[jimmydean]

I think IF Sanchez beats BJ (I think he has a shot, like you said it will depend on BJ's conditioning) it would be a swarm of punches. There aren't too many dudes on the ground with BJ's skills and flexibility. It would have to be a solid shot and I think Sanchez has the power. I think he has the defense to keep it standing and it would be in his best interest to keep it there.

 

[Leppah]

If BJ fights from here on out the way that he fought against Florian, he'll be unstoppable. BJ was in phenomenal shape for that fight. He actually had some muscle tone. Diego would be an awesome fight for BJ, but i think BJ would submit him. Nobody has knocked out BJ or submitted him.(Correct me if i'm wrong). I think BJ would either cut the Nightmare, or choke him.

GSP doesn't have any good competition in his class. Maybe Rumble Johnson. But nobody has seen his ground game. GSP has been winning everything by wrestling lately. Swick could clock him early, but we also though Alves could have. Didn't happen. GSP probably won't be losing anytime soon either.

Brock. Oh boy. Yeah, if Carwin doesn't catch him with a good hit in the early stage of the fight, he probably won't win. He's a huge dude who's got major knockout power. we haven't really seen Brock's chin tested yet. If Carwin doesn't do it, nobody will for a long time.

Jon Jones. That dude is good. I loved watching him fight Bonnar. He was throwing him around like a rag doll. That dude is unorthodox as hell.

Shogun/Machida. Shogun doesn't stand a chance. He'll get dropped in the second round.

 

[sanjuro]

Yes, Matt Serra caught GSP....but the thing about GSP is that he takes his losses (Hughes, Serra) and improves exactly what beat him...again I reference the T. Alves fight....a lot of people were saying that GSP was gonna get knocked out by Alves who is a top class striker and walks around at 200+lbs, but Alves couldn't touch him....but anyone can catch him on any given night, so he's not "unbeatable". I just rewatched GSP/Penn 2.....unbelievable....his takedowns and g n' p is unprecedented.

Regarding Penn/Sanchez....it largely depends on which Penn shows up to fight....if it's the same guy who fought Florian i'm afraid Diego is in for a tough night. When Penn commits to his training and cardio he is way ahead of everyone at 155.

People need to move past Kimbo's youtube street fighting days....he's been committed to MMA for several years now and takes his schit serisouly...he can be a serious contender in a few years now that he's with Greg Jackson camp...he's got top guys to train with.


Can we make this thread a general UFC and Ultimate Fighter discussion thread...as to not start a new thread every few weeks for the upcomng PPV...?

Speaking of...anyone actually expecting Shogun to inflict any damage on Machida?
I'm expecting big things from Rumble Johnson....

GSP is the perfect example why there will never be a Rocky Marciano of MMA.

He is supposed to be the 2nd best fighter pound-for-pound, but he has lost twice in very weak circumstances: a bad kimura position turned into an armbar and a total mismatch with Serra.

But I'm sick of BJ Penn. That guy is a lazy f***.

If he was dead serious, his training camp would be in Big Bear, not the nightclubs of Hilo.

Fighters for decades would hold their camps in remote locations to focus in isolation. While MMA tends to be year-round training, obviously Penn does not train like GSP.

 

[jimmydean]

GSP is the perfect example why there will never be a Rocky Marciano of MMA.

He is supposed to be the 2nd best fighter pound-for-pound, but he has lost twice in very weak circumstances: a bad kimura position turned into an armbar and a total mismatch with Serra.

I think this speaks volumes about the depth of MMA and how it is much more than boxing could ever be. I enjoy a good boxing match, but there aren't nearly the variables involved. To see a guy dominate a fight only to get caught in a choke and lose is awesome.

I think BJ is the perfect example of natural ability vs, training camp. It's obvious a fighter can go from good to great by working with the right folks. But like any other sport, training can only take anyone so far. BJ has the natural ability so he requires less. Now to remain a champ, he will need to train his ass off, but there are a huge list of dudes he could walk through on short notice. I don't like him, though.

Brock trains in the snow and mountains like Rocky in Rocky 3.

 

[stevew]

 

[Leppah]

^^^^^^Is that old school Jerome Lebanner?

 

[sanjuro]

That was another annoying Kimbo loss.

I swear he must have the weakest back, because after he ends on the ground, its like his legs can't push off.

Maybe if I had a 275lb man laying me, I might be totally done, but you'd think Kimbo would at least try to scramble free.

 

[jimmydean]

"How you supposed to get the moon off of you?" - Rampage

I'm with Dana on the performance Roy put on, it was just enough to not get hit.

