[DirtMcGirk]

There are days I am truly blessed that in Reno that I've had my same bike shop here for 15 some years. Today is a case in point study of that.

Back wheel on the 303 had a wobble, wasn't holding air as well as it should have (ust) and just wasn't as rad as I was hoping for.

Took both wheels into my shop, who did not build them last year for me due to schedule problems, and low and behold there is just a cornucopia of problems.

Back wheel had no spoke prep on any of the spokes.
Font wheel had six stripped out nipples due to someone running loctite into the spoke holes.

Thankfully my guys, who I shop from on what feels like a daily basis, can fix this without a) raping me for pay and b) making the problems any worse.

I know some of us have had issues with our LBS's, but the good ones are worth keeping in business.

I learned 1. Know who is building your wheels, and make sure they know you, and 2. once you find someone who is competent, don't deviate from them just because of little problems like schedule.

 

[caseyo]

Build your own wheels.

 

[J_B]

Did ya replace your E13 bashguard?????????????/

 

[gonefirefightin]

send me your hubs and hoops from now on, I will build your wheels, got a phil wood spoke machine and all the goodies

 

[TheMontashu]

send me your hubs and hoops from now on, I will build your wheels, got a phil wood spoke machine and all the goodies

WTF do you need one of those for????

 

[gonefirefightin]

WTF do you need one of those for????

I travel the united states as a privateer racing..........

I can do more out of my trailer than 80% of the bike shops in the nation

 

[HAB]

send me your hubs and hoops from now on, I will build your wheels, got a phil wood spoke machine and all the goodies

Those things are BADASS. I've gotten to use one a bit, they're great. Current shop doesn't have one though.



I spent a lot of time today dealing with other shop's incompetence. Guy comes in with a bike he'd bought somewhere else, and the front derailleur rubs on the big ring when the chain is in the middle ring. He said the other shop told him he needed to space out his BB to change his chainline to fix the problem. He said, perhaps unsurprisingly, that they went out of business a week after he bought the bike. I raised his FD a few mm and all was well. Then a lady came in with a tandem with a drum brake that another shop had "fixed," which is to say had taken apart and assembled improperly. Then another bike came in that the same shop had declared dead after it had been backed over by a Chevy Suburban. After straightening the derailleur hanger, beating the front wheel on the floor a bit, and a few other tweaks of similar nature, it's all good to go except for reattaching one of the front dropouts, which broke off. That'll get taken care of in a day or two.

 

[DirtyMike]

WTF do you need one of those for????

Cutting spokes DUh!!!

 

[stoney]

Phil Wood machines are great. My shop in college had one; I got completely spoiled using it.
Mushu, just because you worked at a shop doesn't make you a wrench. Ask Sanjuro about the difference between a shop rat and a mechanic. He'll let you know where you fall, but your comment of "why do you need that" should be enough for the rest of us to guess...

 

[gonefirefightin]

Did ya replace your E13 bashguard?????????????/

 

[DirtMcGirk]

Yup, replaced my bash guard. its been a hard summer to be the 303. Head hasn't always been into riding at the time, normally thinking about some dumb ass big tittied redhead, and then I go splat. Got rid of the redhead, got the wheels fixed, replaced the bash, cleaned the chain. Maybe I can start riding right again.

 

[HAB]

Mushu, just because you worked at a shop doesn't make you a wrench. Ask Sanjuro about the difference between a shop rat and a mechanic. He'll let you know where you fall, but your comment of "why do you need that" should be enough for the rest of us to guess...

And based on some of the crap work I saw today, it seems that some managers at other shops are having trouble telling the difference.

 

[TheMontashu]

I travel the united states as a privateer racing..........

I can do more out of my trailer than 80% of the bike shops in the nation

I would say more than 80%, if I remember correctly you're certified to rebuild fox stuff

Phil Wood machines are great. My shop in college had one; I got completely spoiled using it.
Mushu, just because you worked at a shop doesn't make you a wrench. Ask Sanjuro about the difference between a shop rat and a mechanic. He'll let you know where you fall, but your comment of "why do you need that" should be enough for the rest of us to guess...

I was thinking more the price tag, the whole costing up over 3 grand, steers many shops from getting them, much less an individual.

 

[-dustin]

I don't like the Phil cutter and think the one Hjertberg sells is a better option.

1) Phil guide can shift, so getting consistent lengths is not as easy as it should be.
2) Need a seperate guide for short spokes (I was building a generator hub into a 16" rim...total pain in the ass to get the proper spoke lengths)
3) Switching from 2.0 to 1.8 and vice versa is cumbersome.
4) Cut portion of spokes flies everywhere randomly.
5) Will occasionally jam.

DMG - what was the labor cost to fix your wheel? just curious.

 

[stoney]

I don't like the Phil cutter and think the one Hjertberg sells is a better option.

1) Phil guide can shift, so getting consistent lengths is not as easy as it should be.
2) Need a seperate guide for short spokes (I was building a generator hub into a 16" rim...total pain in the ass to get the proper spoke lengths)
3) Switching from 2.0 to 1.8 and vice versa is cumbersome.
4) Cut portion of spokes flies everywhere randomly.
5) Will occasionally jam.

DMG - what was the labor cost to fix your wheel? just curious.

1) Do you ever tape the slide in place?
2) Yeah, that's freakish. I managed to build a 16" disc wheel. Hard, but doable.
3) six allen bolts and a spacer?
4) Set up a hole with a trashcan behind the tool. 95% catch rate.
5) As does every tool...

Either way, having either tool is a god send to a wrench.

 

[DirtMcGirk]

I think they're charging me $50 to fix the two. Not sure yet.

 

[HAB]

I think they're charging me $50 to fix the two. Not sure yet.

Damn dude. Labor to rebuild both of them would be less than that at my shop.

 

[stoney]

That's not bad. Locally labor on a wheel is ~$75/wheel, but $.50/spoke.

 

[loco-gringo]

Damn dude. Labor to rebuild both of them would be less than that at my shop.

Your shop has retarded labor rates if that's the case. Not flaming you, but wheel builds should be $30 - $35 per wheel, IMO.

 

[HAB]

That's not bad. Locally labor on a wheel is ~$75/wheel, but $.50/spoke.

Christ, what kind of hourly rate are those shops charging? Or are they just that slow? It's ~$20 labor and .50 a spoke for 14g DTs with brass nipples where I work.

Edit:

Your shop has retarded labor rates if that's the case. Not flaming you, but wheel builds should be $30 - $35 per wheel, IMO.

It's about $30 an hour. I have no idea what's the norm elsewhere.

 

[stoney]

$60/hr. Welcome to SF. Isht is expensive here.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I would say more than 80%, if I remember correctly you're certified to rebuild fox stuff

yep, but most people can do it them selves, they just dont have the holy grail of tools and factory parts on hand. (bushing tool/cartridge tools)

I don't like the Phil cutter and think the one Hjertberg sells is a better option.

the Morizumi is an awesome tool but it tended to change dia on me alot when I used it, maybe it was the one I was using at the time. seems perfect for a shop that is cutting different spokes all the time.

I have all the dies for the phil and I like the fact that every spoke comes out exactly with the same threads. personal preference I guess.

I find myself paying for my fuel cost by rebuilding forks and wheels when at the races since there are no shops close or open and guys are an hour away from a start time. I still only charge them cost for materials and average shop rates for labor.

 

[HAB]

$60/hr. Welcome to SF. Isht is expensive here.

Yeah, Upstate NY is undoubtedly cheaper in general.

1:15 is kinda slow though.

 

[stoney]

Flat rate fees.

 

[gonefirefightin]

Yeah, Upstate NY is undoubtedly cheaper in general.

1:15 is kinda slow though.

my fastest time for a wheelset build was 34 minutes (including cutting time)

some semi pro kid at banner elk (sugar mt.) during a nationals race (07 I think) had a full taco front and ate the derailuer on the rear in his practice run.

he had 49 minutes to be at the start gate for his roll off. he heard about me and carry his bike down with a wad of wet cash (it was raining)

I kicked everyone out of the trailer, fired up the generator for AC and shut all the doors and cranked up the slayer.

he was putting his wheels on the bike while riding the lift back up the hill.

his dad came down after his run while I was cleaning up all the spoke pieces all over the trailer and tossed me a Benjamin and cold 12er.

I think the kid is on RM somewhere but dont know his name.

 

[HAB]

my fastest time for a wheelset build was 34 minutes (including cutting time)

some semi pro kid at banner elk (sugar mt.) during a nationals race (07 I think) had a full taco front and ate the derailuer on the rear in his practice run.

he had 49 minutes to be at the start gate for his roll off. he heard about me and carry his bike down with a wad of wet cash (it was raining)

I kicked everyone out of the trailer, fired up the generator for AC and shut all the doors and cranked up the slayer.

he was putting his wheels on the bike while riding the lift back up the hill.

his dad came down after his run while I was cleaning up all the spoke pieces all over the trailer and tossed me a Benjamin and cold 12er.

I think the kid is on RM somewhere but dont know his name.

40-45 min or so is about normal for me if I've got the right length spokes ready to go, which is pretty much all the time. I think the last time I can remember not having the right spokes for someone was when they needed to build a 650c wheel with a deep section rim and straight pulls.

 

[gonefirefightin]

took me a while to figure out the lengths for large marge hoops

 

[HAB]

took me a while to figure out the lengths for large marge hoops

Never done one of those. Imagine that would be interesting, especially with the off center rear.

My boss did a cool one the other day. Woman got plowed by a car, and trashed her Campy road rear wheel. It's one of the ones with 27 spokes, 18 drive side, 9 non drive. Getting a replacement 27h rim was stupidly expensive so he built the hub onto a 36h Open Pro, and left 9 spoke holes empty. Radial non drive, 3x drive side.

 

[gonefirefightin]

I hope he used some stout (2.0 straight guage or similiar) spokes, but then again, women arent that hard on rear wheels

 

[stoney]

A good wheel builder can figure out the tensions, it's *basic* math. But yes, those are always impressive builds.

 

[HAB]

I hope he used some stout (2.0 straight guage or similiar) spokes, but then again, women arent that hard on rear wheels

I didn't pay that much attention, but they were probably 14g DTs with brass nipples.

That said, it's really no different than the original Campy setup, there's just some extra holes drilled in the rim. Theirs don't have the spokes evenly spaced either. That held up for her until she got hit by a car so....

 

[HAB]

A good wheel builder can figure out the tensions, it's *basic* math. But yes, those are always impressive builds.

It wouldn't be a particularly hard build to do, you'd just need to run extra high tension in the non drive side spokes. It was just a neat idea.

 

[gonefirefightin]

A good wheel builder can figure out the tensions, it's *basic* math. But yes, those are always impressive builds.

I am a complete geek when it comes to tools and wheel building, I have sat internet in the trailer so I can get online (dt swiss, wheel builder and spoke calc.) and use sweet gadgets like this for the fancy builds.

DH wheels are super simple and dont require it but if I have the time I will use it.

not a fan of "hear" tuning wheels

I have a old school TS-1 truing stand from park (dual micrometer guages) , I bought out most of thier rebuild parts for it that they had on the shelf.

A mavic mech offered me 2grand for it at sea otter.....

 

[-dustin]

- Haven't taped it...will try that out. Usually just measure every 4th or 5th spoke. For newbies, properly cradling the spoke can be confusing.
- 6 allens and a spacer...actually, i think it's just 3 SAE allen bolts and a spacer. the whole "loosen the 3 bolts and slide in the spacer, then turn the crank 90* so that blah blah blah." Half the time that doesn't work. Not really an issue when dropping down to 1.8, but when going back to 2.0, if it's not correct, the crank will jam, or the threads won't be rolled deep enough. maybe newer ones are different? i think ours is pushing 20yrs.
- tool is mounted to the spoke cabinet already. i try to catch them in my apron.

but yes, it comes in handy.

 

[-dustin]

man...you guys doing 1hr wheelbuilds....must be nice. i can't do **** in an hour because of interruptions. wheelbuilds? more like 2.5 to 3hrs.

if i have to measure the hub and rim...ugh...that's another hour. it's so awesome having the only computer right next to the register and entryway to the shop.

 

[-dustin]

use sweet gadgets like this for the fancy builds.

Hjertberg sent me the diagram (pdf and some CAD file) and parts list to build one of those. I need to get on that.

Hjertberg apparently likes chasing Big Foot.

 

[gonefirefightin]

man...you guys doing 1hr wheelbuilds....must be nice. i can't do **** in an hour because of interruptions. wheelbuilds? more like 2.5 to 3hrs.

if i have to measure the hub and rim...ugh...that's another hour. it's so awesome having the only computer right next to the register and entryway to the shop.

yeah, working in a shop and wheel building at the same time is never going to be fast. not to mention everyone is leaning over your shoulder asking questions, or it is some wacky hub that has to me miked and mathed out sinc eit isnt on any database.

 

[greenhood]

my fastest time for a wheelset build was 34 minutes (including cutting time)

some semi pro kid at banner elk (sugar mt.) during a nationals race (07 I think) had a full taco front and ate the derailuer on the rear in his practice run.

he had 49 minutes to be at the start gate for his roll off. he heard about me and carry his bike down with a wad of wet cash (it was raining)

I kicked everyone out of the trailer, fired up the generator for AC and shut all the doors and cranked up the slayer.

he was putting his wheels on the bike while riding the lift back up the hill.

his dad came down after his run while I was cleaning up all the spoke pieces all over the trailer and tossed me a Benjamin and cold 12er.

I think the kid is on RM somewhere but dont know his name.

You are an amazing human being. How do you do it?

 

[Bicyclist]

It's about $30 an hour. I have no idea what's the norm elsewhere.

That's crazy-cheap. SoCal shop? We're $45 an hour, most places around here are more in the ballpark of $60 an hour, with flat-rate fees for lots of repairs.

 

[Bicyclist]

I have a old school TS-1 truing stand from park (dual micrometer guages) , I bought out most of thier rebuild parts for it that they had on the shelf.

A mavic mech offered me 2grand for it at sea otter.....

Are those things really worth that kinda money?!? We have one stashed away that doesn't get used all that often...