? Also, how much did the V10 weigh in comparison to the V10.

Wheelbase is something that makes you feel sketch if you come from something longer. And if one is a tank weight wise compared to the other, throwing it around will suck.

You said you feel like you're riding the front. Top tube length is pretty varied between the V10 and Sunday as well.
Add to that going off of 10 inches of travel with alot of sag and a fairly high bottom bracket to compensate is a world of change.

Also, did I miss his sag settings? He said zero turns of preload on the coil, but nothing about sag.

Another thing, when you set the shock up with that 75psi, be sure that before you set it to 75psi, you rotate the Bottom Out and the Pro Pedal adjusters to full off (all the way out counterclockwise). This is a must on the DHX. Always set your desired PSI with NO bottom out or Pro Pedal. Adjust both after PSI. If you ever change your PSI settings, start from zero on both adjusters again.

 

[General Lee]

Another thing, when you set the shock up with that 75psi, be sure that before you set it to 75psi, you rotate the Bottom Out and the Pro Pedal adjusters to full off (all the way out counterclockwise). This is a must on the DHX. Always set your desired PSI with NO bottom out or Pro Pedal. Adjust both after PSI. If you ever change your PSI settings, start from zero on both adjusters again.

i'd love to hear your reasoning for this

 

[bizutch]

i'd love to hear your reasoning for this

ProPedal + Boost Valve Interaction
Certain aspects of the Boost Valve can influence the ProPedal adjustment.

If the ProPedal adjustment knob is fully counterclockwise (lightest ProPedal damping position) and the compression damping is still too strong, attach a shock pump to the Schrader valve on the reservoir and reduce the pressure 10 – 15 psi. Repeat to achieve the desired compression damping.

If there is not enough compression damping with the ProPedal knob fully clockwise, add 10 – 15 psi to the Boost Valve until desired compression damping is achieved.

It's my personal preference to make the above interaction simpler. Don't know about you, but if I start at zero clicks of Pro-Pedal and get the air setting in the Boost valve right from there...I can always add more air. It's a pain to incrementally decrease air in a rear shock by tiny increments. Just my way I guess. What would you recommend to simplify tuning the Boost Valve and Pro-Pedal simultaneously?

 

[davep]

Be a little careful with this Butch. There is a note in the DHX manual that warns against adjusting the bottom out with more than a certain amount of PSI (100 I think). The idea is that if there is a very high air pressure, reducing the B.O volume could overpressure the shock, or possible allow some air/oil leak across the IFP seal.

 

[HELLAsessier925]

i came off a small v10 and now im on a medium sunday.

 

[dh_newbie]

i came off a small v10 and now im on a medium sunday.

It seen your bike size is quit large.

 

[Udi]

Be a little careful with this Butch. There is a note in the DHX manual that warns against adjusting the bottom out with more than a certain amount of PSI (100 I think). The idea is that if there is a very high air pressure, reducing the B.O volume could overpressure the shock, or possible allow some air/oil leak across the IFP seal.

Yep pretty much, except the excess pressure can only cause an issue when the shock is compressed. Basically if you ran say 180psi with bottom out all the way out, and then screwed it all the way in, you might increase the pressure to 220psi with the reduced volume (which is over the maximum reccomended pressure).

Now this won't be an issue because the shock and IFP will experience pressures WELL over that towards bottom out (somewhere in the region of 500-1000psi at a wild guess), but obviously if you bottom out the shock with more than the recommended pressure in the chamber, the max pressure achieved will also go up and then you'll risk air/oil blowing the IFP seal like you said.

In short - butch isn't right on this one, like davep says, set your bottom out setting before adjusting your pressure. It's also better for tuning's sake, because that way you know the exact pressure in the chamber, whereas after you change the bottom out adjuster, the pressure changes to an unknown amount. Propedal on the other hand is unrelated to those two, and you can adjust it whenever without affecting the other settings.

 

[bizutch]

If there is such a risk of blowing the IFP, then that risk would only be if you initially place more than 200psi in the chamber with zero turns of Bottom out right?

Otherwise, wouldn't the owners manual simply say: With zero clicks of Bottom out, never exceed (X) psi? I assume the max psi listed for the shock is b/c of what Udi stated. Setting your shock at no more than 200psi with zero clicks of Bottom Out would have to be what Fox means. Or am I missing something here?

 

[Udi]

If there is such a risk of blowing the IFP, then that risk would only be if you initially place more than 200psi in the chamber with zero turns of Bottom out right?

Nope, read my post again.

You could start with 180 with zero BO, and end up with 220 with full BO. Rough guesses at figures, but the BO adjuster does reduce volume significantly from full out to full in. Volume reduction = increase in pressure.

But the pressure/risk isn't the main issue. Like I said before, your method is just bad practise because it means you never know the pressure in your shock after you adjust bottom out. That means that you'll never be able to distinguish between bottom out adjustments and pressure adjustments individually, because you are changing them simultaneously. It's just not the right way to tune a shock, and there's no benefit to doing it.

 

[bizutch]

Nope, read my post again.

You could start with 180 with zero BO, and end up with 220 with full BO. Rough guesses at figures, but the BO adjuster does reduce volume significantly from full out to full in. Volume reduction = increase in pressure.

But the pressure/risk isn't the main issue. Like I said before, your method is just bad practise because it means you never know the pressure in your shock after you adjust bottom out. That means that you'll never be able to distinguish between bottom out adjustments and pressure adjustments individually, because you are changing them simultaneously. It's just not the right way to tune a shock, and there's no benefit to doing it.

so you're saying that the recommended air pressures on Page 1 of this thread need to be wtih all 3 clicks of Bottom Out. You're saying that if I put 80psi in the chamber with zero clicks, then spin the bottom out all the way in a full 3 clicks, I'll then need to let air out to stay at 80psi? I'm not doubting you...just trying to clarify.

The owners manual never really laid this part out too well?

 

[Udi]

so you're saying that the recommended air pressures on Page 1 of this thread need to be wtih all 3 clicks of Bottom Out. You're saying that if I put 80psi in the chamber with zero clicks, then spin the bottom out all the way in a full 3 clicks, I'll then need to let air out to stay at 80psi? I'm not doubting you...just trying to clarify.

The owners manual never really laid this part out too well?

Spot on, you got it now.
Assuming you mean turns rather than clicks for bottom out.

 

[xc skier]

It's simple physics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyle's_law

 

[S.K.C.]

Why on earth would you design a suspension pivot that can preload the bearing if overtorqued? Bad design IMO. I'm fairly sure the 07 setup doesn't allow this, but correct me if i'm wrong.

What I forgot to mention was that this applies to the older 05' - 06' linkage hardware - with the new 07' upgrade kit this isn't an issue.

 

[HELLAsessier925]

thanks guys for all the help, I ended up realizing that I needend to put more weight over the back and that the head angle was to steep, so now I just raised the crowns 10 mm, well see how it works out.

 

[S.K.C.]

Good to hear you are experimenting!

Let us know how things work for you.

 

[dw]

Just a warning (can't remember where I posted this b4), but depending on who you talk to at Marz, no "Sunday specific" tune exists for the Roco. What I heard when I asked was that it was not necessary.
I wish I had the dhx for a comparison this wkend at Angelfire, but I didn't have any complaints with my stock Roco wc on my Sunday. Of course, I hadn't ridden the big bike yet this year (not counting the 2 trail rides around Golden) and I was more concerned with the fork performance. More than once I was wishing I hadn't sold the 888 rc2x that worked so well for me last year. I haven't given up on the 888sl yet, but it has received it's first official written notice...

Unless the ROCO has been completely changed internally in the last 6 months (which I am about 99.9% sure it has not) then a stock shock will be way overdamped on the bike. I have ridden both a stock ROCO on a Sunday (which was valved way too slow) and a low compression tuned ROCO (which felt amazing). Tom Rogers did the low compression tune on the ROCO for the Sunday. I don't know if the low compression "Sunday tune" it is a production item, but it exists in prototype form and is needed.

Dave

 

[Transcend]

so you're saying that the recommended air pressures on Page 1 of this thread need to be wtih all 3 clicks of Bottom Out. You're saying that if I put 80psi in the chamber with zero clicks, then spin the bottom out all the way in a full 3 clicks, I'll then need to let air out to stay at 80psi? I'm not doubting you...just trying to clarify.

The owners manual never really laid this part out too well?

This is exactly correct. When you reduce the size of the boost valve chamber, you up the air pressure for the same volume of air.

 

[bizutch]

This is exactly correct. When you reduce the size of the boost valve chamber, you up the air pressure for the same volume of air.

I tried to gleen this info from the owner's manual but couldn't find anything useful in the wording.

Through some trial and error, I almost always wind up with my Boost at full in...and my pressure never had to be at the 200lb threshhold, so I've managed to not blow mine by default.

FYI...I just noticed the dust around my rebound adjuster seems to be adhered to a little bit of oil. Wonder if my rebound is weeping oil or it's just residue from the factory install? I've washed my bike several times with Dawn and water, but hadn't noticed it until now. Hadn't looked for it either.

 

[dw]

Why on earth would you design a suspension pivot that can preload the bearing if overtorqued? Bad design IMO. I'm fairly sure the 07 setup doesn't allow this, but correct me if i'm wrong.

If the 05-06 frame is manufactured correctly then there is no way to preload the bearing beyond its limits when tightening the shock bolt.

The 07 frame can be manufactured totally wrong and still can't really preload the bearings when you tighten the shock bolt.

 

[S.K.C.]

so you're saying that the recommended air pressures on Page 1 of this thread need to be wtih all 3 clicks of Bottom Out. You're saying that if I put 80psi in the chamber with zero clicks, then spin the bottom out all the way in a full 3 clicks, I'll then need to let air out to stay at 80psi? I'm not doubting you...just trying to clarify.

The owners manual never really laid this part out too well?

Just to clarify things further: if you follow the DHX Set-Up instructions from top to bottom, you will be fine provided you are starting with minimum air pressure in the chamber. I try to make sure the quotes I use read logically, but sometimes certain parameters are understood. I assumed a lot of people were aware of the air pressure issue to begin with, but I'll update the front page with an air pressure warning just the same.

 

[xemini]

whats a good durable bottom bracket to put in my 06 sunday team?, got fsa gap crankset, theres a megaexo quad in now that needs replacing what should I get?

 

[pinkshirtphotos]

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