The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
just kind of brainstorming....
have you checked the hanger alignment with a DAG?
Is your chainline OK? If the crank chainline was a bit too small, the chain would tend to pull the chain to larger cogs.....along the same line, is your guide lower roller aligned properly?
Check the chain length (this frame has little chain growth, but cut to the min with the frame bottomed will make sure of the min chain length)
How is the b-tension. How close is the idler from the cog? largest and smallest?
have you checked the hanger alignment with a DAG?
Is your chainline OK? If the crank chainline was a bit too small, the chain would tend to pull the chain to larger cogs.....along the same line, is your guide lower roller aligned properly?
Check the chain length (this frame has little chain growth, but cut to the min with the frame bottomed will make sure of the min chain length)
How is the b-tension. How close is the idler from the cog? largest and smallest?
I would shave a bit off the hanger , I had to do the same on my last sunday , It gives you a bit off extra adjustment and lets you unload the derallieur a bit. The other side effect I was having was the the extra tension on the derallieur was causing it to hammer on the limit-stop washer thing ( b tension adjustment ) behind the mount and I snapped a couple in two which got real annoying.
It may well be they dont bother shifting the hanger in further because most racers lock out the top cog anyway to reduce the chance of the mech hitting the spokes when they are flexing.
That said they should still sort it out for the masses.
It may well be they dont bother shifting the hanger in further because most racers lock out the top cog anyway to reduce the chance of the mech hitting the spokes when they are flexing.
That said they should still sort it out for the masses.
Thanks for all your replies guys, I appreciate the help.
I fitted a cassette with a smallest tooth of 12 last night, and it seems to shift more successfully into the smallest tooth on that. Not reliably every time, but much better.
Straight away I thought about the b-screw, but have found that this makes no difference.
I don't really want to start shaving material off the side of the hanger, as I don't have the equipment to ensure it is straight.
I really don't care anymore, it's too much hassle to deal with this. I'm just going to run with the 12 tooth cassette, and put up with the inconsistant shifting.
Thanks,
JT
I fitted a cassette with a smallest tooth of 12 last night, and it seems to shift more successfully into the smallest tooth on that. Not reliably every time, but much better.
Straight away I thought about the b-screw, but have found that this makes no difference.
I don't really want to start shaving material off the side of the hanger, as I don't have the equipment to ensure it is straight.
I really don't care anymore, it's too much hassle to deal with this. I'm just going to run with the 12 tooth cassette, and put up with the inconsistant shifting.
Thanks,
JT
JT,
If I know you, this is nothing you can't fix with some cask wine, an oxy torch and a really big hammer...
On the first page of this post it says to have 75-80psi in the chamber of a DHX 5.0 before cranking down the bottom out. I followed those steps but want to play with pressure a bit. If I let all the air out to start over, do I need to back the bottom out, add 75-80psi then, crank down BO again, then tune air?
Hey JT, have you measured your chainline? It should be 57.5mm, if it's anything less then you won't be helping your problem. I do vaguely recall IH screwing up the spacer config at some stage, probably not on yours, but worth checking anyway if you haven't. It's measured from centre of chainring teeth to centre of BB shell, easiest to measure to the non-drive end of BB shell and subtract half the BB width (83/2 = 41.5mm).
I'm running a 12t cassette as well and seem to have no troubles shifting into it... running dura-ace shortcage mech.
So I picked up an LG1 this year for my Sunday. I was a bit hesitant, as I knew something bad could happen, but on she went. Everything was working great until the first hard hit, and the bottom tab bent in and broke off.
Has anyone had this happen to them? I understand it's not IH's fault I hit something, I just need to know what to do. Can it be fixed? Does IH offer crash replacement frames? It's an 06 WC, I'm the original owner and I'm pretty sure I can find the receipt somewhere.
Thanks. Ken
Has anyone had this happen to them? I understand it's not IH's fault I hit something, I just need to know what to do. Can it be fixed? Does IH offer crash replacement frames? It's an 06 WC, I'm the original owner and I'm pretty sure I can find the receipt somewhere.
