[The Toninator]

The church formally known as the Summit was opened this weekend. It seats 16,000. The Saturday night service, the first ever at the new facility, was standing room only and they turned away more that 3,000 people. The traffic was a nightmare, I was going to a restaurant close by, luckily I know the area well and was going opposite were everybody else was. The traffic started stacking up 2 hours before the service.
They had the total of 4 services this weekend including one entirely in Spanish. 4X16,000. that’s a lot of holiness.
It makes me nervous all those Christians together in the same place every week. They get together start talking and the next thing you somebodys nailed to a cross etc.

 

[stosh]

The church formally known as the Summit was opened this weekend. It seats 16,000. The Saturday night service, the first ever at the new facility, was standing room only and they turned away more that 3,000 people. The traffic was a nightmare, I was going to a restaurant close by, luckily I know the area well and was going opposite were everybody else was. The traffic started stacking up 2 hours before the service.
They had the total of 4 services this weekend including one entirely in Spanish. 4X16,000. that’s a lot of holiness.
It makes me nervous all those Christians together in the same place every week. They get together start talking and the next thing you somebodys nailed to a cross etc.

or elected president.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Mega churches are very interesting entities.

Do they have a website? I'd be interested in seeing what "flavor" they are.

 

[clancy98]

or elected president.

[rimshot]

 

[The Toninator]

Mega churches are very interesting entities.

Do they have a website? I'd be interested in seeing what "flavor" they are.

there's a link in the article.

http://www.click2houston.com/family/4735200/detail.html

 

[gigapower]

Just imagine all the people that could have been helped by that $75 million, instead they had to increase the size of their c-penis.

 

[danW]

...I agree w/Andy...mega church's are "interesting"...the marketing/formulated methods for obtaining "mega" church status is very unispiring from my perspective - actually it's easily obtained as well...the real measure of a "mega" church should be it's effectiveness at the grassroots level serving society's flotsam...just my opinion.........(ok - I'm getting off the soapbox now)

danW

danW

 

[The Toninator]

man i'm both sides of the fence on this. I would really like a little of that action though so i'm going to get internet ordained and start up an internet ministry.

I've got lots of idea's. i'm going to very, very rich. Send me $10.95 and i'll tell you how!

 

[Andyman_1970]

..the real measure of a "mega" church should be it's effectiveness at the grassroots level serving society's flotsam...just my opinion.........(ok - I'm getting off the soapbox now)

I agree, see my next post.................

 

[Lexx D]

Just imagine all the people that could have been helped by that $75 million, instead they had to increase the size of their c-penis.

Exactly what I was thinking.

A guy I work with is a pastor and does alot for his church. He was having money problems(although it didn't stop him from getting take out once or twice a day) but the church passed the collection plate around one day to help him and he ended up getting $1,500 out of it. He used it to buy new wheels and tyres for his car.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Mega churches are interesting from more than one perspective. One thing I think that a mega church “breeds” is a sense of anonymity – that the member can be relatively uninvolved in the community of believers but still come away with the requisite “warm fuzzy” from having been to church and thus reinforce the misconception they are being a “good Christian”. It’s interesting when you read the New Testament about how a community of believers is to live with each other, how connected their lives are to be, it seems that this would be difficult to achieve in a community that size.

I’m not super familiar with Mr. Olsteens teachings I’ve heard he’s a “prosperity Gospel” teacher (I could be wrong) – which I have major theological problems with (it requires one to throw out cultural and historical context). He is however one of the more palatable TV preachers and has the requisite stereotypical TV preacher wife, somewhat attractive, big blonde hair (Mrs. Andyman jokingly refers to it as “Bible” hair) , and a thick southern twang.

