How about CR1? Aren't they still doing tuning on the 5th/Swingers? If I recall correctly CR1 is run by the guys that were behind Cortina, right?
The Official Iron Horse Sunday / DW-Link Tech. & Tuning Section
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
I had CR1 revalve the RC4 I was running on my old Sunday. Same guys as Cortina Cycles.
Adrian does good work for the shocks. Its a very big part of his business. He actually knows a lot about the RC4. He tunes a lot of them for the Intense 951.
on my RC4 we opened up the LSC and lowered the oil weight. Ended up running a slightly heavier spring to make it feel perfect.
Adrian does good work for the shocks. Its a very big part of his business. He actually knows a lot about the RC4. He tunes a lot of them for the Intense 951.
on my RC4 we opened up the LSC and lowered the oil weight. Ended up running a slightly heavier spring to make it feel perfect.
I'm not sure what mods Avy do, but keep in mind that if you remove the boost valve / SPV / CVT from any of these shocks, they lose their benefit entirely (on a bike like the sunday). No CVT = no progressive compression damping.
Unfortunately, with the 5th and 6-ways I've ridden, they tend to be quite sticky with the CVT mechanisms in place, so it does make sense to remove and replace the valves with a conventional shim stack. Or at least it would make sense, if we weren't riding frames with no mechanical bottom out control. So it's a bit tricky to get it right either way in my opinion.
My personal advice would be to just skip the messing around, cut out the braces on the link, and grab an RC4. Preferably a newer one (2011+) with the bugs ironed out.
Unfortunately, with the 5th and 6-ways I've ridden, they tend to be quite sticky with the CVT mechanisms in place, so it does make sense to remove and replace the valves with a conventional shim stack. Or at least it would make sense, if we weren't riding frames with no mechanical bottom out control. So it's a bit tricky to get it right either way in my opinion.
My personal advice would be to just skip the messing around, cut out the braces on the link, and grab an RC4. Preferably a newer one (2011+) with the bugs ironed out.
Udi- do you have any time on an speed sensitive damper on the Sunday? That's what avy does with those shocks. I'm stuck on the idea of buying a beat fifth and having avy tune it as the overall cost would still be less than a used rc4 and it would be custom tuned to my weight and frame vs. Generic via the rc4
Basically, all shocks (that I know of) are speed sensitive, and I've had plenty of them (BOS, CC, Vivid, you name it).
But the benefit that the curnutt valve offers (in whatever guise - CVT, SPV, Boostvalve) is that the damping is also position sensitive - as you get deeper into the stroke, compression damping increases. The Sunday was designed at a time where these shocks were common, and thus designed around it. The frame's rate is linear at the end, with the assumption that the shock will take care of progression.
This means that if you run a shock without some form of damping ramp up at the end of the travel, you'll have to make one of two small compromises:
a) You run the shock soft enough to get good compliance / bump absorption, don't mind sitting a little deeper into the travel, and deal with occasional bottom out.
b) You run the shock firmer to compensate, and thus sit higher in the travel + bottom out less, but deal with less compliance / bump absorption earlier in the stroke.
Now with a good shock and setup, these aren't hugely limiting compromises - a certain guy almost won the 2008 world championships by a completely ridiculous margin on the frame in question with a Vivid (which doesn't have position sensitive compression damping).
But ideally (and DW seems to be a strong advocate of this), the frame will be used with a shock with the aforementioned position sensitivity, which will reduce the need to make the compromises I listed. If I was going to go to the trouble of actually spending money on my bike, I'd probably go down this route.
The RC4 also has the benefit of being a current generation version of the shocks available over the frame's lifespan. The 5th and 6-way were plagued with excessive damping stickiness (poor CVT valve implementation), and the DHX5 while not sticky, was plagued with a lack of proper compression valving and adjustment. The RC4 fixes these problems pretty well, and in my opinion doesn't really need much tuning beyond twiddling adjusters in order to work well with the frame.
