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The Zerode thread

fluider

Monkey
Jun 25, 2008
440
9
Bratislava, Slovakia
Actually, I've always been surprised Metzy still can keep his small company running and living and improving, since I know that even in Taiwan the production costs are not small. But then, the geo-isolation of NZ maybe helps him to sell more frames at home if there is less mainstream brands selling down there.
I yet can't understand his complaints about the idler on high-pivot. As far as I know, Lahar frame which Zerode G1/G2 is based on, doesn't use any idler and I can't remember any rider mentioning the noisy chain. Second, output sprocket on Lahar/Zerode G1 is very similiar in size to Pinion output sprocket, isn't it? So why did Metzy talked about small idler unable to keep the chain quite and that it would have required larger sprocket?
I'm guessing he realized on his enduro prototype that high pivot is not welcome on enduro/AM trails. That combined with his will to use Pinion gearbox led him to a low pivot which is in very similiar position like Devinci Spartan's main pivot.
I wonder if Metzy was considering Rohloff Speedhub for enduro project? It would again require two chains but could be built lighter (than with Pinion) with some interesting axle path and antisquat.
 

fluider

Monkey
Jun 25, 2008
440
9
Bratislava, Slovakia
But it would be wonderfull if Zerode can inspire at least few other brands to switch to a gearbox, be it Pinion or Speedhub. Or they will stay at the same point like they did after Lahar proved its strengths.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,028
1,040
01776
My guess is that the lower pivot has a broader appeal and may allow zerode to grab a larger market share without alienating customers afraid of the higher pivot. This should be a frame that people can hop on and be happy with (mostly) without compounding the weirdness of a gearbox with the weirdness of a high pivot. I don't think split pivot would really bring anything to the table, I just think a slightly higher pivot (than the chainring) yields more antisquat with minimal drawbacks that don't really exist on the trail. Bikes with single pivots in good areas like the evils, some cannondales, most treks all pedal very well with minimal negative effects....

Anyways, this is a great concept, but it's just not for me. Drivetrains are pretty great these days. My XT setup shifts wonderfully, outside of the largest two cogs. My narrow wide doesn't miss a beat, and the clutch keeps the bike quiet. I'd like better hub spacing and I'd probably drop back to 10 speed if I had my druthers, but I have little to complain about with the drivetrains on my DH and trail bike...making gearboxes less desirable until somebody can figure out a better system than we seem to be getting.
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,499
286
SLO
I yet can't understand his complaints about the idler on high-pivot. As far as I know, Lahar frame which Zerode G1/G2 is based on, doesn't use any idler and I can't remember any rider mentioning the noisy chain. Second, output sprocket on Lahar/Zerode G1 is very similiar in size to Pinion output sprocket, isn't it? So why did Metzy talked about small idler unable to keep the chain quite and that it would have required larger sprocket?
The output sprocket on The Alfine was big like 4"-5" diameter. I have it at home and can look. Most people pedal a DH sled way less than a trail bike. He had his proto for 2 years I am sure he tried different ways to make it quite. I was surprised to see the move away from a high point but have ridden enough Enduro rigs over the last 1.5 years to know how good a low SP can be on them.
 

fluider

Monkey
Jun 25, 2008
440
9
Bratislava, Slovakia
I totally uderstand Metzy about his move to enduro bikes, it can bring some decent and stable income to his two-man company. I even totally understand his move to a traditional linkage design to appeal more customers, it's correct. But why the reasoning he did mention? Anyway, it's a great looking bike that will surely ride nicely well, I'm sure of that. It has interesting proportions in wheelbase, chainstay, etc. Had I money, and not invested in my Rune v1 frame resurraction, I would definitely considered this frame! Derailers should be derailed at last!:-)
 

andrextr

Chimp
Aug 6, 2007
63
67
Portugal
Hello guys! Just finished the Zerode G2 suspension analysis. How do you think the analysis results compare with your feelings on the G2? I'm particularly interested on the braking issue. I don't think it's very important, but who knows... Bye