On big buildings: my best friends mother-in-law once said when referring to a large church here in Little Rock that was just built (coincidentally former President Bill Clinton’s church) after they built a new extravagant building “that’s a sin” with reference to the use of the money to construct such a building. I would tend to agree with her, Mr. Olsteen could have built a 37.5 mil building that would have accommodated his flock and used the other 37.5 mil to feed people. Most Christians tend to gloss over the story Jesus told about the dude in Hell and the only reason cited for his expulsion into Hell is that he did not take care of the leper outside his house when he had the chance. As followers of Jesus in the most prosperous nation on the earth we have a responsibility to use that wealth responsibly.

 

[Andyman_1970]

A guy I work with is a pastor and does alot for his church. He was having money problems(although it didn't stop him from getting take out once or twice a day) but the church passed the collection plate around one day to help him and he ended up getting $1,500 out of it. He used it to buy new wheels and tyres for his car.

That's awesome. It's those kinds of acts that are described in the NT about how the early church lived with one another, they made sure no one in their midst went without.

It's when churches spend mega $ on a building while ignoring the needs of the community around them that I have a problem with.......Biblically of course.

 

[The Toninator]

The major point of getting a larger facility is to expand their flock. More flock more revenue.
When a church gets to this size it’s only a business and shouldn’t be viewed in any other light no matter what the ‘message.’

 

[TN]

very scary.

 

[Andyman_1970]

The major point of getting a larger facility is to expand their flock. More flock more revenue.

It's probably safe to assume he encourages his flock to tithe in their giving, which of course is a Biblcally false teaching.

 

[Silver]

The major point of getting a larger facility is to expand their flock. More flock more revenue.
When a church gets to this size it’s only a business and shouldn’t be viewed in any other light no matter what the ‘message.’

Tax exempt too...suckers!

Osteen is indeed a "prosperity Gospel" preacher. I've watched him on the TeeVee a couple of times. And you know what? It seems to work for him. (Just as an aside, I noticed over the weekend that Robert Schuller's son and granddaughter live in Laguna Beach. That takes some coin...)

 

[gigapower]

Send

I've got lots of idea's. i'm going to very, very rich. Send me $10.95 and i'll tell you how!

Better yet send me $5 and I will tell you even better information and I will heal you, thats right information and healing only for $5.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Osteen is indeed a "prosperity Gospel" preacher. I've watched him on the TeeVee a couple of times. And you know what? It seems to work for him.

Of course it works for him, he makes a crap load of $ off of it. Who wouldn't buy into a picture of God as nothing more than a cosmic vending machine........."all you have to do is have faith and God will give you a Lexus.....".

The prosperity Gospel feeds into peoples greed and hides the teachings of Jesus and the shocking things He had to say about our material possesions and how we are to view them.

 

[JRogers]

Interesting. I just read an article today over my lunch break abour Olsteen in Christain Century magazine. It was quite critical of his message and methods. Some of the things being mentioned here were brough up in the article.

Based on my limited knowledge of the fellow, I was quite turned off by what his message seems to be. Aside from the theological issues, his ideas seem to parallel one of the problems created by capitalism in the American mind: if we have freedom on opportunity, then isn't it your own fault if you are poor or cannot get a job? If God does not bless you with material, spiritual and personal wealth, doesn't that mean that you have a personal problem with your faith or your mindset and confidence?

 

[Andyman_1970]

If God does not bless you with material, spiritual and personal wealth, doesn't that mean that you have a personal problem with your faith or your mindset and confidence?

It's quite disgusting IMO, and flies in the face of what Jesus taught. These WOF'ers (stands for Word of Faith, which is the general title for the prosperity Gospel movement) focus so much on getting stuff, but rarely do I hear about them providing for the needs of others (regardless of their ability to work or not) which Jesus and the early church in Acts mention frequently. IMO this WOF stuff this is absolutely disgusting and symptomatic of the state of evangelical Christianity in the US.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Interesting. I just read an article today over my lunch break abour Olsteen in Christain Century magazine. It was quite critical of his message and methods. Some of the things being mentioned here were brough up in the article.

Got a link to that article, I'd love to read it.

 

[Flakey Jake]

As long as they keep it in the Church and stay out of politics I'm fine with it.