You probably knew some of that already, but I thought I'd try and be thorough for anyone else reading. Hope it helps.
Helps quite a bit. I know some of what you mentioned, but I'm still getting my feet wet in the field of dampers, and you clearly know your stuff. I don't mind the DHX terribly on my frame, but I don't like the way it seems to almost "aggressively" ramp up mid/late stroke. Perhaps I'm using too much boost valve pressure (150psi) or could crank it back less (maxed out). Still, I'm dealing with boxxer stiction right now, and it's far overshadowing what the rear is doing on the trail.
Ive had the vivid since stock on my WC and I am getting sick of the coil rubbing on the frame, as well as lack of damping toward the end of stroke. I run the compression firmer which is better in big hits because im not blowing through my travel but my traction is significantly lower - riding my mates bike s I cant believe how supple they are and grip grip grip. So Ive been thinking about trying on an RC4. I used to be a massive 5th fan but sold my old shock i had hanging around and cant really be bothered getting a tune (I live in Aus), so Ill probably hunt around, see if i can pick up something for an alright price and get the new mounting hardware.
Bikes currently getting some work done thanks to going full speed into a tree! Bent stnachions, bras, stem, front wheel, smashed headset bearings....
Thought about an angelset but I dont think its steep enough in Aus anywhere I normally ride (NSW)...at least Ive never felt I want slacker...
Bikes currently getting some work done thanks to going full speed into a tree! Bent stnachions, bras, stem, front wheel, smashed headset bearings....
Thought about an angelset but I dont think its steep enough in Aus anywhere I normally ride (NSW)...at least Ive never felt I want slacker...
First proper ride on the rc4 yesterday doing uplifts at a spot I ride fairly often. I didnt touch any of the adjusments, I just left them at 180psi, full bottom out, around 9 clicks lsc and 4 clicks (i think) of hsc (all from fully open) - I'll double check later what they were.
I didn't really take a moment to think about how it was performing, just focusing on getting in as many runs as possible and getting used to being on my dh bike again, but looking back at it, there was no point at which I felt i needed to adjust anything, it wasnt blowing through its travel and diving in corners, and it really held up well through some outrageous moments where I thought i was going to lose it for sure! Feels really plush yet the damping is stiffer, much more so than my mates pushed dhx3 on a sunday, which felt seriously soft in comparison!
Thumbs up so far, going to whistler in 2 weeks so the proper fiddling and testing can start then haha
I didn't really take a moment to think about how it was performing, just focusing on getting in as many runs as possible and getting used to being on my dh bike again, but looking back at it, there was no point at which I felt i needed to adjust anything, it wasnt blowing through its travel and diving in corners, and it really held up well through some outrageous moments where I thought i was going to lose it for sure! Feels really plush yet the damping is stiffer, much more so than my mates pushed dhx3 on a sunday, which felt seriously soft in comparison!
Thumbs up so far, going to whistler in 2 weeks so the proper fiddling and testing can start then haha
I find the opposite. When i got mine i had a pushed DHX5 on it, and i felt that it had way too much end stroke damping. Since changing to a vivid i've noted a huge increase in traction and control, and don't find it blowing through the travel too much. I know it's all a matter of personal opinion, but i think changing to a vivid was the best thing i've done for this bike.
DHX5 /= RC4, not really a fair comparison.
I actually didn't like the DHX5 in the frame, even though it had progression, it basically had no damping in the first 2/3 of the stroke, unless you used propedal which gives you the damping you need but also kills sensitivity and bump absorption. I actually had the same problem in other frames too with that shock.
The RC4 seems to offer a smoother ramp up curve instead of nothing-nothing-wall and the harsh propedal is replaced with proper LSC/HSC. Compared to a DHX5 though, I'd be taking the Vivid too... having a proper / normal compression damper and adjuster helps a lot.
I actually didn't like the DHX5 in the frame, even though it had progression, it basically had no damping in the first 2/3 of the stroke, unless you used propedal which gives you the damping you need but also kills sensitivity and bump absorption. I actually had the same problem in other frames too with that shock.
The RC4 seems to offer a smoother ramp up curve instead of nothing-nothing-wall and the harsh propedal is replaced with proper LSC/HSC. Compared to a DHX5 though, I'd be taking the Vivid too... having a proper / normal compression damper and adjuster helps a lot.
I too never have had much luck with my DHX5. I did feel nice compared to the original 5th Element but that does not say much. It would also leak oil all the time and it get worse and worse during the season. I now have been on my back up shock which is a 6-way Swinger which I got from Iron Horse. I am not sure how many tweaks were made to it while they tested it for the Sunday but its works better than either of the two other shocks if anything it may be a little slow in the rebound. I am 160lbs without gear and run it with a 250lbs spring. I am not sure if I have even bottomed it out with that spring.
The DHX5 is the worst shock Ive ever had on any of my bikes. I was never able to get it feeling good at all, and the damping felt rubbish. Nothin-nothing-wall is pretty spot on actually. I was glad when I sold the bike that had the DHX.
That is a bit odd that the 6 way was much better than the 5th - if you had a CVT5, they are pretty damn similar shocks (great shocks in my opinion). However, as you said who knows what IH did to it. Or you may have just a dud 5th? Certainly they were a bit sticky in the beginning stroke.
The RC4 is the first non-air Fox shock I would consider buying.
BTW, I got my stock Vivid 5.1 custom valved to increase rebound speed and lighten the tune slightly as well. It gives me a better range for use, especially as I am currently riding with fast rebound (previously ran slow)
Just out of curiosity where would a PUSHed DXH3 fit in here? I rode my Sunday with a factory DHX3 for 2 seasons before I had it PUSHed this past winter. I think that it's a significant improvement, but I've never ridden anything else on the Sunday so I've got nothing to really compare it to.
No idea, since I haven't tried a Pushed DHX. At the end of the day, I think if you're happy with your setup, then that's all that really matters!
Like russthedog, I too rode a couple of other bikes that I thought did a lot better through harsh square edges than my bike (owned a v10 for a little while too), so I really wanted to make the sunday a little better in that regard.
Pretty happy with it now!
Like russthedog, I too rode a couple of other bikes that I thought did a lot better through harsh square edges than my bike (owned a v10 for a little while too), so I really wanted to make the sunday a little better in that regard.
Pretty happy with it now!
Is the stock shocks (I have a DHX 3.0) on 7points custom shimmed for the bike? I think I've read that they have lower than stock compression, it this correct? I swapped the shock over to a Spezzy Enduro 05, where I just have 25% sag but bottoms it pretty hard on 1 meter to flat drops.
It seems that some (all?) of the 2008 7point bikes came with a Roco WC shock... at least some of the ones that came from rscycles.
I just bought one that has the Roco WC shock on it from that rscycles batch. Can I assume that the Roco has the dw-link tune already done on it from the factory, or am I going to have to break it open and take a look at the shim stack to know for sure?
Is there any other way to tell?
I just bought one that has the Roco WC shock on it from that rscycles batch. Can I assume that the Roco has the dw-link tune already done on it from the factory, or am I going to have to break it open and take a look at the shim stack to know for sure?
Is there any other way to tell?
Struggling to find base settings for a new style CCDB on a Sunday? Fully kitted around 15stone, got a 350lb spring on the basis of tftuned spring calculator.
The CCDB does well with a harder spring than what you would run on another shock, worth checking sag to see if you're getting 33-35% and preferably no more. I would suspect at your weight you might need a 375-400 spring to achieve that on the CC, but your sag will tell you for sure.
In terms of settings, I found the shock worked best if you kept both low speed adjusters backed off (start them at zero clicks in), and then used the HS adjusters alone. I would suggest 2 - 2 1/4 turns in of both HSC and HSR as a starting point for your weight, and then fine tune to taste, you can use the LS adjusters to help as well.