 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,499
286
SLO
Hello guys! Just finished the Zerode G2 suspension analysis. How do you think the analysis results compare with your feelings on the G2? I'm particularly interested on the braking issue. I don't think it's very important, but who knows... Bye
Nice thanks for doing that. I would agree with most of the graph. The bike pedals very well even with little LSC on the shock. Every once in awhile I can tell the rear stiffens under braking. It isn't a huge deal since it is very mild. The ability for it to deal with the rest of the rough terrain makes up for that I feel. It is very linear I had my CCDB Air with three large air can spacers in it and the HSC was like 3/4 of the way through its clicks.
 

andrextr

Chimp
Aug 6, 2007
63
67
Portugal
Nice thanks for doing that. I would agree with most of the graph. The bike pedals very well even with little LSC on the shock. Every once in awhile I can tell the rear stiffens under braking. It isn't a huge deal since it is very mild. The ability for it to deal with the rest of the rough terrain makes up for that I feel. It is very linear I had my CCDB Air with three large air can spacers in it and the HSC was like 3/4 of the way through its clicks.
Thank you, that perfectly matches with the graphs (numbers don't lie eheh)! :) I never tested a bike with such a rearward travel, I would like to test that :) Bye
 
Jun 29, 2016
1
0
Hey guys I was just wondering if the rearward axle path has a detrimental effect to the cornering ability of the g27.5 thanks in advance
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,499
286
SLO


No it isn't as noticeable as some other bikes. The rear wheel follows the fork so the rearward growth isn't straight back. Every once in a while on a very tight turn you can tell it gets a bit "longer"....
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,499
286
SLO
13502973_1020675304668486_5315781718168621599_o.jpg


"I posted this 5 hours ago now but didn't have time to write anything whitty or informative...

Having had a quick look at the comments I decided I'll go with the informative option. Yes, these lines represent the anti squat of the suspension design. Those that understand the lines will see it is 100 percent anti squat or Zero suspension bob, which is a very good thing. The cool thing about a simple design like this and the fixed chain line is that it stays very close to 100 percent through the entire travel range. That's a sure fire way to get a bike that pedals as good as is possible. Something that is very difficult to achieve if multi link designs. There is a real elegance in this simple design that is overlooked by the media...

And of course, the weight. This one came in at about 13.6 kg.

Chur Chur"
 

Olga_icannot

Chimp
Aug 16, 2014
36
22
Seattle
jesus christ on a crutch that's a sexy ass bike. fuck.
Agreed^2. Now if only they could do some something about the twist shifter.

I know, I know. Some people love them. I don't. I've tried pretty much every iteration of grip shift going back to the days when the company was called Grip Shift and spent two seasons with a Rholoff on my mtb so it's not for a lack of trying.

If Pinion made a trigger shifter for this bike Zerode would have had my money months ago. Or just wholly embrace the future a put a couple Bluetooth buttons on there and go straight to wireless electronic shifting.
 
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vinny4130

Monkey
Jun 11, 2007
312
106
albuquerque
I wants so bad! I know its required for the gear box to shift but two shifter cables, there must be some sort a trigger fix to that? Nitpicking aside that bike looks amazing!

Water bottle mount?
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,499
286
SLO
That would explain all the braking bumps at Highland. :think:
You dont need to brake while riding this bike.....blame the Demo's out there.
I wants so bad! I know its required for the gear box to shift but two shifter cables, there must be some sort a trigger fix to that? Nitpicking aside that bike looks amazing!

Water bottle mount?
Yeah I can see making a shifter with some sort of cam in it that pulls the cable much further than a traditional one would. Yes it has a water bottle mount...

