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JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,740
784
Front Range, dude...
jmvar, you are a rebel...good jumpin!

And if he has outlawed RM, can a peoples revoloution be far behind? Rise up! You have nothing to lose but your chains! And hopefully its not on a downhill section...
 
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rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,659
0
Filastin
Yes there are interwebz in Venezuela. However, Chavez has pretty much outlawed Ridemonkey and has forced Venezuelan mountain bikers to exclusively use Pinkbike. The reason for this is so that drops in Venezula can me measured in Pinkbike feet as opposed to the more realistic Ridemonkey feet.

Going a step further, Chavez has formed a private committee that censors the word "feet", the symbol " ' " (that signifies feet), "ft", and "ft." automatically changing it to meters further inflating the egos of Venezuelan riders who love to defy gravity.

In the US the biggest drop I have done is probably the deck drop at Diablo which measure 4-5 Ridemonkey feet. When I got to Venezuela I can use the standard Pinkbike equation PB Drop ft. = (actual feet) x 1.5 + (rear travel)*.5 and then turn that into meters....netting 11 meters for me from this drop (not me in pic, I choose to drop towards earth with wheels perfectly straight and no style while praying I make it out alive).

He also changed your time zone, you're now inbetween two standard zones! By your experiance, can you tell us how this has affected downhillers in Venezuela?
 

JohnE

filthy rascist
May 13, 2005
12,740
784
Front Range, dude...
For forcing PinkBike on the MTB-ing masses, Chavez should be tried for high crimes against humanity, and sentenced to life in prison with BikerFox...
 

jmvar

Monkey
Aug 16, 2002
414
0
"It was a funny angle!"
In all seriousness, yes there is interwebz in VE, and it is actually more free in VE than in the US because the FBI are equivalent agency will not come knocking on your door if you are looking for bestiality or child prohn.

RW I think we agree on a couple of point however we don't see i2i on a couple which are the most important for me.

The elections have been overseen and deemed democratic by external objective institutions, however Chavez created a tense atmosphere where dissension from government policies and the Bolivarian Revolution are met with fear, intimidation, and harassment. Yes the opposition has to take responsibility for some of the violence that has erupted in VE, however, Chavez has tried to politicize and militarize a lot of public institutions that should remain neutral.

Why should my aunt who worked for the state hospital for decades be fired because she wanted to show her disagreement with policies Chavez was trying to push through? She was made an example of and I view that as an abuse of power and intimidation.

Chavez has tried to install his military yes men in public universities where the student body and board should be voting in the dean (Universidad Simon Bolivar is one example).

Did I mention his cabinet of Ministers? The the minister of interior is such a dumbass that he goes on a rant about the cannibalism of capitalism....and when the reporter asks him isn't it contradictory to be speaking about capitalism while wearing Louis Voitton and Gucci...he falls on his face saying he wishes Venezuela would produce those products.


He is making a huge power grab and the Venezuelan citizens are recognizing it. He has tried to veil his attempts with enticing reforms such as the 6 hour workday. I would love a 6 hour workday, I am no economist and don't know the ramification a 6 hour workday would have on the economy but in a city like Caracas where you spend 2-3 hrs. a day commuting due to traffic I can see where that would help the family structure....however what does that have to do with Chavez wanting an unlimited number of runs at the Presidency? Why are those 2 issues tied together? I view it as deceptive and so does the average Venezuelan. His last referendum was his first loss, it would have given him unlimited runs at presidency. His latest attempt to have citizens watch over each other and create an intimidating police state has been met with huge opposition even from members of his own party.

I am not saying Chavez is running out of social programs, what I am saying is that he doesn't have the political savvy to successfully implement them because he is excluding a complete sector of the Venezuelan population. Venezuela is one of the few countries in Latin America that actually had a middle class. The middle class, especially the young professionals coming out of college see no hope for themselves and don't see the Revolution including them. How will you break the curse of crude if you don't grow your young professionals into the scientists, educators, engineers, economists that will pull the country out of its dependence on oil revenue? They see Chavez too busy making up meaningless attempts to piss off the rich, and giving away oil to other countries while they rot in a city (Caracas) plagued by crime and failing infrastructure. If Chavez where to find a balance he would be a lot more successful and would be able to help VE a whole hell of a lot more than what he is doing now.

That is not his greatest threat though. The writing is on the wall and Chavez knows it. Colombia has been militarized by the US and is the Israel of the western hemisphere and the excuse is the "war on drugs".

