[Udi]

Al - I think needle bearings are a bad idea on a low rotation pivot as wear is greatly accelerated, and even on the top pivot I found life before play developed quite short. I found an easy solution to the excessive friction in standard DU bushings is to lathe down the OD of the bushing slightly so it is not clamped as much when pressed into the eyelet, thus decreasing friction greatly. Done correctly, reducer hardware will press in by hand.

This is the new Fox "five piece" hardware you speak of, which seems to work quite well too:
http://www.foxracingshox.com/technology.php?m=bike&t=mh&ref=topnav
It uses IGUS glide bushings.

 

[allen]

UDI, thanks for the fox info. Im in agreement on the rwc stuff. It was kinda like choosing between two evils but your tip of tweaking the du is cool. I'll have to give it a try when I go over things for next season on my bike and my friends if for some reason I can't get the fox stuff.

Al

 

[An0maly]

23x8mm on the older pre F7.

Some may disagree on the play or need for a bearing on the lower shock eye but I'm a fan of the RWC bearing on the older pre F7 lower link. I find its hard to get everything to squeeze together adequately when you tighten the lower pin and keep shock reducer bushing from spinning instead of the du busing rotating around the shock reducer.

On my friends with the older link running updated max-e bearings and the addition of shims from mcmaster we got that thing dialed. It took and allot of patience but it can be done.

The F7 fixes all this so that's why its such a recommended up grade.

I thought I read somewhere that Fox has some new busing instead of a DU that is less friction. That would be sweet instead of the RWC bearing. Any one have a link to that info?


Al

I have the new fox ones in the top. Only just put them in so can't comment on durability or anything yet but they do look nice.

 

[4130biker]

Thanks for the input- I think I'll keep looking for an 07+ then. Sounds worth the wait to me. I got excited when I saw a large for sale- it seems like they aren't as common.

 

[ritche]

I picked up a 9.5x 3.00 kashima fox rc4 shox, with a sticker that says F TUNE any idea what it is?
Is it ok to use it on IH sunday?

 

[richgardiner]

Building up my 09wc, does it matter which side the black and silver jumbo hex bolts go on? I know the shock pin can only pass through them in a certain direction but does it matter which way around we have the hex bolts?

 

[bengxe]

I guess you could swap them, but you probably want the axle to go out the non-drive side.

 

[Udi]

As above, axle slides out of the non-drive side in factory form (bigger ID hole on non-drive side). I'd keep it that way, as it means you can remove shocks without touching the chainguide. If you swapped them, it might make that harder.

ritche -
I've never heard of that before, doesn't sound like a fox tune, try it and see.

 

[AndySTi]

Anyone here running a CCDB with a 350lb steel spring (or even just a CCDB in general)? I'm interested to know your settings. I'm running:

• 3 turns of pre-load
• 2 turns HSC & 5 clicks LSC
• 3 turns HSR & 10 clicks LSR

I'm 64kg / 141lbs with gear.

 

[RajunCajunNC]

300lb steel spring, sag is 25-30%.

1.5 turns of HSC
17 clicks of LSC
.5 turns HSR
9 clicks LSR

* Note: all setting turns in from full fast/full open.

 

[AndySTi]

300lb steel spring, sag is 25-30%.

1.5 turns of HSC
17 clicks of LSC
.5 turns HSR
9 clicks LSR

* Note: all setting turns in from full fast/full open.

How much do you weigh with gear? I was also on a 300lb steel spring, however, I found it a bit on the soft side. Moving to 350lb has definitely improved things for me.

 

[RajunCajunNC]

150ish for me. I was running closer to 40% sag with more lsc and hsc, but found the bike to be more stable when things get moving with less sag and a little softer compression tune. Side note also is I run the Boxxer rc with 5% sag up front and compression set 3 clicks from full closed with a med spring. This gives me a stiff bike, but it fells awesome when pushing it.

