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The way forward....

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
ANyone notice Bush and almost every associated with him uses "the way forward" in almost sentence? It seems to have replaced "stay the course"

On NPR yesterday Tony " The job" Snow, admitted conditions in Iraq were dire, and desperate.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Just out of curiosity, and Im not disagreeing here with you guys, but why are you all, and the democrats in general, so adamant about the absolute meanings of command messages like "Stay the course" or "mission accomplished" when they're clearly less literal than you want them to be? It just seems juvenile. We can haggle over meanings all day long, but why is trying to trip someone up in a war of words the main goal all the time? Clearly the admin sees its mistakes and is being forced to change tactics, that is a victory for everyone. I guess I just dont see the point in trying to overanalyze everything for the sake of calling them liars when its clear to me the statements they made were plenty ambiguous.
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Just out of curiosity, and Im not disagreeing here with you guys, but why are you all, and the democrats in general, so adamant about the absolute meanings of command messages like "Stay the course" or "mission accomplished" when they're clearly less literal than you want them to be? It just seems juvenile. We can haggle over meanings all day long, but why is trying to trip someone up in a war of words the main goal all the time? Clearly the admin sees its mistakes and is being forced to change tactics, that is a victory for everyone. I guess I just dont see the point in trying to overanalyze everything for the sake of calling them liars when its clear to me the statements they made were plenty ambiguous.
That has been negatively called flip-flopping but its not always a bad thing like you mention. People on the right never hesitated to use that term in the past to their advantage, so its more of the same from the other side. Its not any worse now that the left is doing the same thing.
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
Mostly I'm observing that when Bush has a "message" it's formulaic and uniformly spread across his whole administration and cadre of allies. And he quickly acts to distance himself from whatever his previous position was, even if it's on the verge of calling honest people liars. His "messsage" is usually designed for soundbites and spin, not for substance.

Democrats were never appear so unified and organized. But then again Bush only hires people that 100% agree with him except under the most extreme circumstances. Democratic administrations usually hire for ability and have an honest dialog. Heck Clinton didn't fire the head of the FBI who investigated him, while gonzo doesn't doesn't go to the bathroom without a hall pass.

Isn't it telling congress held about 140 hours of meetings on allegations clinton misused a christmas card list, but 12 hours on Abu Gharib? Bush called people questioning his "stay the course" message unpatriotic, people questioning the wiretapping program traitors, and blackballs reporters questioning his policies.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
Just out of curiosity, and Im not disagreeing here with you guys, but why are you all, and the democrats in general, so adamant about the absolute meanings of command messages like "Stay the course" or "mission accomplished" when they're clearly less literal than you want them to be?
That would be the case if it were a random phrase dropped once or twice, or if it was actaully a simplified way to describe the strategy. In this case, it's a manipulation tool, very carefully calculated and then disseminated among the politcial ranks to achieve a specific result. We pay close attention because they do, and it's one way to disarm such a back-handed weapon.
 

dhbuilder

jingoistic xenophobe
Aug 10, 2005
3,040
0
The link I posted was simply an example of yet another lie.

How many lies does it take before someone has absolutely no credibility?
you need look no farther than the list of liars who've hijacked the democratic party.

ted kennedy.
nancy pelosi.
howard dean.
harry reid.
harold ford jr.
john edwards.
big al gore.
jimmy frikkin carter.
john (i now have an iraq plan) kerry.
john murtha.
and let's not forget the clintons
hill and billarry.(they are interchangable after all.)
oh.
and i almost forgot.
barrack obama.(the new savior of the party.)

both sides are nothing but wicked power mongers who'll say and do anything to stay one up on the other.

i'll take the ones presently in power for no other reason than,
"better the devil you know."
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
That would be the case if it were a random phrase dropped once or twice, or if it was actaully a simplified way to describe the strategy. In this case, it's a manipulation tool, very carefully calculated and then disseminated among the politcial ranks to achieve a specific result. We pay close attention because they do, and it's one way to disarm such a back-handed weapon.
All "stay the course" ever meant was "do not retreat with tail between legs" to me; Keep pushing for a victory. It never meant anything about refusal to change tactics or "keep doing exactly as we're doing even if its a complete failure" like the democrats tried to spin it. In fact, all this is, is democratic spin of a few key phrases that are fairly ambiguous. You guys lambasted the republicans for misusing a few Kerry quotes here and there, and now you want to pull the same sh!t?

Is this the big "change" we've been waiting for? Is this "working together" to achieve success?

Whatever. Same old stupid games. Nothing will change.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
i'll take the ones presently in power for no other reason than,
"better the devil you know."
By that logic, you're better off staying in a parish with a priest who molests boys, because the next priest could be worse and molest both boys and girls. This way, it's only little Timmy getting ****ed.