The coup in April 2002 was initiated by outside powers working within Venezuela. There are videos of unidentified snipers and gunmen that couldn't be placed with either the Chavistas or the opposition. There is a famous video of a Chavista supposedly firing into a crowd of the opposition that was later found to be false. The establishment is not happy with Chavez and there are signs that they are doing something about it.

Chavez is not in it for the dough, if he was it would be a lot easier and safer for him to cut deals with foreign corporations, milk that cow while pretending to care about the poor. His problem is power and the yes men he has surrounded himself with. He does really see himself as a man of the people. I know I have said that he has done all he can do, and I really believe that. However, I don't see a viable candidate that I would replace him with. The alternative are a bunch of thieving bastards waiting to pillage the country and its resources just like the old days.

It is great to see Latin America form alliances that are inclusive of the regional economies in each country as opposed to "free" market abusers who want nothing but a one sided agreement that was the norm of the past. Hopefully these alliances can take and hold to reduce Latin America's dependence on the North.

Looking at videos of Venezuela and visiting really can really be frustrating. It is a country with so much potential with its oil revenue, natural resources, and a huge possibility for tourism. Only crazy Euros like RW are brave enough to go...I don't blame people that stay away. It is a dangerous place unfortunately.

Let's look at more pictures.





This is the ridgeline of the mountain you see in the pic below.









 

jmvar

Monkey
Aug 16, 2002
414
0
"It was a funny angle!"
jmvar, you are a rebel...good jumpin!

And if he has outlawed RM, can a peoples revoloution be far behind? Rise up! You have nothing to lose but your chains! And hopefully its not on a downhill section...
LOL, just to make sure you all understand, I don't live in Venezuela, I visit every year during Christmas....

and that is not me in the pic of the drop. I look a lot more tense going off that drop, usually my shorts are bunched up in my arsehole and I am holding on for dear life.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,408
456
chez moi
Jmvar, you simply can't be right. Rockwool has teh internetz to prove you wrong!! There simply must be a politico-economic paradise on earth where everything is full of the meaning that only the noble poor can have, overseen by a benevolent demagouge who dispenses the totality of existence in his blessed hands, as his very presence on the earth works to tear away the evil blight that is the US from the face of this earth. And it's Venezuela. He's read all about it!!

(Speaking of paradise, nice pics! I'd be there in a second if I wasn't already on my way to Africa...to a country ten times more ****ed-up than Venezuela could aspire to be...)
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
In all seriousness, yes there is interwebz in VE, and it is actually more free in VE than in the US because the FBI are equivalent agency will not come knocking on your door if you are looking for bestiality or child prohn.
Wait.... that's illegal here?
Oh sh*t!
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,408
456
chez moi
FBI's got no jurisdiction on bestiality porn, as far as I know...child porn with an interstate/cross-border nexus (including use of the Internet or even a phone call routed across state lines) is another story.
 

Stray_cat

Monkey
Nov 13, 2007
460
0
Providence
Sorry, Im a Spanish beginner, but:

The Corn Is Not Combustible.

Against the harvest of death.

We're free. We're the Corn.


?

WTF is that?
Your Spanish is better than mine, but I'm pretty sure that's in reference to the USs' mass subsidizing of corn to bolster itself as the number one ethanol producer. Presently South America is the largest producer of ethanol. It was shady move by the states.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
Your Spanish is better than mine, but I'm pretty sure that's in reference to the USs' mass subsidizing of corn to bolster itself as the number one ethanol producer. Presently South America is the largest producer of ethanol. It was shady move by the states.
It's "shady" for a country to bolster its own industries?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
It's "shady" for a country to bolster its own industries?
To give taxpayer money to the corn industry to artificially lower corn prices so that they can be the cheapest source of corn in the global market?

As a country we are losing money on every kernel of corn that is exported. Given that, are you still excited to be the worlds #1 corn exporter?
 
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kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
25,611
3,997
In my pants
To give taxpayer money to the corn industry to artificially lower corn prices so that they can be to cheapest source of corn on the global market.

As a country we are losing money on every kernel of corn that is exported. Given that, are you still excited to be the worlds #1 corn exporter?
So you say we're digging ourselves into a cornhole?


That stinks.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
To give taxpayer money to the corn industry to artificially lower corn prices so that they can be to cheapest source of corn on the global market.

As a country we are losing money on every kernel of corn that is exported. Given that, are you still excited to be the worlds #1 corn exporter?
That it's losing money doesn't sound good, but if corn were to become very high in demand as oil dwindles and we've invested in the infrastructure and kept the farmers afloat to the point that it's profitable.... maybe.

Im not real high on the whole Corn-ahol idea as it is anyway, but people going on about subsidizing farmers as some true misuse of funds seems a little shortsighted. There may indeed be a day that keeping these farms/farmers going keeps us alive.
 

Stray_cat

Monkey
Nov 13, 2007
460
0
Providence
That it's losing money doesn't sound good, but if corn were to become very high in demand as oil dwindles and we've invested in the infrastructure and kept the farmers afloat to the point that it's profitable.... maybe.

Im not real high on the whole Corn-ahol idea as it is anyway, but people going on about subsidizing farmers as some true misuse of funds seems a little shortsighted. There may indeed be a day that keeping these farms/farmers going keeps us alive.
I think subsidizing farms is really important. But to subsidize corn so we can inefficiently make ethanol makes me not very excited about paying taxes. Farmers have chosen to plant corn instead of wheat due to the large payouts from the gov. While we're not the biggest wheat producing nation in the world, we are a major player. With food prices and wheat reserves in bad states, wheat would be a far more useful thing to grow. Let sugar producing nations produce ethanol, they do it better anyways.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
That it's losing money doesn't sound good, but if corn were to become very high in demand as oil dwindles and we've invested in the infrastructure and kept the farmers afloat to the point that it's profitable.... maybe.
If those subsidies were going into R&D, that would be great. However, in this case the subsidies are doing the exact opposite: allowing the US corn industry to compete in the ethanol market using existing technology in a market that should be driving them to innovate. Without subsidies they would have to find cheaper or more efficient ways to produce fuel, from corn or other. The only "infrastructure" investment we are doing is devoting more and more arable land to corn, but that can basically be flipped on an annual basis.

If we were smart, we would be investing in alternative non-food sources (switchgrass, etc.), or more efficient food-based sources (sugar cane, beet), so that when the oil-pocalypse comes we don't have to make decisions about whether to feed ourselves or power ourselves.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
If those subsidies were going into R&D, that would be great. However, in this case the subsidies are doing the exact opposite: allowing the US corn industry to compete in the ethanol market using existing technology in a market that should be driving them to innovate. Without subsidies they would have to find cheaper or more efficient ways to produce fuel, from corn or other. The only "infrastructure" investment we are doing is devoting more and more arable land to corn, but that can basically be flipped on an annual basis.

If we were smart, we would be investing in alternative non-food sources (switchgrass, etc.), or more efficient food-based sources (sugar cane, beet), so that when the oil-pocalypse comes we don't have to make decisions about whether to feed ourselves or power ourselves.
Just to play devils advocate, because Im certainly no expert on Ag/economics, couldn't you imagine a scenario in which corn would be the optimal crop given that it can be used for both fuel and food... depending on our needs at the time?
Surely there must be some infrastructure growth if the corn-fuel industry is growing, even if because farmers are chasing subsidies. Surely there must be growth in the processing abilities as well.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
I think subsidizing farms is really important.
Why? Please god tell me it's not to maintain strong cultural farming traditions.

I think helping farms manage market/harvest volatility is important, but that should be
1) helping them use peaks to fill troughs, NOT filling their troughs for them and then pour gravy onto the peaks.
2) encouraging them to diversify their crops to help hedge good/bad years and smooth the volatility
3) invest or encourage investment in agricultural technology that reduces volatility and increases yields
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Just to play devils advocate, because Im certainly no expert on Ag/economics, couldn't you imagine a scenario in which corn would be the optimal crop given that it can be used for both fuel and food... depending on our needs at the time?
I suspect DRB is going to hand me my ass on this one but I'll give it a shot...
I see what you're getting at - grow as much corn as you can and then use it for either fuel or food depending on the need that year. However, lots of sources of ethanol can be grown on non-arable land. Mesquite and switchgrass grow where you would never be growing a food source. Waste biomass like soy-stalks comes after you've used the land for food. With subsidies, pursuing these sources is a waste as they could never compete with the yield from subsidized corn.

Surely there must be some infrastructure growth if the corn-fuel industry is growing, even if because farmers are chasing subsidies. Surely there must be growth in the processing abilities as well.
I don't know enough about the refining process to be sure, but I don't think it's currently much different from source to source. You just get more out of corn. Building an ethanol infrastructure may not be a bad thing, but doing it by subsidizing corn is idiotic.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
I suspect DRB is going to hand me my ass on this one but I'll give it a shot...
I see what you're getting at - grow as much corn as you can and then use it for either fuel or food depending on the need that year. However, lots of sources of ethanol can be grown on non-arable land. Mesquite and switchgrass grow where you would never be growing a food source. Waste biomass like soy-stalks comes after you've used the land for food. With subsidies, pursuing these sources is a waste as they could never compete with the yield from subsidized corn.
Well see we can't sit here and bitch at N_8 about wanting to drill ANWR, and then come back and whine about how "non-arable land" isn't being used to the fullest extent. Somehow the idea of non-native switchgrass prairies taking the place of real ones just doesn't sit right.



I don't know enough about the refining process to be sure, but I don't think it's currently much different from source to source. You just get more out of corn. Building an ethanol infrastructure may not be a bad thing, but doing it by subsidizing corn is idiotic.
I remain unconvinced at this point, but I'll assume like most things, the US isn't doing it nearly as efficiently as it could be. Id like to learn a bit more.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
If those subsidies were going into R&D, that would be great. However, in this case the subsidies are doing the exact opposite: allowing the US corn industry to compete in the ethanol market using existing technology in a market that should be driving them to innovate. Without subsidies they would have to find cheaper or more efficient ways to produce fuel, from corn or other. The only "infrastructure" investment we are doing is devoting more and more arable land to corn, but that can basically be flipped on an annual basis.

If we were smart, we would be investing in alternative non-food sources (switchgrass, etc.), or more efficient food-based sources (sugar cane, beet), so that when the oil-pocalypse comes we don't have to make decisions about whether to feed ourselves or power ourselves.
Since they are a business, they are always looking to drive down costs, and therefore increase profits. I have never heard of a business that was happy with the profit margin they have now.

Sugar cane doesn't grow very well in Iowa, corn does.

South America can do soy much cheaper than we can, and they are devoting considerable amounts of land to soy for ethanol.
 
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ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Since they are a business, they are always looking to drive down costs, and therefore increase profits. I have never heard of a business that was happy with the profit margin they have now.
I've worked with companies both big and small, on both cost-cutting and innovation. There is a big difference between wanting to drive down costs and needing to. Lack of competition removes urgency which stifles innovation. This is fact.

edit: To be more explicit, you will never see step-change under the current conditions. You will see incremental improvements that can be measured in fractions of a percent. In addition, we are making investment in alternatives to corn much less attractive than they should be at current oil prices.

If our goal is to drive innovation and make ethanol a sustainable scalable alternative, any government money should go into early stage R&D that is agnostic to a specific crop or even specific fuel for that matter.
 
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Stray_cat

Monkey
Nov 13, 2007
460
0
Providence
Why? Please god tell me it's not to maintain strong cultural farming traditions.

I think helping farms manage market/harvest volatility is important, but that should be
1) helping them use peaks to fill troughs, NOT filling their troughs for them and then pour gravy onto the peaks.
2) encouraging them to diversify their crops to help hedge good/bad years and smooth the volatility
3) invest or encourage investment in agricultural technology that reduces volatility and increases yields
I'm in 100% agreeance with your three points. Subsidies should only go as far as making a sustainable bussiness. I think it was in the 90s dairy farms were encouraged to produce milk, and given money to invest in production. The farms produced so much that the price of milk fell to record lows and farms couldn't make money off their product. The gov. had to step in again a subsidize the milk itself this time.
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,659
0
Filastin
The elections have been overseen and deemed democratic by external objective institutions, however Chavez created a tense atmosphere where dissension from government policies and the Bolivarian Revolution are met with fear, intimidation, and harassment. Yes the opposition has to take responsibility for some of the violence that has erupted in VE, however, Chavez has tried to politicize and militarize a lot of public institutions that should remain neutral.
Wait a minute, you blame the tence atmosphere on the Bolivarians and not the opposition who has been violently opposed to them, both verbaly through 90% of the media, aswell as through subversions, from February 1999 to this day? They have in no way acted within the rules of a democratic system, and you expect those daily subversions to not cause REactions? If the Rodney King riots had lasted for 10yrs they would have been nothing compared to what Venezuelans have had to endure because of the subverting actions of the opposition.