Reasoning here is that the lighter LS translates to better sensitivity and more pop for obstacles, while the heaver HS settings give stronger mid-speed damping for support. I found the theory worked pretty well in practice.
In terms of settings, I found the shock worked best if you kept both low speed adjusters backed off (start them at zero clicks in), and then used the HS adjusters alone. I would suggest 2 - 2 1/4 turns in of both HSC and HSR as a starting point for your weight, and then fine tune to taste, you can use the LS adjusters to help as well.
Reasoning here is that the lighter LS translates to better sensitivity and more pop for obstacles, while the heaver HS settings give stronger mid-speed damping for support. I found the theory worked pretty well in practice.
Thats interesting, and the opposite of what the tftuned calculator said! They reckon 340 for CCDB and 380 on Fox. I have 350/400lb springs for my DHX5, and 350/450 for my Canecreek, can't seem to find a 400lb Canecreek in the UK atm.
Oh wow, I just realised that TF grouped the CCDB with the 5th and Manitou. They couldn't be more wrong! Those shocks are firmer than the CC, from both platform valving AND larger shock shafts. They also have progressive damping (more end-stroke resistance).
I'd suggest using the Fox/Marz/RS number at the very least, personally I've found adding 25lbs to that figure got me in the ballpark for the CC. Like I said though, measure your rear sag as it'll tell you what you need to know.
If it's 33% you're cooking with gas, if it's over 35% I'd consider going up a rate.
I'd suggest using the Fox/Marz/RS number at the very least, personally I've found adding 25lbs to that figure got me in the ballpark for the CC. Like I said though, measure your rear sag as it'll tell you what you need to know.
If it's 33% you're cooking with gas, if it's over 35% I'd consider going up a rate.
Looks like I'm bang on 400lb then. I don't have cranks for the bike yet so wanted to get the spring sorted so I can ride it when it arrives, sag isn't really an option yet.
how much is 15 stone in kg?
I'm running the Canecreek with a 350 spring - originally they send me a 250 - then had to go up to 300 because it was unridable - and now I'm more than happy with the 350 - i was finally able to open up the compression and rebound without bottoming and having the bike ride a bit higher in travel (i installed -2degree cups) is much more comfortable - i feel its carryingspeed much better,but also tracks the ground better at high speeds and lets me take lines i couldnt before
oh btw i'm 73 kg = 160 lbs according to google
my settings are (all from full open)
+1 or 2 clicks on both low speed rebound and comp.
and half to 3/4 of a turn on high speed rebound and comp
just googled how much 15 stone is- 95 kg? depending on how you like your ride i would suggest at least a 450 personally i found it much better with the stiffer spring - i see no advantage in using full travel, when at the same time the rear wheel feels like dragging me down and not tracking well - but much of that is up to preference and terrain where you ride
I'm running the Canecreek with a 350 spring - originally they send me a 250 - then had to go up to 300 because it was unridable - and now I'm more than happy with the 350 - i was finally able to open up the compression and rebound without bottoming and having the bike ride a bit higher in travel (i installed -2degree cups) is much more comfortable - i feel its carryingspeed much better,but also tracks the ground better at high speeds and lets me take lines i couldnt before
oh btw i'm 73 kg = 160 lbs according to google
my settings are (all from full open)
+1 or 2 clicks on both low speed rebound and comp.
and half to 3/4 of a turn on high speed rebound and comp
just googled how much 15 stone is- 95 kg? depending on how you like your ride i would suggest at least a 450 personally i found it much better with the stiffer spring - i see no advantage in using full travel, when at the same time the rear wheel feels like dragging me down and not tracking well - but much of that is up to preference and terrain where you ride
Yeah, 95kg. Riding wise, I'm not a plougher, just come back to a Sunday from a 224. However a lot of the tracks around here are steep loam, rather than flat out rocks.
What are your settings like? Similar to Udi with everything woung off and 2turns of high speed?