 

[sanjuro]

I thought Kimbo was very aggressive on his feet, and he was slamming the fatboy.

I wish they picked another standup fighter against Kimbo.

 

[RUFUS]

"How you supposed to get the moon off of you?" - Rampage

I'm with Dana on the performance Roy put on, it was just enough to not get hit.

Definitely. If Roy was hit cleanly by just one of those shots from Kimbo, he would have just now been waking up.

Bummer that the fight was one sided and he did nothing on his back.

I like Kimbo and his attitude, genuinely nice guy with a great attitude and a pretty good work ethic, I hope he goes far and shuts Dana up.

 

[jimmydean]

Well, it looks like he might get another shot. Dana said he was happy with Kombo's attitude and thought he showed promise. I just can't believe he was that ineffective off his back, he has a lot of work to do there.

 

[Greyhound]

I was so disappointed in that "fight." Hey....let me just somehow or another pin you under muh belly and just punch the top of your head repeatedly. Herb should have stood them up once or twice when it got to that point. He's a better referee than that....maybe that was just "good television" where it makes Roy look just good enough to warrant entry into the UFC and not bad enough to make Kimbo deserve to not get a shot at someone else.

 

[BillT]

You will never see a ref stand up fighters when one has the other in a crucifix position and is throwing free punches at the other guys head (regardless of how effective or ineffective the punches are). That type of position is one of the most dominant positions you can have and it is kinda a shame that Roy didn't actually do more damage the two times he got him there. It was up to Kimbo to <rampage> do something </rampage> and not just sit there. The best thing I can say about this fight is that at least both fighters didn't gas 2 minutes in.

 

[IH8Rice]

I was so disappointed in that "fight." Hey....let me just somehow or another pin you under muh belly and just punch the top of your head repeatedly. Herb should have stood them up once or twice when it got to that point. He's a better referee than that....maybe that was just "good television" where it makes Roy look just good enough to warrant entry into the UFC and not bad enough to make Kimbo deserve to not get a shot at someone else.

it should have been stopped in the first round when Kimbo just laid there and did nothing for the last 40 seconds....and when Herb stopped it in the 2nd, it seemed he was hesitant to stop it..

 

[Leppah]

That fight was over hyped. I doubt anybody could really do anything with that 264 pound lard a$$ on your face and trapping your arms. Hell, BJ couldn't do anything against Hughes and they were both the same weight.
I think a lot of people will like Kimbo after this series. He seems like a great guy. He's mellow, down to earth, and shows potential. There'll be a lot of non haters after this series.
He needs some redemption after that one though. That sucked.

I liked how Rampage shaved his head like Kimbo. That was awesome.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I liked how Rampage shaved his head like Kimbo. That was awesome.

Clearly that was the highlight of the entire hour of my wasted night. If I would have known I would have caught up on my DVR'd Hell's Kitchen or something.


This season's fighting is the suck. If it wasnt for Rampage being entertaining and the: Let's tune in to see if we are going to love or hate Kimbo I dont see any value yet.

 

[Greyhound]

You will never see a ref stand up fighters when one has the other in a crucifix position and is throwing free punches at the other guys head (regardless of how effective or ineffective the punches are). That type of position is one of the most dominant positions you can have and it is kinda a shame that Roy didn't actually do more damage the two times he got him there. It was up to Kimbo to <rampage> do something </rampage> and not just sit there. The best thing I can say about this fight is that at least both fighters didn't gas 2 minutes in.

Oh I get you.....my point was that Roy wasn't even doing much to advance his position. His big-ass belly helped him smother Kimbo....which, if that's what his intentions were, then he succeeded. But, it also prevented him from really landing anything because he couldn't get any punches underneath that beer gut. Kimbo wasn't visibly hurt from any of that.....just disgusted with being layed upon by 265lbs of bacon. Kimbo still needs a lot of work in getting out of those situations. He almost had a real good flip there when he used his legs on the cage to get leverage, but fat boy just used earth's gravitational force to smother him again.

 

[BillT]

Oh I get you.....my point was that Roy wasn't even doing much to advance his position.

You can't really advance from a crucifix...it is typically end-game if you get there as the guy at the bottom has his head exposed and the guy on top has a free hand to pound away. It was up to Kimbo to try to do something - work a trapped arm out, try to sweep, at least kick your legs or something so the ref knows you are still trying. If you would have replaced Roy with any regular UFC heavy weight and put him in that position with Kimbo, Kimbo would be looking like Frank Mir after his rematch with Lesnar.