 

[LOOnatic]

As long as they keep it in the Church and stay out of politics I'm fine with it.

Well, they don't.

 

[Flakey Jake]

I know :|

 

[gigapower]

As long as they keep it in the Church and stay out of politics I'm fine with it.

Too late. Ever heard of the Republican Party?

 

[Andyman_1970]

Too late. Ever heard of the Republican Party?

Although the Republican party claims to be "God's party" neither them nor the Democrats (who have equally at times made the same claim) do squat to further the cause of Jesus.

 

[Silver]

Although the Republican party claims to be "God's party" neither them nor the Democrats (who have equally at times made the same claim) do squat to further the cause of Jesus.

At least Carter acts like a Christian. That was a hell of a step up from cokehead W. (Try to find a Republican Christian male who will say a good thing about an actual Christian instead of a play one...hard to do.)

Anyone think George is going to be building houses for the poor after he's done his term?

 

[Andyman_1970]

At least Carter acts like a Christian.?

Which is the point, how many people who claim to be a Christian actually live like one? Makes that whole "narrow is the path" thing make sense.

(Try to find a Republican Christian male who will say a good thing about an actual Christian instead of a play one...hard to do.)

Yeah, thanks to Catholicism and the Reformation, we Westerners spend too much time defining themselves as a follower of Jesus by what we believe instead of how we live - which interstingly enough is what the Bible says the world will know we are "real", by how we live, not what doctrine we hold to be true.

 

[Changleen]

Although the Republican party claims to be "God's party" neither them nor the Democrats (who have equally at times made the same claim) do squat to further the cause of Jesus.

Well could you PLEASE stop people believing that then? You know, at least the people near you. They could tell 2 people, and they could tell 2 people, and that's like ten people right there.

 

[Changleen]

I vote for putting something in the water to sterilise all these freaks. It's fine to delude yourself, but when you drag your children into a cult of anti-rational beliefs then you're hurting the world. That's what the light brother tells me anyway.

 

[Andyman_1970]

It's fine to delude yourself, but when you drag your children into a cult of anti-rational beliefs then you're hurting the world.

Easy now, don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us take seriously the idea of bringing Heaven to earth in how we live - that whole feed the hungry, water to the thirsty, and clothe the naked - the point would be to make the world a better place.

 

[The Toninator]

Easy now, don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us take seriously the idea of bringing Heaven to earth in how we live - that whole feed the hungry, water to the thirsty, and clothe the naked - the point would be to make the world a better place.

heretic :

 

[Changleen]

Easy now, don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us take seriously the idea of bringing Heaven to earth in how we live - that whole feed the hungry, water to the thirsty, and clothe the naked - the point would be to make the world a better place.

Gah - You missed the other reference. :angry: Try harder!

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

I vote for putting something in the water to sterilise all these freaks..

Amen

 

[JRogers]

Got a link to that article, I'd love to read it.

I read it in hard copy (there are a few good things about working in a library) but here's a link:
http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=1017

 

[gigapower]

Easy now, don't paint us all with the same brush. Some of us take seriously the idea of bringing Heaven to earth in how we live - that whole feed the hungry, water to the thirsty, and clothe the naked - the point would be to make the world a better place.

Really makes me mad to think of all the taxes that I have to pay on my house alone yet this church won't drop a single penny in taxes.....wait a minute, Please join us this Sunday for the Church of gigapower!

Tax free here I come!

 

[Andyman_1970]

I read it in hard copy (there are a few good things about working in a library) but here's a link:
http://www.christiancentury.org/article.lasso?id=1017

Thanks...................

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Healing the sick, clothing the naked, etc. et al is all fine and dandy (and I support that whole-heartedly)....you don't have to have religion to do that...Hell, you don't really need a conscience either...but it helps.

Basically, religion is fine until it's taken to the extreme (and every single religion has been at some point in history). Then it's everyone's problem. And no one seems to be able to fix any of it.... :nuts: