**GAG**
Damn USA... alwasy trying to screw over other countries...what with our hamburgers and American style french fries...
they caught hussein, this is soooooo bad
- Thread starter biggins
- Start date
Damn USA... alwasy trying to screw over other countries...what with our hamburgers and American style french fries...
that's what i was thinking. wow, it must be super to be an enlightened non-redneck.Originally posted by Damn True
Bush supporter = drunken redneck
Bush detractor = intelligent and erudite people like you
apparently the silent majority of america are just drunken-rednecks, none of which can form any non-media biased opinion on their own. is that what they teach you up there in oregon?
Sanctions are what the wet noodle spined UN likes to call decisive action.
Sanctions are what resulted when we listen to them.
The UN is broke and needs to be fixed.
What aboot Cuba? Would you blame the UN for that?
The thing with sanctions is that they might have some effect on a democracy where the people can influence government but in a dictatorship they're simply oppressive. If you (non-specific you btw) reduce the wealth of a nation that is run by a small elite you further polarise the distribution of wealth. Hence the ordinary citizen suffers whilst the dictators do not.
Cuba is an excellent place to talk about in regards to sanctions and the effect on the people. The best thing the US could do is lift the sanctions completely. The overwhelming amount of trade that would happen almost instantaneously would make it exceptionally difficult for the government to stay in control of the people. Especially with Castro getting on in years.
The sanctions served their purposes in regards to Cuba. BUT here is the kicker to the whole mess. The President who does it can virtually assure his party losing Florida in the next presidential election because of the Cuban population there. So it is unlikely that any president is going to be willing to pull that trigger anytime soon.
I agree that the sanctions should be lifted. They should have been lifted years ago. But, the memory of the backstabbing Castro pulled in the 50's, combined with the loud voices of exiled Cubans keeps this stupid policy in place. I question whether the form of government will fall simply because we stop the embargo. Cuba has been open to everyone else for years and Castro has had basically a lifetime to install and firm up a government that looks to have some staying power. I think our influence in this matter is overstated.
And you are probably right that Florida will pay back any president who opens up Cuba to US trade. And that is a shame. Another example of how American politicians play the crowds and not the issues. We have no one willing to risk anymore in American Politics.
I think you misinterpreted what I said about the government. When that sort of money comes pouring into a poor economy and folks start to get a taste of the "good" life, they push for more and more. Which forces the government to modify itself. The samething has been seen in China and Vietnam. Already with foreign investments from countries other than the US, the Cuban market has made a marked shift from a strict centrally planned one to more market driven one. US dollars are legal in Cuba and within in the next 3 to 5 years will be the based of 50 to 70 percent of the economy. Competition amongest companies exists in markets that could never have been imagined just a few years ago.
No the amount of influence that I am talking about is not overstated. If the embargo on just US tourism alone was lifted you are talking an estimated $1 billion in money (annually) that would go flowing into the Cuban economy. Take the entire embargo off and the amount of US money, goods and services being talked about is HUGE well in excess of $20 billion annually. There is simply no way that the Cuba can digest that investment and inflow without further changes in its governmental ecomonic structure.
that was the whole reason Chretien and Canada stayed out of the war on iraq and why they only sent peacekeepers to afghanistan. Ever since 9.11 they been rerunning that video on canadian television. just to make sure everyone has seen it.
as for saddam a-go-go...
i don't care anymore, as long as he doesn't escape, i ain't about to care anytime soon.
Crum's right though. Politics is pandering to the groups that scream the loudest, and the Cuban exiles in Florida are a shrill group to say the least.
But what was the back-stabbing that Castro pulled in the 50s?
Maybe our influence would be as you claim should the embargo be lifted in the near future. But that is not likely. With the Cuban economy already starting to gain ground, and foreign investment other than US dollars streaming in, by the time we lift the Embargo, our influence will not be as big a deal. Certainly what happened in China and Viet Nam will happen in Cuba. But the longer we wait to open that market, the less inclined Cuba will be to play ball. Like the elephant, the US is not likely to forgive or forget the flip flop Castro pulled on us in the 50's. And frankly, I don't get it. We do business with China and they are certainly a scarier partner than Cuba could ever hope to be. So, I can only point to the heavy handed influence of the exiled Cubans in Florida and our sulky attitude over past history.
We supported Castro in his early stages of getting the revolution together. As it turned out, he was accepting aid form Russia and in the 11th hour declared his allegiance to them. That really made the US mad. Then add in the Bay of Pigs, Cuban Missle Crisis, and his continuous nose thumbing, and that really made us mad. He honestly has no use for us. That may indeed be the real problem.
Didn't the US snub Castro? I seem to remember that when he came on a visit that he was given a bit of a runaround.
And you surely can't blame him for the Bay of Pigs, what would you have had him done?
Maybe it's me but the US perspective on Castro seems more than a little wonky.
The missile thing was a but nuts on his part for sure but in some ways it was just an earlier version of the paranoia currently at work in North Korea (and the USSR for many years).
Yes, actually this is true. You are still full of **** on the horse **** issue though.
You were really irked by that weren't you?Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Yes, actually this is true. You are still full of **** on the horse **** issue though.
I've just sold my horse so I can return to being a two-wheeled trail reactionary and come back onto the fold.
Unless you're considering sanctions for the next fifty years...
Fifty years should do it.Originally posted by fluff
You were really irked by that weren't you?
I've just sold my horse so I can return to being a two-wheeled trail reactionary and come back onto the fold.
Unless you're considering sanctions for the next fifty years...
Every time I get a horse poo nug in my mouth, I think of you. Thanks.
First of all, I am not blaming Castro for anything. The incidents I described are but some of the possible reasons there are hard feelings between my government and his. The Bay of Pigs was Kennedy's fault. Castro just responded like anyone would when faced with a barrel full of ducks. The missile thing was where Castro showed how smart he was. By agreeing to nukes on his land, he scored huge aid and then sat back while the US and Russia played around the edge of nuclear catastrophe. My guess is he was laughing at both of us. And maybe what really pissed the US off was the fact that Castro has bettered us on most of the encounters we have had with him.
And you are right, the US perspective on Cuba is most definitely "wonky". I am not sure what that means, but I can guess.
As far as the paranoia regarding N. Korea. We should be paranoid.
I thought about mentioning collateral damage.Originally posted by Ridemonkey
Fifty years should do it.
Every time I get a horse poo nug in my mouth, I think of you. Thanks.
But then I decided that I didn't want to antagonise you so it wouldn't be wise.