Features
  • Carbon Frame
  • 650b
  • 12spd Pinion Gearbox
  • 31.6 Seatpost
  • 142mmx12mm rear hub
  • Water Bottle Mount
  • 430mm CS Length
  • 74.5 Seatpost Angle
  • 65 Degree HA
  • 600% Range
  • Equal Gear Steps
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Dec 20, 2007
2,647
739
La Plata, Argentina
I wants so bad! I know its required for the gear box to shift but two shifter cables, there must be some sort a trigger fix to that?
I wonder if the contraption used on some Cavaliere bikes could be adapted to the Pinion gearbox...



http://www.vitalmtb.com/photos/features/DIY-Carbon-Gearbox-Enduro-Bike-Richard-Goldsburys-Bike,8716/DIY-Effigear-Trigger-Shifter-Adapter,87698/sspomer,2



http://www.pinkbike.com/news/effigear-launches-triggger-shifter-for-gearbox-2015.html
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,028
1,040
01776
I've always wondered why they couldn't split the two cable, rotating grip shifter into a pair of shifters, one for up and one for down, on either side of the handlebar. Yeah it's more clutter, but it would be pretty neat.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,738
843
I'm wondering how the brackets for the Pinion box stay snug in the carbon. There can't be many layers around them. Perhaps there is more behind the visible tubes hidden inside the carbon structure.
Most carbon bikes have alloy skeletons that extend into the carbon, often quite substantially (especially at points of high loading). As I'm sure you know, carbon doesn't handle localised loadings well, but sometimes the skeletons are much bigger than most people realise - so a "full carbon" frame can have a reasonable percentage of metal inside.

Sometimes manufacturers don't do this - and the result is cracks in areas like pivots where the excessively small inserts start to tear from the frame.

With that said, the large surface area where the pinion box sits in the Zerode is an example where mostly carbon can/should work well - since there the load is spread out.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,103
403
Styria
Most carbon bikes have alloy skeletons that extend into the carbon, often quite substantially (especially at points of high loading). As I'm sure you know, carbon doesn't handle localised loadings well, but sometimes the skeletons are much bigger than most people realise - so a "full carbon" frame can have a reasonable percentage of metal inside.

Sometimes manufacturers don't do this - and the result is cracks in areas like pivots where the excessively small inserts start to tear from the frame.

With that said, the large surface area where the pinion box sits in the Zerode is an example where mostly carbon can/should work well - since there the load is spread out.
Cheers. Your answers always make me think why the hell did I post such a stupid question. Which is actually good thing, props to your explanation skills.
 

jeremy_2640

Chimp
Oct 4, 2007
94
11
Melbourne
Frothing over this... ridden a P1.18 Ti hardtail I made a couple of years ago and hasn't missed a beat.

Pinion is about to release info for there next gen line. My guess is a long fibre carbon injection moulded casing to save mass weight! (pun intended)...

Hopefully Rob offers this with first batch of bikes!

http://pinion.eu/ 5 hours to go...
 

jeremy_2640

Chimp
Oct 4, 2007
94
11
Melbourne
Frothing over this... ridden a P1.18 Ti hardtail I made a couple of years ago and hasn't missed a beat.

Pinion is about to release info for there next gen line. My guess is a long fibre carbon injection moulded casing to save mass weight! (pun intended)...

Hopefully Rob offers this with first batch of bikes!

http://pinion.eu/ 5 hours to go...
Well die cast casing it is and a few other little improvements. Great to see the evolution of this...

http://www.mtb-news.de/news/2016/08/01/pinion-c-line-leicht-und-kompakt-fuers-trail-e-bike/
 

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
2,499
286
SLO
EUROBIKE-2016-Zerode-1-1140x760.jpg

"If you have been waiting for a gearbox bike that doesn’t weigh the same as a baby elephant, then your wait is over. The new Pinion P1.12 gearbox equipped Zerode packs 160 mm of aggressive travel, 12 speeds offering a huge 600% range (more than any 1x drivetrain), impressive ground clearance and weighs around 14 kg. The front derailleur is dead, is this the end of the rear too? | zerodebikes.com"

I am done with The Django and was listing it locally. The XL Zerode will be ready in November maybe I will wait a bit and just build one of these up instead....