 

[vinnycactus]

Rampage is a funny dude. Too bad he bailed on the Rashad fight.

 

[IH8Rice]

im still drawn on which fight was better.
the two out of shape fighters last week, or the two guys who pussy footed around the ring last night

 

[golgiaparatus]

That was probably the most pathetic win I have ever seen in MMA.
Kimbo lost by TMO "Technically Menstruated On".

They need to change the rule from "Unanswered Blows" the "Unanswered Damage", plain and simple.

 

[BillT]

If they hadn't stopped and let Roy to continue tapping his head, he would have lost by descision anyways.

 

[Sandwich]

eh kimbo had his chance when the ref let it go to the second round. It should never have gotten that far, but fat country couldn't end it in the first...though he should have. Kudos to dean for letting it go the full minute he was pinned down so he had another chance.

I definitely think we'll see Kimbo again, at least in the TUF competition and probably in the UFC. Seeing his fitness vs. fatchunky's was impressive. If fatcamp had similar % body fat, he'd come in at 185. Anyways, if I were one of the other guys, I'd make sure to stay injury free and out of trouble. Dana will be looking for a way to kick somebody off the show.

 

[jasride]

yeah, odd that Kimbo wasn't even moving his legs being pinned under like that twice.
He put in a couple good shots too before he was takin down for the second time but fat dude held his own i guess. I like Kimbo, but like he said it seems he was fighting with a different mind set on all those you tube street videos you see. It's like its one of those " its not the destination, its the journey" type situations. go hard during the journey but when you get there, the motivation subsides a little.

 

[IH8Rice]

there was no way roy was going to go toe to toe boxing with Kimbo. the few punches Kimbo landed shocked the hell outa him. he was smart to move it to the ground where kimbo is like a fish outa water

 

[jimmydean]

I'm sure Kimbo fights again after Mr. Sensitive faints based on the previews. I just don't think Kimbo will ever have the ground skills. The way the UFC has gone, unless you have at least SOME ground skills, you're done. Nobody will challenge Lesnar unless they can fight both standing and on the ground.

 

[IH8Rice]

I'm sure Kimbo fights again after Mr. Sensitive faints based on the previews. I just don't think Kimbo will ever have the ground skills. The way the UFC has gone, unless you have at least SOME ground skills, you're done. Nobody will challenge Lesnar unless they can fight both standing and on the ground.

agreed. this isnt boxing. you need a strong ground game as well as a boxing game too. Kimbo's opponents know that you need to get him on the ground to win. he's a slugger, plain and simple.

 

[jimmydean]

That's why as much as I would love to see Rampage knock Evans out, I think Evans would beat him because of his ground skills. People seem to forget he was teh sh!t at Michigan State because he has wicked power and crazy reach. But he's no slouch on the ground and his takedowns are wicked.

The same goes for leg kicks. People used to laugh about them, but they hurt like hell. If you take the legs out from a striker, he's done. It's funny to me to watch the old ass UFC fights compared to the level of skill guys have now. In a few more years, all the top fighters will be like GSP or they won't last.

 

[golgiaparatus]

unless you have at least SOME ground skills

Or at least quality takedown defense. Kimbo has the start of good TD defense... he just needs to learn how to get away after he stuffs the shot.

Seemed like he would stuff butternuts and then, instead of circling away quickly, he'd stay in the clinch and get pushed back into the cage. His dirty boxing could use improvement too. I think the dude is dangerous when he's in proper range... but he's wasn't threatening in close.

BTW there is too much of a difference between 230 and 265. 20lbs is the difference between middle and light heavy. These heavyweights are fighting each other with bigger deficits than that.

 

[IH8Rice]

It&#8217;s the same fighter, just better promoters.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dw-kimbo093009&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

 

[jimmydean]

BTW there is too much of a difference between 230 and 265. 20lbs is the difference between middle and light heavy. These heavyweights are fighting each other with bigger deficits than that.

And that's why Lesnar will likely be the champ for a while unless someone brings a 2x4 with a nail in it. He CUTS to 265. He walks around at like 280 or something. Frank Mir was something like 230, same as Randy when they fought.

They should do Heavyweight from 206 to 230 and have like a Super Heavy, or "Unlimited" class that is 231+.

There are a lot of 220something dudes and if they aren't cutting, they might be in better shape.