Thanks. Ken
kenny, the way i see it you have 1 good option and several other piss poor one which i am going to annoy you with. these dodgy ideas include using an iscg plate that sits behind your bb cup (which i have for you, not sure about clearance... i assume its the iscg old bolt pattern. is that compatible with the LG uno? beats me!
or... buy my OG Steel Pony Funday! the bearings may rattle around like a two stroke but then you wont have to put cards in your spokes!
or... be a man and get on a Scott Gambler like your coolest teammate, ME!
or... ride your bike not like a hack... 3rd Semi-Pro at National Champs...pffff
someone with real advice help this brotha out
or... buy my OG Steel Pony Funday! the bearings may rattle around like a two stroke but then you wont have to put cards in your spokes!
or... be a man and get on a Scott Gambler like your coolest teammate, ME!
or... ride your bike not like a hack... 3rd Semi-Pro at National Champs...pffff
someone with real advice help this brotha out
Get an adapter plate....that is about the only choice now other than trying to run with only 2 bolts.
I do find this interesting with all the back and forth about frame mounted bashes (SC denying all waranty claims if these are used)...I sort of remember that DW said that the ISCG 05 was designed specifically for this kind of load and to not worry (although anything can brake)....this is the first I have heard of it though.
I just put an LG1 on my Sunday and have used all aluminum hardware. THe chainring bolts as well as the backplate bolts are aluminum for this exact reason. I would much rather have a few bolts break than rip the tab off my frame...
Won't ally bolts break REALLY easily with a taco-hit or two? I'm thinking maybe 1 steel bolt (the one in the uppermost tab, that can't "break") might help avoid a lot of annoyance.
Personally I do find it pretty funny that dw says it's fine, and yet this must be the 3rd sunday that we've heard about with busted tabs. Yeah everything breaks, but clearly this method of bashguard mounting is pushing the limits of the mount.
Personally I do find it pretty funny that dw says it's fine, and yet this must be the 3rd sunday that we've heard about with busted tabs. Yeah everything breaks, but clearly this method of bashguard mounting is pushing the limits of the mount.
This is probably a stupid question as iv had my sunday for nearly a year and have forgotten if its normal haha.That and i havnt had time to take the lower piviot/bushing assembaly area appart to see whats what. So my question is....are the two metal covers around the area where the piviot meets the lower shock bushings (the ones with a large socket fitting) meant to move with shock compression. I assume there's bearings behind these. Also the drive side cover(not sure if it is a cover but i cant think of what to call it 
) keeps coming loose...is this likely to be a seased bearing or just needs a bit of locktight..... i realise the later is a stupid question and that all this could be solved by me getting off my ass and taking it appart but oh well what can i say...
) keeps coming loose...is this likely to be a seased bearing or just needs a bit of locktight..... i realise the later is a stupid question and that all this could be solved by me getting off my ass and taking it appart but oh well what can i say...
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Well PBJ, perhaps I'll give that adapter plate a try. I would rather run the LGone for the coolness factor, even thou retro green is back in style and nothing else really matters. As for me saddling up on the Proto Funday, I feel not worthy. That pony has history in the clan, and I just wouldn't know which trail to travel next. Although maybe you could help me with a winter paint striping project on my steed.
The Gambler? Maybe baby. I'm still lovin on the Sunday, and had planned on a new one this year, but with all that's going on these days it looks like this will be the last year on IH. If I could get a killer deal on a crash replacement or something I would rock it for another season. Who knows.. I actually enjoyed all of your options.. See ya this weekend?
davep and Udi - It's a tuff choice. I would hate to blow a race run because my lg1 tore off with lesser strength bolts holding it. I also guess none of us have the money to replace frames all the time because of missing guide tabs.
I'm sure the hit my guide took was hard, but I didn't even notice it. I just happened to be looking down at the bike while waiting in the lift line and saw it. I do agree that we might be pushing the limits of the mount with an lg1.
I'm sure the hit my guide took was hard, but I didn't even notice it. I just happened to be looking down at the bike while waiting in the lift line and saw it. I do agree that we might be pushing the limits of the mount with an lg1.