I can get a 450lb easily as the lbs have one in stock, whereas I can't pick up a 400lb very easy, if it is way too heavy I'll order a manitou off CRC.
What are your settings like? Similar to Udi with everything woung off and 2turns of high speed?
I can get a 450lb easily as the lbs have one in stock, whereas I can't pick up a 400lb very easy, if it is way too heavy I'll order a manitou off CRC.
as i wrote, my settings are HS just about 1 to 1 and a half turn, and LS each one cklick, or nothing - depending on the track
I ride on pretty steep and rough stuff with it here, and it works really well
if your lbs lets you try the 450 go for it and give it a chance
careful, I'm not 100% sure but i think manitou springs dont fit on the CCDB
I ride on pretty steep and rough stuff with it here, and it works really well
if your lbs lets you try the 450 go for it and give it a chance
careful, I'm not 100% sure but i think manitou springs dont fit on the CCDB
I'd try the 400 first, especially if your tracks are steep; as a steeper track transfers more weight to the front of the bike. Erring towards too soft is better than too hard in this case.
As for my settings, it's just a starting point. I weigh less than you so I adjusted the figures to suit - feel free to adjust the LS adjusters to taste, I think you can safely run 5-6 clicks on each without affecting sensitivity and pop too much. I just figured you might like a starting point, since the numbers in the manual are completely useless/irrelevant.
I think manitou springs are o/k (1.43 ID), a friend of mine ran one and it worked fine. I ran a DSP (1.43 ID also) with no black plastic on the body, and didn't have any rubbing. Fox and progressive springs are no good however.
Good luck!
always take udis opinion over mine!
but seriously, i would just try more than one spring! - it can change the ride caracterisitics of bike so much! and even though i do have very steep terrain arround here (schladming style - and more at places - just not so flowy
) i do prefer the harder one if its not too muddy! I have some geometry questions i would like to discuss with you guys.
http://www.madcatzracing.com/media_pdf/dirt-DT70_PRObikeHILL.pdf
In this article you can see that Sam Hill's frame, although it was marked as a medium size, it had the downtube lenght of a size large production bike and a 63.75º head angle and 300lb rear spring (Sam hill is 5.7"/1,75m tall and 165pounds/75kg).
My questions:
- If i buy a production size large IH Sunday and fit it with -2º reducer head angle, will i have the same geometry has Sam Hill's frame?
- Using a 300lb spring for a 75kg guy (not rider weight) is due to that funky geometry? Will a larger and slacker frame need a softer spring? (aside from riding style)
- with the -2º head angle do you think it needs a much softer front suspention spring?
I have this questions so i can buy another Sunday frame, as i want one to be a pure and fast DH bike and the other a light and ninble park/DH bike. (currently i own a 2008 IH Sunday WC full BOS, 325lb spring, -2º head angle. I'm 5,9"/1,80m and 176lbs/80kg weight, not rider weight).
Thanks!
http://www.madcatzracing.com/media_pdf/dirt-DT70_PRObikeHILL.pdf
In this article you can see that Sam Hill's frame, although it was marked as a medium size, it had the downtube lenght of a size large production bike and a 63.75º head angle and 300lb rear spring (Sam hill is 5.7"/1,75m tall and 165pounds/75kg).
My questions:
- If i buy a production size large IH Sunday and fit it with -2º reducer head angle, will i have the same geometry has Sam Hill's frame?
- Using a 300lb spring for a 75kg guy (not rider weight) is due to that funky geometry? Will a larger and slacker frame need a softer spring? (aside from riding style)
- with the -2º head angle do you think it needs a much softer front suspention spring?
I have this questions so i can buy another Sunday frame, as i want one to be a pure and fast DH bike and the other a light and ninble park/DH bike. (currently i own a 2008 IH Sunday WC full BOS, 325lb spring, -2º head angle. I'm 5,9"/1,80m and 176lbs/80kg weight, not rider weight).