Have you even seen the whole documentary (it's not a film as you've claimed) that you linked the intro to, to even know how of how the "goodness" of the opposition is? IF you have seen it, you're welcome to a reminder on post #79. Talk about a rape on public institutions...

Why should my aunt who worked for the state hospital for decades be fired because she wanted to show her disagreement with policies Chavez was trying to push through? She was made an example of and I view that as an abuse of power and intimidation.
I asked for proof of those Black Lists. Reason is:

1. A shipload of claims by the opposition have proven them selves most of the time to be pure lies.
2. I stumbled upon that black list article a few posts back.
3. If one looks at Chaves' actions, he's all for integration, nationally and internationally.
4. He's all for reconsiliation. Most recently with Uribe, a guy that probably is his greatest threat (except for the worlds greatest democracy). Unity is a core thing to him.
5. For the part of the coup that private media actively played, he has let them be. WTF?!!
6. Non of the heads of the coup leaders were even tried, and you expect him to go after your auntie?

Reasoning by logic and proof of actual actions, your claims have no substance.

You're aunti was probably cought with her hand in the pharmacephtical cookie jar, and is ashamed of her self. That's alright though, I would have done the same thing. :thumb:

Chavez has tried to install his military yes men in public universities where the student body and board should be voting in the dean (Universidad Simon Bolivar is one example).
Ohh really, good you mentioned, I will post a recent article on that very subject! Wait for my next post.

Don't forget to mention the good things too. While we're talking about universities, the Bolivarians are opening up alot of them. ALOT! You want proof?

Did I mention his cabinet of Ministers? The the minister of interior is such a dumbass that he goes on a rant about the cannibalism of capitalism....and when the reporter asks him isn't it contradictory to be speaking about capitalism while wearing Louis Voitton and Gucci...he falls on his face saying he wishes Venezuela would produce those products.

Thank good for the great analytical mind of that reporter and the private media! What would the world be without you? Are you concuring with her that capitalism equals a cloth fashion? :bonk:

He is making a huge power grab and the Venezuelan citizens are recognizing it. He has tried to veil his attempts with enticing reforms such as the 6 hour workday. I would love a 6 hour workday, I am no economist and don't know the ramification a 6 hour workday would have on the economy but in a city like Caracas where you spend 2-3 hrs. a day commuting due to traffic I can see where that would help the family structure....however what does that have to do with Chavez wanting an unlimited number of runs at the Presidency? Why are those 2 issues tied together? I view it as deceptive and so does the average Venezuelan. His last referendum was his first loss, it would have given him unlimited runs at presidency. His latest attempt to have citizens watch over each other and create an intimidating police state has been met with huge opposition even from members of his own party.
You mean a huge power grab like a coup, or bigger?

Why do you see it as he was veiling that? They could probably pass that through the NA any day.. Good for your relatives, I'm happy for them!

Why is unlimited rens at the precidency a problem? We alow it in Sweden, the Finns alow it, many since long established democracies do. Heck, Kekkonen of Finland sat for the duration of the cold war! If the people recognize a great leader, then good for them! Who would you rather lead you into battle, a great officer that has distinguished him self, or a fresh one whos only proven quality is his "freshness"?

And when hearing that opposition to his proposed ****ed up law, he did what a great person does and admits his mistake and withdrew it! Just the same way GWB has acted about the Patriot Act and the non declared wars on Afghanistan and Iraq etc, right? Check your fire.

I am not saying Chavez is running out of social programs, what I am saying is that he doesn't have the political savvy to successfully implement them because he is excluding a complete sector of the Venezuelan population. Venezuela is one of the few countries in Latin America that actually had a middle class. The middle class, especially the young professionals coming out of college see no hope for themselves and don't see the Revolution including them. How will you break the curse of crude if you don't grow your young professionals into the scientists, educators, engineers, economists that will pull the country out of its dependence on oil revenue? They see Chavez too busy making up meaningless attempts to piss off the rich, and giving away oil to other countries while they rot in a city (Caracas) plagued by crime and failing infrastructure. If Chavez where to find a balance he would be a lot more successful and would be able to help VE a whole hell of a lot more than what he is doing now.
On the contrary, he is showing more savvy than few other leaders today. Look how S.A. has begun to integrate, freeing them selves from the 200years of stifling irons of the US. Look how he does the same with the rest of the poor world. HE is the one doing this!

Again, looking at his politics and general actions, exclussion is far what he has on his mind. It's contra productive to exclude the middle class, specially when you've prooven your self to have development, and getting away from oil as sole revenue, on your mind (as you haven't already, please read previous articles in this thread for examples).