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This is probably a stupid question as iv had my sunday for nearly a year and have forgotten if its normal haha.That and i havnt had time to take the lower piviot/bushing assembaly area appart to see whats what. So my question is....are the two metal covers around the area where the piviot meets the lower shock bushings (the ones with a large socket fitting) meant to move with shock compression. I assume there's bearings behind these. Also the drive side cover(not sure if it is a cover but i cant think of what to call it
sorry thinking about it that was atually such a stupid question, of course it has to rotate or the piviot wouldnt be a piviot. :huh:
Just got my sunday world cup '08 and interested in the settings that people are using for the rock shox vivid 5.1?
I have ridden it twice so far and i'm running no end stroke rebound and 3 beggining rebound and 2 LS compression. As of yet I haven't played with these settings much as I'm still getting used to the bike atm, but will be experimenting soon. Running a 300lbs spring.
Same goes for the boxxer airs too, 110psi... float gate all way on and 2 clicks compression on. minimal rebound. What you got>?
I have ridden it twice so far and i'm running no end stroke rebound and 3 beggining rebound and 2 LS compression. As of yet I haven't played with these settings much as I'm still getting used to the bike atm, but will be experimenting soon. Running a 300lbs spring.
Same goes for the boxxer airs too, 110psi... float gate all way on and 2 clicks compression on. minimal rebound. What you got>?
for a 160lb pro racer: 300lb spring, 8-10 clicks beginning rebound, 1/2-3/4 turn end stroke rebound, low speed compression 1-2 clicks out from fully closed (in other words, lots of LSC). up front its usually 125psi with 3-4 clicks LSC or 130psi with 1-2 lsc depending on the track and the floodgate usually between full open and one turn in.
Probably not the kind of settings you are looking for if you want lots of plush feeling suspension. This is definitely a 'race' setup since a lot of LSC makes the bike really harsh at slow speeds or just cruising around in the woods but it keeps everything nice and stable and riding higher at race speeds, it also keeps your body weight from effecting your suspension as much when you move around on the bike. the downside is that it really only feels good when going fast, but that's sort of the point.
I thought you didn't need too much lsc with the sunday frame? will try simular settings and give it a thrashing!
Compression adjustment on the boxxers... isn't the blue HSC and the floodgate adjustment simular to LSC?
Thanks
The blue knob opens and closes the LSC (fixed) port. THe gold floodgate knob adjusts the threshold (blow-off) to the HSC circuitry....so how much force is needed to transion from LSC to HSC.
Planning on sending the DHX 5.0 coil from my 06 Sunday to Push for servicing and upgrade. Had them do a fork in the past but never a shock, so I'm not entirely sure what to expect when it comes back. Hoping to bolt on, play with rebound a bit and rip. Anyone have any experience with this? Did they nail the air volume or should I expect to add/remove to taste, PP and BO settings? Preload? Are the settings/guidelines on the first page here even going to be relevant any more?
Thanks
Thanks
The settings will not be relevant any more. They changge the shock enough to make the settings different. They do however now send a card back with your shock that lists the 'new' recomended settings....al based on your weight and riding style.
I was a bit worried about the 'oddness' of the sunday and if PUSH had that down...I had heard at one point that early sunday tunes were too slow in rebound. I talked to Daren quite a bit and he was quite confident that they had their newest sunday tune nailed. I just got the shock back and have not really ridden it, so I cant give you feedback as to the ride qualities yet.....
FWIW - This past winter I sent in a DHX3 that I grabbed off of eBay and PUSH tuned it.
On my 06 Sunday It was bolt it up, use their recommended air pressure settings and fiddle a wee bit with the rebound setting based on where I was riding. It is a great tune and it makes the bike TRACK like nothing else.
On my 06 Sunday It was bolt it up, use their recommended air pressure settings and fiddle a wee bit with the rebound setting based on where I was riding. It is a great tune and it makes the bike TRACK like nothing else.
Well its on its way to Loveland, CO. Can't wait to see the difference. Be interesting to see where they set the Bottom out and Propedal dials.
SKC - DW ANYONE IN THE KNOW, HELP!!!
I need the upper and lower shock mount pins, washers, and bolts for an 06 MKIII and 06 7Point. I think they are the same size/width across both platforms.
The issue is since they are 06 I can't just source them from WorldWide without buying an entire pivot kit.