Of course, you're hardly an example of an intellectually impressive logician...
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
you need look no farther than the list of liars who've hijacked the democratic party.

ted kennedy.
nancy pelosi.
howard dean.
harry reid.
harold ford jr.
john edwards.
big al gore.
jimmy frikkin carter.
john (i now have an iraq plan) kerry.
john murtha.
and let's not forget the clintons
hill and billarry.(they are interchangable after all.)
oh.
and i almost forgot.
barrack obama.(the new savior of the party.)

both sides are nothing but wicked power mongers who'll say and do anything to stay one up on the other.

i'll take the ones presently in power for no other reason than,
"better the devil you know."
The people running the republican party were referred to as "kooks and nuts" by Barry Goldwater, and he would know.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Just out of curiosity, and Im not disagreeing here with you guys, but why are you all, and the democrats in general, so adamant about the absolute meanings of command messages like "Stay the course" or "mission accomplished" when they're clearly less literal than you want them to be? It just seems juvenile. We can haggle over meanings all day long, but why is trying to trip someone up in a war of words the main goal all the time? Clearly the admin sees its mistakes and is being forced to change tactics, that is a victory for everyone. I guess I just dont see the point in trying to overanalyze everything for the sake of calling them liars when its clear to me the statements they made were plenty ambiguous.
These press releases are direct communications to the American public and the world. There are well crafted and designed to communicate a specific message.

I think analyzing every word is critical.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
These press releases are direct communications to the American public and the world. There are well crafted and designed to communicate a specific message.

I think analyzing every word is critical.
Its not the analysis, its the blatant misinterpretation and misrepresentation that the media/democrats are doing right now. And you know, attacking in this way isnt going to make the white house open to "working with" anyone. The democrats now are polarizing everything even further, needlessly.
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,374
10,307
Its not the analysis, its the blatant misinterpretation and misrepresentation that the media/democrats are doing right now. And you know, attacking in this way isnt going to make the white house open to "working with" anyone. The democrats now are polarizing everything even further, needlessly.
Don't tell me you had your hopes up?
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
The democrats now are polarizing everything even further, needlessly.
I am not sure I agree with republican/democrat left/right polarization. I kinda think they are simply two different sides of the same worthless wooden nickel.

What America needs is some independent leadership, not just more of the same old carp.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,373
0
SF
Its not the analysis, its the blatant misinterpretation and misrepresentation that the media/democrats are doing right now. And you know, attacking in this way isnt going to make the white house open to "working with" anyone. The democrats now are polarizing everything even further, needlessly.
That's different than my perception: after losing the battle at home, now the Republicans are willing to change course on what was a losing strategy.

And I have not heard any Democrats criticize Bush or the panel about this (yet), just the media.

But frankly, Bush has been asking for it, from Mission Accomplished to now. I think he is a much less slick "Slick Willie", and if it comes back to haunt him, I don't have a problem with it.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,756
3,243
The bunker at parliament
you need look no farther than the list of liars who've hijacked the democratic party.

ted kennedy.
nancy pelosi.
howard dean.
harry reid.
harold ford jr.
john edwards.
big al gore.
jimmy frikkin carter.
john (i now have an iraq plan) kerry.
john murtha.
and let's not forget the clintons
hill and billarry.(they are interchangable after all.)
oh.
and i almost forgot.
barrack obama.(the new savior of the party.)

both sides are nothing but wicked power mongers who'll say and do anything to stay one up on the other.

i'll take the ones presently in power for no other reason than,
"better the devil you know."
Just for sh*ts and giggles, please explain how Al Gore hijacked the party?
 

Old Man G Funk

Choir Boy
Nov 21, 2005
2,864
0
In a handbasket
Its not the analysis, its the blatant misinterpretation and misrepresentation that the media/democrats are doing right now. And you know, attacking in this way isnt going to make the white house open to "working with" anyone. The democrats now are polarizing everything even further, needlessly.
Because the white house has been so open to working with the Democrats up until now? So, what did Bush do right after the Democrats took control on Congress? Oh yeah, he renominated 6 (I think that was the number) judges that were turned down, he nominated a guy for head of reproductive health that thinks contraception is morally wrong, and a few other things that were in the spirit of "working with" the Dems I guess?
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
Naw, This administration is more like "F-troop" than "star trek".


I just had an idea, it's probably been done but how about a "Pirates of the Arabian" poster? GW, Rummy, and Condi?
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
Replaced by the full metal alchemist. Teen Titans was canceled, even though it was amazing popular. Apparently some right wing parent groups decided that since it was only slightly less violent a Bush press conference it had to be stopped. I'll probably bring him back in a few days. It's surprising how much a persons online identity gets associated with his avatar.