You didn't answer me before so I'll ask again. What were the previous to parties in power doing for all those "scientists, educators, engineers, economists", that the Bolivarians aren't doing today?

He's NOT giving away oil, and here's the best example of where you are buying the subversionaries propaganda without questioning! His renationalization of PDVSA is the sole reason to why those, by you recognized, 15 missions (so far) have been possible to acieve. Money that would otherwise have been in the pockets of the wealthy and the middle class, and that is why they are complainging..

EXAMPLE: Evo Morales gave this example to the Daily Show (saw it on Youtube) when he visited and was asked why he's so popular, and how he has achieved so many great things in just 6 months, he answered:

Before I renationalized our natural recources Bolivia was earning $200million/year in revenues. After nationalizations we're earning $2billion.
No doubt, similar percentage in money lost to a few share holders must have aplied in VE. Can you now see where all the hate is coming from? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

No oil is given away. He's doing the humanitarian thing, being a good socialist that he is, and don't demand third world countries to pay emediately for the full $145 a barrel, for something that 5 years ago used to cost about a fifth! What he's done is give them credit for a part of that price. Check the facts damn it. :rant:

Please, the crime and poor infrastructure of a third world nation can't possibly be solved in mearly 10years.. But now, at least VE has ensured future funds to do it.
 
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rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,659
0
Filastin
That is not his greatest threat though. The writing is on the wall and Chavez knows it. Colombia has been militarized by the US and is the Israel of the western hemisphere and the excuse is the "war on drugs".
gDaumn we agree on that one! The Equadorian gvmnt of Correa is not going extend the lease on the US airbase they have there after the end of 2009. Part of that has to do with the Colombian bombing of Equadorian soil in the begining of March (when they claim they recovered the laptops).

Evidently, they types of bombs that were used couldn't have been fired from Colombian aircraft. When Correa looked in to their recorded radar information he was informed that that particular radar station had been down for maintenence for some weeks. He then fired his highest ranking officer/s on the claims of being CIA operatives (or similar, can't remember exactly).

So, the US is now thinking to move that base to Colombia! Apparantly, the eastern border region next to oil rich Zulia province (who's governor BTW wants some sort of autonomy from the rest of VE)... And if that wasn't enough, there was a PFP excercise, a year or so ago, in the Atlantic/Portugal that have been found to resemble a rehersal of the Zulia assault! Of course, we shouldn't forget the reestablishment of the Fith Fleet (that's been nonexcistant since soon after WWII) two weeks ago, that has the function "to send the right message out to the region", and of course, "the war on drugs".

The coup in April 2002 was initiated by outside powers working within Venezuela. There are videos of unidentified snipers and gunmen that couldn't be placed with either the Chavistas or the opposition. There is a famous video of a Chavista supposedly firing into a crowd of the opposition that was later found to be false. The establishment is not happy with Chavez and there are signs that they are doing something about it.
Damn it Jmvar, you haven't seen the whole documentary of which you posted the intro to? Seriously, that's eFd up! Hurry up, you're gonna find private media repulsive once you've seen it...

Chavez is not in it for the dough, if he was it would be a lot easier and safer for him to cut deals with foreign corporations, milk that cow while pretending to care about the poor. His problem is power and the yes men he has surrounded himself with. He does really see himself as a man of the people. I know I have said that he has done all he can do, and I really believe that. However, I don't see a viable candidate that I would replace him with. The alternative are a bunch of thieving bastards waiting to pillage the country and its resources just like the old days.
Me, I belive that "his problem with power" is an other of those over exagerations and opposition lies that should be taken lightly. That said, as power is corruptive by nature, it won't leave him unafected, no matter how good hearted he is. I hope he's got somebody to give him a slap every now and then, just to keep him consious about that.

So, what you're saying is that he isn't perfect (unlike us :brow: ) and as long as there isn't someone better to replace him, he's the best man for the job?

He grew up in a mud and tin hut, was elected by a vast majority of the people, and has been truly serving the people for quite many years now. maybe he is a man of the people?

It is great to see Latin America form alliances that are inclusive of the regional economies in each country as opposed to "free" market abusers who want nothing but a one sided agreement that was the norm of the past. Hopefully these alliances can take and hold to reduce Latin America's dependence on the North.

Looking at videos of Venezuela and visiting really can really be frustrating. It is a country with so much potential with its oil revenue, natural resources, and a huge possibility for tourism. Only crazy Euros like RW are brave enough to go...I don't blame people that stay away. It is a dangerous place unfortunately.

Let's look at more pictures.
Have faith, L.A. is the beacon of the world, nowhere are the winds of progression and unity blowing nearly as fresh. Hardly any country has signed the NAFTA equivalent of the south. Actually, the old proposal had to be torn, and a new, individual with every country, was signed. Colombia, Guatemala, probably Panama, dunno any else.

Finally, the realization of the chant "el pueblo unido, la mas serra vincido" has become graspable for the poor masses, as they've seen it bare fruit. Cuba, Venezuela, Argentina, Bolivia, Nicaragua, Equador, Dominica, with Brazil and Chile leaning towards taht direction, and many more to follow. The elections in Mexico, Peru, and probably alot other nations, the next 5 years are surely going to swing to the left!

By looking at the pictures, I could definately live there!
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,659
0
Filastin
I do have to comment a bit about the corn/ethanol discussion, though.

1. Those of you who consider your selves to be capitalists, liberal or conservative, how do you find subsidizing to be in accordance with a market free from gvmnt involvement? As the US, but also the EU, is on this point ruling over the rest of the (poor) world, through the IMF and the Worldbank, porhibiting third world nations to subsidize their farmers (as well as porhibiting them from owning companies), while them selves are subsidizing the farmers, don't you feel this is unfair and a wrong thing to do?

2. Ethanol production is using up arable land taht would otherwise be used to feed humans. That's why some southern countries are fighting E85, they're fakin starvin.

3. I've said it before, there's an oil baring plant that is superior to all others. It can grown further to the north, needs no pesticides, yealds more per acre, can be reused for paper (etc) after it's been pressed for oil, it can grow on non arable land, gives good head, and Indians make peace with it. Go spread the word!

4. Biodiesel is around 80% more fuel efficient than Ethanol. Hurray say the starving people of the world!

5. Just a fwe weeks ago I found out about that ANY car could be a hydrogen hybrid for less that $100!!! Search for "hydrogen" on youtube.
 
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Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0

Glenn beck is a fvcking tool, he had an interview with a Muslim Congressman:

"I have been nervous about this interview with you, because what I feel like saying is, 'Sir, prove to me that you are not working with our enemies.' " Beck added: "I'm not accusing you of being an enemy, but that's the way I feel, and I think a lot of Americans will feel that way."

I consider myself a far-left capitalist, in the sense that it should be highly regulated.

1. Horribly wrong, subsidization of fertilizer should be encouraged.

2. I don't think anyone is going to disagree that ethanol has had some really huge ramifications, and should be relooked.

5. A lot of conspiracy videos are on youtube, I had a friend tell me about how he refuses to go near cell phones because he saw a couple videos with cell phones popping popcorn, and it is a viral ad for a cell phone.
 
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ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
5. Just a fwe weeks ago I found out about that ANY car could be a hydrogen hybrid for less that $100!!! Search for "hydrogen" on youtube.
You, sir, are officially crowned king of wishful thinkers.

Reread what you just wrote. Think about it. I'm serial.
 

Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/bolivia-a-bitter-leaf.html

There hasn't yet been a tin or copper war, but there once was a nitrate war, and in the past decade Bolivia has seen both a water war and a gas war—the latest struggles over the nation's only real riches, the lucrative resources granted by God and geology. In this country nearly twice the size of France, where Amazonian jungles butt against 12,000-foot plateaus, the winners have always come from elsewhere. The Inca royalty of Cuzco (in modern-day Peru) took power from the local Aymara; the Spanish took gold and silver; the British took tin; recently, multinationals Bechtel and Suez tried to privatize the water supplies of Cochabamba and El Alto, while other foreign companies fought for control of Bolivia's prodigious supply of natural gas; cartels continue to take the coca and its profits. Bolivia's losers have always been the same: the disenfranchised indigenous. With an annual income of just $1,150 per capita, Bolivia is the poorest country in South America. But it is a deeply organized, socially coherent poverty, rooted in centuries of survival through communal politics and labor cooperation. Even today, long columns of Aymara men can be seen stepping backward through the fields with foot plows, opening the ground as chanting women follow, seeding potatoes. And for the first time in history, the piratical outsiders have been stymied by a homegrown revolution and its thin but consoling power.