 

[sanjuro]

Oh I get you.....my point was that Roy wasn't even doing much to advance his position. His big-ass belly helped him smother Kimbo....which, if that's what his intentions were, then he succeeded. But, it also prevented him from really landing anything because he couldn't get any punches underneath that beer gut. Kimbo wasn't visibly hurt from any of that.....just disgusted with being layed upon by 265lbs of bacon. Kimbo still needs a lot of work in getting out of those situations. He almost had a real good flip there when he used his legs on the cage to get leverage, but fat boy just used earth's gravitational force to smother him again.

My complaint about Kimbo's ground game wasn't how he smothered by a fat boy, but how pathetic his skills and his effort are.

Take the first fight: I thought the wrestler was proficient in his takedowns, and it was interesting to watch.

But I don't think Roy has a very good ground game. I've never seen the crucifix before, and I think it is because it is a near impossible position to achieve between two equally skilled fighters (although a friend just pointed out that Matt Hughes put BJ Penn into a crucifix).

I thought Kimbo's sprawl was a lot better, but it is not good. Mostly, it just that he looks so bad on the ground, it is like he is not trying.

 

[IH8Rice]

I thought Kimbo's sprawl was a lot better, but it is not good. Mostly, it just that he looks so bad on the ground, it is like he is not trying.

some of his sprawls were great looking, but at times when he should have, he didnt, then just laid on the ground getting nuggied to death

 

[sanjuro]

And that's why Lesnar will likely be the champ for a while unless someone brings a 2x4 with a nail in it. He CUTS to 265. He walks around at like 280 or something. Frank Mir was something like 230, same as Randy when they fought.

They should do Heavyweight from 206 to 230 and have like a Super Heavy, or "Unlimited" class that is 231+.

There are a lot of 220something dudes and if they aren't cutting, they might be in better shape.

I still wish there was an "Unlimited" Class, so you could see Anderson Silva or Rampage fight anyone!

 

[golgiaparatus]

And that's why Lesnar will likely be the champ for a while unless someone brings a 2x4 with a nail in it. He CUTS to 265. He walks around at like 280 or something. Frank Mir was something like 230, same as Randy when they fought.

They should do Heavyweight from 206 to 230 and have like a Super Heavy, or "Unlimited" class that is 231+.

There are a lot of 220something dudes and if they aren't cutting, they might be in better shape.

Another thing they could do is push light heavyweight up to 210-220. Imagine Mir a bit thinner and in the light heavy class, he'd be a freakin force. We already know Randy is best at 205. That would also make the middleweights stay in their own weight class... Hendo, Franklin, those guys aren't light heavyweights.

 

[Greyhound]

just laid on the ground getting nuggied to death

 

[jimmydean]

I wouldn't want to fight Silva at 185, either. Franklin was crushing fools in that class until that jackass came to the UFC (and by jackass I mean the best pound for pound fighter). I think there are more powerful dudes at 205 that Silva would have a tougher time with than at 185. I will likely be proven wrong on this considering what he has done at 205 thus far.

While Randy is still one of the best of all time, I don't think he's the best at 205 anymore. Interesting point about bumping 205 up, but I think it's a good weight class overall as is.

While Big Country has skills based on what I saw him do in IFL, he is not the ideal poster boy for the UFC.

 

[Sandwich]

Why do people have such a man-crush on Anderson Silva over GSP? Because GSP lost? Silva's a phenomenal striker, but most of his fights don't go much past standup, whereas we've seen GSP take it to the ground in every fight. I'm just wondering, because I don't get the man-love.

 

[jimmydean]

Why do people have such a man-crush on Anderson Silva over GSP? Because GSP lost? Silva's a phenomenal striker, but most of his fights don't go much past standup, whereas we've seen GSP take it to the ground in every fight. I'm just wondering, because I don't get the man-love.

Do you forget the triangle he put on Travis Lutter?

http://video.tiscali.it/canali/truveo/869008063.html

It doesn't go past striking because he hasn't needed to. He's a black belt with serious choke skills.

<edit> GSP lacks the KO power of Silva. After seeing Silva destroy Griffin, that was enough for me. Rampage couldn't KO Griffin in 5 rounds, Silva did it in seconds.

 

[sanjuro]

Do you forget the triangle he put on Travis Lutter?

http://video.tiscali.it/canali/truveo/869008063.html

It doesn't go past striking because he hasn't needed to. He's a black belt with serious choke skills.

<edit> GSP lacks the KO power of Silva. After seeing Silva destroy Griffin, that was enough for me. Rampage couldn't KO Griffin in 5 rounds, Silva did it in seconds.

It's like saying the Iceman has no ground skills. The guy was a college wrassler. Just his Superman punch is even more devastating than a choke-out.