 

[Mourad Ben]

Sunday proto for more pictures ->https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.453195388079125.98971.394143670650964&type=1

 

[Grisha]

Hey guys,
I've got a serious problem with the shock (Flox Float R) in my Iron Horse MK3.
I used to have huge horizontal play in the lower DW-Link. I fitted spacers between the link and the rear part of the bike and the play was gone.
But soon my shock started to lose travel, it "sucked itself in" with every ride, no matter how much air I would pump into it until it only had about 1cm of stroke. I thought some seal must be broken and all the air goes into the negative air chamber (I don't really know how a shock exactly works, so I'm not sure if that's really the problem). I thought this may be a result of the horizontal play, as the shock experienced quite a lot of horizontal force.
So I bought a used one which first worked perfectly, but after a short time of riding (like 5 Minutes) it started to have the exact same problem as the first one.
I have no clue what could be wrong. I thought maybe the rear of the bike isn't central, but I fitted the same amount of spacers left and right from the link and it looks alright.
I also ride the shock up-side-down, but I saw this in many pictures of the MK3 and I think it shouldn't make any difference to the shock. I fitted off-set-bushings, but this also shouldn't make any difference.

I really hope someone can help me, as I like the bike and can't afford to get another one, because I also need a new DH bike.

Sorry for my bad English, I'm German and they didn't teach us any technical vocabulary in school ^^

 

[sundaydoug]

Is the shock stuck down? In other words, is it not rebounding to its original position once compressed?

If so, just google "Fox shock stuck down" and you'll find some info. Apparently it's somewhat common and doesn't mean your shock is ruined, just might need a rebuild.

 

[Grisha]

Hey,
thanks, that sounds like it!
I was wondering why it happens with two different shocks, so I thought something is wrong with the frame, but in another thread here it says this can happen when riding at sub zero temperatures. I should probably try a rock shocks shock, as I mostly use the MK3 in the off season :/

 

[AndySTi]

150ish for me. I was running closer to 40% sag with more lsc and hsc, but found the bike to be more stable when things get moving with less sag and a little softer compression tune. Side note also is I run the Boxxer rc with 5% sag up front and compression set 3 clicks from full closed with a med spring. This gives me a stiff bike, but it fells awesome when pushing it.

I'd say give the 350lb spring ago. You're heavier than me with gear and I think it should suite you. The bike will also feel more balanced. My cornering has improved since moving to 350lb and I'm getting decent support from the middle towards the end of the stroke. In regards, to rough sections, my first impressions with the 350lb are positive. With 300lb I was bottoming out frequently and it wasn't pleasant to ride, especially in the rough. Moving to 350lb has put a smile on my face as the ride is much more balanced and for once I'm getting the correct sag. Looking to get some 350lb Ti goodness now.

In regards to 300lb, my settings were:

• 3 turns of pre-load
• 2.5 tuns HSC & 8 clicks LSC
• 2 turns HSR & 5 clicks LSR

 

[juanpkumicho]

Hey Udi, and everybody here, what's up?

I was reading the Sunday thread, and I know it may be kinda old but anyway I wanted to ask. My Sunday developed play in the lower link, where it meets the rear triangle. I thought the play was due to the inner races not reaching the lower link. So I made myself a 0.8mm thick washer in a lathe, and assembled everything back together (new pin, new bearings) and the play seems to be gone, which makes sense. Now, I could buy the locktite bearing retainer that Udi recommended here in the thread, and use it between the pin and the link, but I would rather not do it unless it is necessary, what do you think?

With the spacer I made, now the inner races clamp the lower link nicely and they all move together (instead of the lower link sliding on the pin like before), but I don´t know if maybe under load there will still be some radial play.

Your opinion is much appreciated fellow Sunday riders.

Thanks in advance!

 

[sundaydoug]

I would just take it apart and re-assemble with Loctite around the pin and inside of the lower link. I know that I had play in between the link and pin for a couple of seasons before I took it apart and re-assembled it with the Loctite compound. I rode it all season like that and the play hasn't come back.

My guess is that the play may have caused the bore of the lower link to become just a tiny bit larger, so that even with a new pin play might still develop again. Might as well just get it over with and not have to worry about it.

 

[Udi]

As above, it is not the pin that wears, rather the inside of the lower link. I've never seen a case where the bearing inner race didn't reach the lower link (however it might be possible if there is paint in the bearing seat, or some other defect).

If the play is gone then maybe just leave it alone, but for next time you disassemble it, it's probably not a bad idea to use the 609 compound because it stops the link rotating on the pivot axle. The reason play often develops in the first place is because those two parts move against each other when they shouldn't, so the retaining compound can be thought of as preventative maintenance as well as a solution to when the play develops.

 

[juanpkumicho]

Well, I don't really know how tight is the original fitting between the pin and the link, but the link doesn't seem to have too much wear, just the natural marks, and the pin goes in as tight as it goes into the bearings (tight but with enough clearance to slide it easily). Anyway, the locktite option seems to be the way to double ensure that I will not have further play develop.
OK. Is it too difficult to take the pin out after using the 609 compound? Cause that's what I am worried about. The pin I just replace was stuck to the bearings inner race so bad that I had to use a hydraulic press and it still needed a LOT of pressure to come loose.
So, 609 between the pin and the link, and between the outter bearing races and the rear triangle too, right? (one of my bearings can be placed and removed by hand, doesn't seem to have play, but I think it is at the very starting point to develop play in the future)
One last thing, I think here in Spain I can only find (without spending 2 weeks looking for it I mean) Loctite 603, not 609, what do you think?

It is unbelievable that this threads continues, with so much good info and people!

 

[the_maxis_233]

I think here in Spain I can only find (without spending 2 weeks looking for it I mean) Loctite 603, not 609, what do you think?

It is unbelievable that this threads continues, with so much good info and people!

I bought Loctite 603 (only find this on local shops), but i don't test yet because i am waiting for a brand new dw lower link.

 

[Udi]

It will be harder to take the pin out once loctited, but generally just using a longer bolt inserted into the pin (after removing the 4mm-head countersink screws and bearing cap) along with a hammer has broken the 609 bond for me.

As for 603 I think it will work fine, you can compare datasheets for 603 and 609. From my brief look at those, 603 has a higher bond strength that withstands greater forces - so it may be more difficult to undo as well, which perhaps isn't ideal for you.

It would be wise to use some of the compound on the outside of the bearing that you can install by hand (presumably you mean in its seat in the frame). The bearing should not slide in and out by hand generally.

If there is zero play in your current setup perhaps it would be good to just wait, especially if it means you are restricted to the stronger loctite product and are concerned about future disassembly.

 

[Rocko]

How much does it acceptable if the shock has some lateral play on the lower end, when slided into the link?

My frame used to have stock enduro bearings ('08 font & '09 rear) which are rotten on the two 22mm screw. I've changed them to normal ones from a local store + made spacers. Sanded down by hand (and a caliper, to make them equal) to have the proper hight till the link doesn't needs.
I thought it will eliminate the play. Due the bearings come out together with the screws, I had the idea that the bearings doesn't seat properly and stretches the link...

 

[Udi]

Is the amount of play the same as (or less than) before you installed the new bearings and spacers? It should be fine as long as there is no play when the shock pin is installed and tightened.

 

[juanpkumicho]

Well, I don't feel too good about breaking the bike apart again soon in the future so to be sure I don't get play there never again I will use the 603 in the pin. I'll let you know how it went.
I owe you guys a photo of my rocket, I will upload it later this weekend.

 

[Rocko]

It has less play than before. I checked it without the pin. There's about 2-3mm play.

 

[BmxConvert]

My new rims, wheels, bars, pedals, stem shipped this week. New fork, brakes, derailleur, shifter, Ti spring for the new shock, and replacement bearings for the frame and hubs will be going out next week. I figured I should tear into the Sunday and get it ready for fresh paint.
I decided to do as others have done and cut out the uprights. I got the rough cuts done and it went pretty quick switching between 2 dremel bits. I still need to do the clean up work with a file and some sand paper. I took out a bit more material than Udi and others have but.. It should be fine.

While this will be my last season on the frame as it's just getting too old, I'm pretty sure without the thread as motivation and help I probably would have dumped the frame a while back.

 

[kuzlich]

Hello guys. Just in case I apologize for my bad English.

I buy an Large Iron Horse Sunday Factory 2008 with pushed and tf tuned DHX 4.0 and already have K9 -2 degrees cups. All parts will be from my Giant Glory 0.

I know that the intense 951 have a problem with e13lg1+ cranks, what about Sunday? Anybody have a Sunday whith this cranks?
And where I can buy an upgrade Kit with Bottom out adjustment for my dhx 4.0?

 

[csermonet]

I am not sure how a Pushed and TF tuned dhx 4.0 performs but i would look into getting a used dhx rc4. can be had pretty cheap these days and are a great damper. as far as the cranks, its hard to say without having the parts and frame in front of me. maybe one of the sunday guys in here has tried and has some experience they can chime in with.

 

[tosam]

Helle everyone.
I'm new on this website and i come to few questions.
Firstly, sorry for my bad english, i'm french ...

Ok, i have a Sunday Elite 2009 and i want to change the shock !
I think i will buy a Double Barrel Coil (or a Bos stoy, i don't know).

But i don't know if i can take the double barrel on my stock sunday or if i need to buy the BOS linkage !

Can You help me

Thank's

Tosam

 

[Tomasis]

tosam and other, rc4 is best suited damper for sunday frame, period.

btw does anybody has frame in large size without rear linkage or damaged?

 

[tosam]

You think the rc4 is the best shock for the sunday ?

Sorry but i don't understant the second sentence. My frame is small size

 

[Tomasis]

tosam, yes because the frame suspension linkage requires some sort of progression that suits rc4 nicely. Sunday frame designer Dave said that it suits as glove.

Sorry for misunderstanding for second sentence as it was meant to everybody as Im looking to replace small with large in case.

 

[tosam]

Ok, thank you very much. I will put a RC4 on my sunday, and it's the less expensive ! good thing !

Some pictures of my sunday

 

[kuzlich]

I am not sure how a Pushed and TF tuned dhx 4.0 performs but i would look into getting a used dhx rc4. can be had pretty cheap these days and are a great damper.

Snx for your answer.

On my glory I used Vivid 5.1 and it works pretty cool.
My friend have a Giant faith 2007 with usual(not tuned) dhx 4.0 and it works like a ****. Maybe it's because a suspension kinematics of the "faith" not adapt for the downhill and dhx 4.0 doesn't fit to this frame but my first impressions was very bad.
That's why I think to use vivid on the sunday. But after reading this thread - I decided try to use tuned dhx. And if work will be not so good - I will swap it on the rc4/vivid r2c.

Some pictures of my sunday

Looks nice, but with Totem front of bike will be to low and your hands will get more compression, you don't think so?
And why you decided to change Vivid?

 

[tosam]

Yes front of bike is a litle to low but the Sunday Elite was sent with a Totem ...
For Freeride or Jump it's a pleasure but in Downhill it's a nightmare, there isn't any stability ... I will change for a 888 rc3 evo Ti.
I change the Vivid because it's old and there is an air leak !

So, if i want to put a RC4, i need to change the linkage or not ?

 

[msaman]

Yes front of bike is a litle to low but the Sunday Elite was sent with a Totem ...
For Freeride or Jump it's a pleasure but in Downhill it's a nightmare, there isn't any stability ... I will change for a 888 rc3 evo Ti.
I change the Vivid because it's old and there is an air leak !

So, if i want to put a RC4, i need to change the linkage or not ?

It's up to you basically
You can either change it to BOS linkage or just cut yours as many of us did with ours .
Depends on your account balance

 

[cowman]

Any Pivot Phoenix riders around here? I'm about 195 lbs and curious to hear what rear shock setups others are running with the RC4. I'm toying around with both the 400# and 450# springs while increasing/backing off compression damping accordingly. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[juanpkumicho]

Hi to all,

I didn't have time to report back but the linkage repair was a total success.
I just finished (literally) putting the rocket back together and it is amazing. However I will not ride it this weekend because tomorrow I'm gonna service my new (used, recently bought) Boxxer WC.

Since the shock topic showed up again, I have a pushed DHX and I really like it, but sincerely, I've never tried anything else in the Sunday (except for a Marz Rocco in my friend's Sunday Expert).

Has anyone here compared a Pushed (or tuned) DHX to the RC4, what difference should one expect?

I will post photos of my bike, just give me a little time!