Does anyone have the dimensions of the pins/bolts so I could maybe find them at McMaster Carr or the Nutty Company?
I need the upper and lower shock mount pins, washers, and bolts for an 06 MKIII and 06 7Point. I think they are the same size/width across both platforms.
The issue is since they are 06 I can't just source them from WorldWide without buying an entire pivot kit.
Does anyone have the dimensions of the pins/bolts so I could maybe find them at McMaster Carr or the Nutty Company?
We have pivot kits for all DW link bikes in stock and will order more as needed.
05/06 7 Point shock pins measure- 68x8 and 42x8
05/06 MKIII shock pins measure- 58x8 and 42x8
It is kind of funny/odd...they set the B/O all the way open (largest volume) on mine, and dont specifically say anything about the pro-pedal. The card of settings has a place for 'compression' and I would that they are refering to PP with that term...I think it says something like 3-5 clicks. Yours could certainly be different.
I specifically mentioned wanting to prevent chasis movement yet having min HSC to allow fast square bump absorption. I also ran my rebound all the way out (felt fine), but asked them to speed it up a bit so that I could find the 'too fast' point to know I was not missing something.
The thing that certainly struck me as odd is the max volume setting on the B/O. THe bike is very linear and I had always run min volume to create progression. They (PUSH) do say that they control bottoming with the B/O bumper more-so than the air volume, so that must be the deal.
I run a 350 spring and weigh about 185-190. Sag is spot on with a single turn of preload....
quick question, my 06 team frame's top shock bushing is two pieces and has developed play between the bushing and the bolts. If I call ironehorse, can they send me new bushing and will it be just 1 piece? Or should I call Fox, and if so what are the specs on the bushings? I can't understand as two why it is 2 pieces and not one with a couple of spacers on top.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
We don't stock shock hardware. You can order it directly through Fox and you would need 23x8.
How are those settings working out for you?
Ok, I've had my 08 sunday world cup for 18 days now, very pleased with it until now.
I've noticed that there is already play in the lower linkage directly connecting to the rear triangle. I originally thought it needed a tighten up, but on closer inspection the pin has been moving in the linkage and has now worn with the linkage and now theres play between the two. So when it's all together and there isn't any play in the bearings and it's all nice and tight the pin is banging around in the linkage.
It seems rediculous that this has happened, the bearings should be the only thing moving down there.
Many people having this same problem? Will I have to be sending it back for warrenty? Will it matter if it's not the same ironhorse dealer I take it back to? Is there something else I can do, how do I stop it happening again?
Thanks, Tom
I've noticed that there is already play in the lower linkage directly connecting to the rear triangle. I originally thought it needed a tighten up, but on closer inspection the pin has been moving in the linkage and has now worn with the linkage and now theres play between the two. So when it's all together and there isn't any play in the bearings and it's all nice and tight the pin is banging around in the linkage.
It seems rediculous that this has happened, the bearings should be the only thing moving down there.
Many people having this same problem? Will I have to be sending it back for warrenty? Will it matter if it's not the same ironhorse dealer I take it back to? Is there something else I can do, how do I stop it happening again?
Thanks, Tom
Loctite all of your hardware before you ride it.
yeah, well I knew that a few people were having problems with the linkages so I kept a close eye on them, they are all loctited bar the slip pin at the bottom shock which I greesed, and this one wasn't even loose either... so I'm wondering why it even happened...
There was no play when the bike was new, correct? It's going to be tough to diagnose over the net as it could be anything from a defective bearing (could be the extended race being too short) to a poorly machined lower link (not likely but if you've been in the industry long enough then you learn anythings possible. I would bring it into a dealer, doesn't even have to be an Iron Horse dealer we'll work with anyone that's willing to work with us, and have them inspect it and give us a call.
-Carl
GL, are these setting from fully open (counterclockwise)?
yes, all those settings are from full open except for low speed compression which is 1 to 2 clicks out from being all the way in.
isn't that a lot of compression damping? I thought the Sunday dw*link was optimised to require very little to no compression damping?
also doesn't the Sunday work better with faster reebound setting?
also doesn't the Sunday work better with faster reebound setting?