The Zerode thread
- Thread starter EVRAC
- Start date
Is your argument that just counting numbers of teeth is pointless? Because yeah, no shit. I wasn't doing that. I'm talking about a percentage change in gear ratio between gears. That absolutely does mean something.
Comparing to actual gearing in a conventional drivetrain is a little harder because the pinion gearing depends on both the gearing in the gearbox (which gives you a fixed 600% range, irrespective of the chainring and wheel cog used) and the choice of chainring and cassette cog, which shifts that range to either a higher or lower set of gears, depending on their relative sizes. But your current chainring setup with a 10-46 cassette would give you about a 600% range as well.
Are you actually arguing that an average is meaningless because the numbers that it's averaging aren't exactly the same?
FWIW, that Eagle cassette gives gear ratio changes of:
20
16.66667
14.28571
12.5
16.66667
14.28571
16.66667
14.28571
12.5
16.66667
19.04762
That's in percent change, starting at the high gears and working lower. For comparison, an 11-40 Shimano gives:
18.18182
15.38462
13.33333
11.76471
10.52632
14.28571
12.5
14.81481
12.90323
14.28571
I'd argue the Shimano is better for two reasons. 1) It's got smaller and more consistent changes in ratio. 2) It does a much better job of distributing the changes. The gear ratio changes on the lower half of the cassette are smaller and more consistent, which is the part of the cassette where you're actually sitting and spinning for long periods of time, while climbing. In the higher gears, you're more likely to be sprinting between corners or features or whatever, so maintaining a smooth, even cadence matters less.
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www.ritzelrechner.de
Yes, it is a german site but I'm confident that you gentlemen will figure how it works. If not call for help and it shall arrive.
You can also compare two different setups.
Yes, it is a german site but I'm confident that you gentlemen will figure how it works. If not call for help and it shall arrive.
You can also compare two different setups.
And now lets bitch about something entirely different - how quick is the engagement of the gearbox? I read somewhere that the free stroke of the Pinion is "big".
I don't know the answer but good question. I've always found gearbox bikes to have sloppy engagement and the owners end up having to run 3-million engagement point hubs to try and compensate.
That doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the crappy shifters though - SRAM dual thumb shifters are a joy to use in my book (not peasant-spec X9 either re: zerode's old "regular shifter conversion", XO/XO1/XX1 feel substantially better), and gearbox bikes always have "alternative" shifters that are horrible to use.
Gripshift? Is your target audience a bunch of 5 year olds?
It's not that I oppose the idea of a gearbox, it's just that gearbox bikes still make silly sacrifices (crappy shifters, dumb nonstandard cranks, frame weights which are always substantially higher when properly compared) to get rid of a part that I've never had much problem with personally - the derailleur.
I recall reading about the Effigear being "mushi", but not about the Pinion. Do you have any links to share?
http://twentynineinches.com/mitech-epsilon-pinion-gear-box-fs-29er-mid-term-i/
The free stroke of the PINION P1.18 is unusually big. The PINION engineers have gone to great lengths for getting all different parameters of durability, weight, and engagement (and many more) to their optimum and openly communicate that the P1.18 needed to take this slight compromise to keep all other aspects at the highest possible levels. But as it is, even someone like me, who is not too picky about instant engagement, does notice the long way the cranks sometimes rotates before engagement (which by the way is bombproof and secure) is happening. Especially when riding in technical terrain I felt it actually affecting my ride. To reduce this effect to a minimum, PINION offers a special rear hub in cooperation with ACROS (essentially a single speed hub with a very fast engagement).
The Pinion is supposed to be better than Eff box is. When I build mine I think an ONYX or Profile hub will be used BTW. My G2 with Profile on back had no play at all so I am hoping its the same on the trail bike....
Is that a MD or LG? The black is clear coated not flat matte?
I keep waiting for info on larges....
Tooling was started for an XL frame back in October apparently.
Pretty sure both Rob and Ali are riding larges?
I'll measure it when it's next back in the shop.
Yeah first batch was medium, and larges were supposed to be a few weeks after I think
Yours?
No a guy in NZ. I haven't got mine yet....Yours?
Last night I came to a flowy DH section and shifted into 1:2.235 and pedaled for about 5 strokes. My rear tire was spinning at 144.82 rpm's, just enough to get me to 17.90 fps. All of a sudden the trail shot up and turned 107* around this tree. I shifted to 1.407 but realized that 1.130 was ideal. Unfortunately, I didn't have time to shift my (old school) front derailleur to get me into my 1.266, where I would have really liked it, but now I know for next time.
good
n00b
Your stance was far too flexy for that.
So I have been on the Pinion for about four months. Riding it 2-3 times each week. It is setup with a 30t front sprocket and 30t rear sprocket, so 1:1 external gearing. The range in the box is incredible. The lowest gear feels like a 22t front and like a 38t or 40t rear. On the highest gear feels like a 36t front and a 10t rear. The jump between gears, I feel, is spot on. It feels very evenly spaced (not sure how else to say it) or like the jumps are just what you want them to be, not too small and not too large of a jump.
The free hub in the box can use a higher engagment. I spoke with Pinion about and it looks like that is the way it will be a for a bit. It is a minor complaint. The box is super smooth, no perceptable drag, shifitng feels lovely and you don't have to pedal. That is a huge benefit! The grip shift is actually something I have come to like better than a trigger now, especially if you want to dump 2-3 gears at once.
The cranks feel nice and stiff and are light. Feels like a set of XT's
Really, you may say you like your derailluer. But when you ride one of these, i bet 95% of those will stick with the box. They are waaaaaaaaaaayyyyy better, especially for gravity riders.
The free hub in the box can use a higher engagment. I spoke with Pinion about and it looks like that is the way it will be a for a bit. It is a minor complaint. The box is super smooth, no perceptable drag, shifitng feels lovely and you don't have to pedal. That is a huge benefit! The grip shift is actually something I have come to like better than a trigger now, especially if you want to dump 2-3 gears at once.
The cranks feel nice and stiff and are light. Feels like a set of XT's
Really, you may say you like your derailluer. But when you ride one of these, i bet 95% of those will stick with the box. They are waaaaaaaaaaayyyyy better, especially for gravity riders.
By the way, I climb every ride we do. Some are pretty steep grades 1.5 - 3 miles . Mine is a DH bike and the lowest gear makes fairly nice to climb. Good workout, but still have enough legs for the DH.
I have a P1.18 and there isn't any drivetrain drag. The combined tire, suspension and brake drag/inefficiencies cause issues but nothing in the gearbox.
The only drive issue that sometimes comes up on the trail is the freewheel in the gearbox, when moving slowly (rocky uphills especially) the additional freewheel and deadspots sometimes cause issues. All other benefits including the gripshift far outweigh this though.
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This interests me. What is the total dead spot like, in terms of degrees of crank rotation in low gears?
If you use a high engagement rear hub that helps, but the degree of rotation on the free wheel in the box could be better. It is not a glaring issue and not noticable most of the time. Just those times when your on a ridge 2 feet wide with death drops on either side and you are crawling into a monster drop and wish you could just burp the crank for that tiny amount force you need get you in without having to move the pedals much.
This is good to know, and the I9 hub has same engagement as pinion's hub, 120pt or 3 degrees. I forsee my dj bike being jealous..
I have read that Cavalerie uses a fixed rear hub on some of their bikes. How would that work out with a Pinion gearbox?
I know you can use a SINGLE SPEED hub not sure if it needs a freewheel though...