In Bolivia's mines, men and as many as 8,000 young children endure horrific conditions to feed the world metal market; chewing on coca leaves offers the miners a traditional analgesic and appetite suppressant.

It was the gas war of 2003 as well as dissatisfaction with the American-led war on drugs that led the brown masses to march on La Paz and usher out the last of Bolivia's white-led, semi-colonial governments. Real, broad elections summoned for the first time an indigenous leader, Evo Morales, to the Palacio Quemado, or "burned palace," so named for being repeatedly torched during the more than 150 ruling-class coup d'etats that have marked Bolivian history. With its mixture of idealism and limited but sharp violence, this latest uprising was more like the Ukranian Orange Revolution than the Castro-style putsch feared by K and Wall streets. The alpaca-sweater-wearing Evo celebrated his inauguration at the ancient city of Tiahuanaco, at the ruins of a pre-Columbian site of sun worship. In accordance with mass demands for democracy and transparency, his administration struck a populist tone, signing trade deals with Venezuela's Hugo Chávez, nationalizing foreign-controlled oil and gas industries, paying students to attend school, and updating the face of nationalism, evidenced by the endless television programs in which indigenous people present their grievances and are, for the first time in Bolivian history, actually heard. The revolution is by no means perfect. Corruption persists, and Evo has not hesitated to toss the race card back in the face of the white elite who exploited it during the last century. Still, there is no turning back the clock on the rise of a new majority.

But having asserted their power, Bolivia's indigenous people—a clear majority in a nation of just 9 million, but divided into many language groups—face the challenge of forging a movement larger than identity politics. Increasingly the Aymara are fleeing altiplano poverty for the tropical promise of the lowland coca business, uprooting their ancient way of life for a risky, marginally profitable role as peons in the international drug trade. Urbanized "Indians" are in reality sharply divided between established cholos, a bowler-hatted business class with longtime roots in La Paz and other cities, and the ever-swelling ranks of newcomer refugees who crowd into El Alto and other chaotic, emerging neighborhoods, scratching out a living as porters, gardeners, and ditchdiggers. Regionalism is spinning the country apart, pitting the national government high in La Paz against the economic powerhouse of lowland Santa Cruz. Fresh, angry slogans in La Paz cry out eliminate private property, less a practical demand than a warning of the impossible expectations that await reformers.

Many who remain in the mountains resort to the pittance earned by mining for gold, silver, and tin. Under Spanish rule, these same mines cost the lives of millions of indigenous and African laborers. Thanks to the global boom in metal prices, mines previously considered exhausted tempt a new generation of boys who descend into impossibly dark, narrow, unventilated veins of the Andes, chewing coca to suppress their appetite, fatigue, and fear.

Coca has always been a palliative for Bolivia's poor, but only recently has the country become central to the global cocaine market. As Washington squeezed the coca balloon in Colombia, it has bulged out in southern Bolivia, where production has increased, even as the United States now pours $66 million a year into interdiction, military and police training, and dare anti-drug classes for 28,000 Bolivian students. America has focused on crop eradication, and efforts to help Bolivians cultivate replacement crops have mostly failed.

A former coca farmer and coca-union leader who railed against American-led programs, Evo Morales ran on a Coca Sí! Cocaína No! platform. He keeps a portrait of Che Guevara made entirely from coca leaves on his office wall and never misses a chance to serve coca tea to visiting politicians. But the leaf traditionally grown at high altitude and chewed by indigenous Bolivians has become a Trojan horse for the broader cultivation of a more bitter, unchewable, low-growing leaf useful only to narcotraffickers. Washington tabulates successes like body counts, claiming that in 2007, precisely 3,093 labs and maceration pits (often little more than plastic-lined ruts where cocaine paste is mixed) were destroyed, 13.8 metric tons of cocaine base were seized, and Bolivia's anti-narcotics police carried out 8,269 operations. The real gains are ephemeral. Armed and trained by the United States, Bolivian commandos chase low-level producers through Evo's Chapare region; meanwhile major traffickers sometimes walk out of jail, as pure and cheap cocaine floods onto world markets. On a fundamental level, the war on drugs is like all the other commodities wars Bolivia has endured: Rural peasants take all the risk—going so far as transporting coca by strapping it to the bodies of their young children—while outside traffickers take most of the profits.
tl;dr Bolivia is very poor and they are having a lot of cocaine issues. A lot of the problems originate from cultural issues.

If you want more info, watch this short documentary

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2008/07/coca-stompers-of-bolivia.html
 
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