Thanks!
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msg too short
Just a quick question about the shock hardware on the Sunday. The answer is probably in this thread somewhere but I have only made it to page 80 so far and I am gonna ride the bike tonight.
I have just finished refurbing a second frame I bought and I fitted some new shock hardware, du bushes, reducers etc. Question is what rotates on what? The reducer bar was a serious tight squezze to get through the du bushes so I'm guessing it doesent rotate inside the du bushes? And as the inside of the reducer bar is coated in some kind of "stuff" I'm guessing it rotates on the shock pin? Stupid question but I just wanna check.
Thanks
I have just finished refurbing a second frame I bought and I fitted some new shock hardware, du bushes, reducers etc. Question is what rotates on what? The reducer bar was a serious tight squezze to get through the du bushes so I'm guessing it doesent rotate inside the du bushes? And as the inside of the reducer bar is coated in some kind of "stuff" I'm guessing it rotates on the shock pin? Stupid question but I just wanna check.
Thanks
Ribas -
I agree with Ev. I think the closest you'll get to Hill's geometry will be with a medium frame and slacker cups. I think -2* will actually give you a slacker frame than Hill's (which personally I'd only do if you're riding quite steep tracks regularly and flatter ones rarely). Personally I found the bike worked well with -1* cups and the fork pushed down in the crowns, which (with my 40) leaves the head angle at just under 63 (I think it was about 62.5* according to iphone - left/right averaged) and also gives you a bit more BB clearance for rough tracks with deep holes.
I just measured my current geometry:
1176mm / 46.3" wheelbase
354mm / 13.9" bb height
62.5* head angle
(Fox fork and shock, fork at maximum height)
You can obviously bring the BB lower and steepen HA with the fork if needed. I run flat bars at 788mm width to counteract the taller fork setting.
You'll notice that wheelbase is slightly longer than the large frame (46.25"), even though I have a medium frame. I would also strongly recommend an RC4 shock over the BOS (I have both) as it is much better suited to the frame. The BOS also has a slightly shorter eye-to-eye length (240mm instead of the proper 9.5"/241.3mm and 76mm stroke instead of 3"/76.2mm) so geometry and travel will vary slightly.
You might find my setup interesting because I am identical to you in weight and height. I'm 180cm which is actually 5'11" and weigh 80kg with gear (maybe 75kg without gear). Fox RC4 with 300lbs is perfect, as the Fox needs a lighter spring than the BOS. I have a 325lb on my BOS just like you, as 300 is too soft on it.
Craigyboy -
The reducer must rotate inside the DU bush. A tight fit is normal, but not good - what you can do is clamp the reducer in a soft jawed vice, giving yourself as much rotation room as possible, and rotate the shock around the reducer (which should be clamped firmly) back and forth by hand until the fit is not so tight. The reducer is the hollow cylinder that slides into the DU bush (red coated thing), and the shock pin is what goes through the lot. The reducer shouldn't rotate on the shock pin. Hope that helps!
I agree with Ev. I think the closest you'll get to Hill's geometry will be with a medium frame and slacker cups. I think -2* will actually give you a slacker frame than Hill's (which personally I'd only do if you're riding quite steep tracks regularly and flatter ones rarely). Personally I found the bike worked well with -1* cups and the fork pushed down in the crowns, which (with my 40) leaves the head angle at just under 63 (I think it was about 62.5* according to iphone - left/right averaged) and also gives you a bit more BB clearance for rough tracks with deep holes.
I just measured my current geometry:
1176mm / 46.3" wheelbase
354mm / 13.9" bb height
62.5* head angle
(Fox fork and shock, fork at maximum height)
You can obviously bring the BB lower and steepen HA with the fork if needed. I run flat bars at 788mm width to counteract the taller fork setting.
You'll notice that wheelbase is slightly longer than the large frame (46.25"), even though I have a medium frame. I would also strongly recommend an RC4 shock over the BOS (I have both) as it is much better suited to the frame. The BOS also has a slightly shorter eye-to-eye length (240mm instead of the proper 9.5"/241.3mm and 76mm stroke instead of 3"/76.2mm) so geometry and travel will vary slightly.
You might find my setup interesting because I am identical to you in weight and height. I'm 180cm which is actually 5'11" and weigh 80kg with gear (maybe 75kg without gear). Fox RC4 with 300lbs is perfect, as the Fox needs a lighter spring than the BOS. I have a 325lb on my BOS just like you, as 300 is too soft on it.
Craigyboy -
The reducer must rotate inside the DU bush. A tight fit is normal, but not good - what you can do is clamp the reducer in a soft jawed vice, giving yourself as much rotation room as possible, and rotate the shock around the reducer (which should be clamped firmly) back and forth by hand until the fit is not so tight. The reducer is the hollow cylinder that slides into the DU bush (red coated thing), and the shock pin is what goes through the lot. The reducer shouldn't rotate on the shock pin. Hope that helps!
Hey guys.
Yesterday I rode my Sunday for the first time since I installed the -1,5° AngleSet. I really can say that the Sunday does feel much more like a real DH-bike now. It is still very agile but also feels more stable on rough terrain and high speed sections. I love it even more than before!
...I also think that those sweet Kaisers to their part for the awesome feeling as well.
I ride a M frame with a Fox40 and I am approx. 184cm tall.
Here's a picture of my current setup:
There is also one thing which seems very important for me when changing the head angle... I think it is essential for the geometry of the frame to change the lenght of the fork to keep the bottom bracket where it is supposed to be. I calculated that the fork has to be around 8mm longer to keep the geometry of the frame. It was absolutely no problem to achieve this with the fox40 as it is slightly longer than the boxxers, but when running an boxxer I'd recommend to check if it's possible before installing the angled headset.
If you re asking why I think its that important... I tried to influence the head angle before I got the angled set by pushing the stanchion as far as possible through the crowns. I achieved a head angle of approx. 64°, but the bottom bracket was quite high. On the trail the bike felt awful for me. After placing the stanchions again where they are supposed to be, it felt good again and so I think virtually shortening the length of the fork and lowering the front by slackening the head angle wouldn't feel good either.
Yesterday I rode my Sunday for the first time since I installed the -1,5° AngleSet. I really can say that the Sunday does feel much more like a real DH-bike now. It is still very agile but also feels more stable on rough terrain and high speed sections. I love it even more than before!
...I also think that those sweet Kaisers to their part for the awesome feeling as well.
I ride a M frame with a Fox40 and I am approx. 184cm tall.
Here's a picture of my current setup:
There is also one thing which seems very important for me when changing the head angle... I think it is essential for the geometry of the frame to change the lenght of the fork to keep the bottom bracket where it is supposed to be. I calculated that the fork has to be around 8mm longer to keep the geometry of the frame. It was absolutely no problem to achieve this with the fox40 as it is slightly longer than the boxxers, but when running an boxxer I'd recommend to check if it's possible before installing the angled headset.
If you re asking why I think its that important... I tried to influence the head angle before I got the angled set by pushing the stanchion as far as possible through the crowns. I achieved a head angle of approx. 64°, but the bottom bracket was quite high. On the trail the bike felt awful for me. After placing the stanchions again where they are supposed to be, it felt good again and so I think virtually shortening the length of the fork and lowering the front by slackening the head angle wouldn't feel good either.
I thought I should throw up my most recent setup.
I originally went with a -1.5* angle set.
I have a 0* on the bottom and -1.5" up top. It felt really comfortable, but I wanted the wheelbased stretched a little bit further.
I flipped the -1.5* cup to the bottom and slapped a -1.0* cup up top. I haven't measured the angle that it's at now. However, with my Boxxer maxed out on the stanchions I've got a 46.625" wheelbase and a 13.5" exact bottom bracket height(with a 2.5 chunder out back and 2.5 DHF up front). The frame is a medium.
I'm going to drop the crowns about .125" and go to a 2.5 Highroller in the back with will drop the BB height a touch and shorten the wheelbase a touch as well.
Overall, I'm really happy with the geometry now. Even in the tight technical stuff we've got here in the PNW the bike feels quicker and snappier than my '2010 Demo was.
I'll bump to a 350lb spring on the DHX5.0 and see if that can't help. I get proper sag at 160lbs with a 300lb spring but I'm not satisfied with the compliance/mid stroke/bottom out.
I won't buy a new shock as I'm going to focus on SuperD's this year so I'll just run it as is for a while and live with it.
-Kevin
I'm curious how this works out. We're both on the same size frame(medium) and our wheel base is essentially a half inch different and nearly a half inch difference in bottom bracket height but we should be around the same in head angle.
I have a US made '07 Elite frame. I know the original purchaser of the frame got it warrantied because the geometry was way off. It had a mix of small and large measurements(small top tube, large seat tube/wheelbase if I recall correctly)
May aswell jump on the bandwagon
-2 Cups, 63 HA, 46.3 WB, 13.4" BB with the forks maxed out in the crowns. I'll find out what my settings were for my RC4 but I'm pretty sure they were 180psi, full bottom out, 9/18 clicks lsc, and like 3 or 4 clicks of hsc, really similar to the settings recommended on an old thread for the RC4 sunday. Feels really good but I'd still be interested to hear what other peoples setups are. I'm around 75kg and running a 300lb spring with the enduro needle bearing kit and it feels great.
Feels much better with the 28mm straitline than the 50mm funn I had on before, I'm around 5'7-8 and was feeling a bit stretched out on the medium frame but it feels great now.
-2 Cups, 63 HA, 46.3 WB, 13.4" BB with the forks maxed out in the crowns. I'll find out what my settings were for my RC4 but I'm pretty sure they were 180psi, full bottom out, 9/18 clicks lsc, and like 3 or 4 clicks of hsc, really similar to the settings recommended on an old thread for the RC4 sunday. Feels really good but I'd still be interested to hear what other peoples setups are. I'm around 75kg and running a 300lb spring with the enduro needle bearing kit and it feels great.
Feels much better with the 28mm straitline than the 50mm funn I had on before, I'm around 5'7-8 and was feeling a bit stretched out on the medium frame but it feels great now.
It's interesting seeing everyone's setups!
I had my bike at 13.5" when I first got here, but completely destroyed an LG1+ bash (36t) after a month riding in the alps (we were riding some pretty rocky tracks) so after I raised the BB a little I found I could ride faster through rocks/holes. I will probably bring it back down to 13.7-13.8 now that the chairlifts have opened.
I want to try a -1.5 cup set (with the higher fork / lower bars), pretty sure I won't get the BB where I like with -2.
I had my bike at 13.5" when I first got here, but completely destroyed an LG1+ bash (36t) after a month riding in the alps (we were riding some pretty rocky tracks) so after I raised the BB a little I found I could ride faster through rocks/holes. I will probably bring it back down to 13.7-13.8 now that the chairlifts have opened.
My fork is at max height (will be lowering it a little) and because it's a 40, it has longer stanchions = taller at max height than a Boxxer. If I drop it all the way, the BB is about 13.4 - 13.5". Also, I only have -1 cups, from what I can gather you're -2.5 in total? Anyway slacker cups = longer wheelbase, so that explains that.
I want to try a -1.5 cup set (with the higher fork / lower bars), pretty sure I won't get the BB where I like with -2.
I didn't think that the 40 was that much taller than the Boxxer so that would explain alot.
I know mathematically the cups on my bike equal 2.5* offset but I haven't taken the time to measure the headangle to see what it does actually equal out to. I'll measure tomorrow. I figured with your headset being at 62.5 my headangle would be right around the same 63* headangle our wheelbases would be much more similar.