[mtg]

Bringing this topic back again, at Guerrilla Gravity, we are finishing up our Beta bikes, and putting together build kit specs for the production bikes that will begin in the Spring time.

While we are putting together build kits, is there anything the monkeys want in a build kit, specifically? Anything that manufacturers typically overlook?

*Despite the fact that the industry has recently concluded that 26" wheels are no longer capable of rolling over rocks, we will still be using them on the GG/DH.

 

[kidwoo]

While we are putting together build kits, is there anything the monkeys want in a build kit, specifically? Anything that manufacturers typically overlook?

Real wheels and tires. Meaning straight gauge spokes, real rims and tires that don't say 'schwalbe' or 'continental' on them.

Brakes that aren't named avid elixir because they're cheap oem deals.

That's about it for me. Everything else pretty much works usually.

Wish I lived in CO. The bikes you guys are building look sweet.

 

[mtg]

Real wheels and tires. Meaning straight gauge spokes, real rims and tires that don't say 'schwalbe' or 'continental' on them.

Brakes that aren't named avid elixir because they're cheap oem deals.

That's about it for me. Everything else pretty much works usually.

Wish I lived in CO. The bikes you guys are building look sweet.

Thanks, man. Don't you normally find yourself crushing Bike Sol Granby Vista Ranch in the summer at least once or so?

 

[kidwoo]

Thanks, man. Don't you normally find yourself crushing Bike Sol Granby Vista Ranch in the summer at least once or so?

Back when the real builders worked there yes. Not so into the new 'management'. Those guys messed up a good thing. I might get out there next summer to hang with the momentum guys at some point. I'm trying convince that ballr guy to move out here.

Give me a holler if you guys ever have a frame on the west coast. I'd love to see one in person.

 

[mtg]

Good point, Sol Vista is not the same anymore.

Making a trip or two out West is something we're wanting to do- likely Nevada state champs, possibly a Fontana race, probably some Gnar Gnar shuttles in AZ. So much riding to do, not enough time...

 

[kidwoo]

summer...........think summer

 

[Kanye West]

Something like this needs to be adapted for DH use - http://tubliss.com/

Pslide, I really like your idea of a BOA-type mechanism to allow for installation/removal.

I use those systems on my dirt bikes. The nice thing about them (besides the unreal traction and comfort) is that if you do manage to flat them, you cannot roll the tire off the rim. I completed the 2nd loop of a desert racecourse last year (40 miles of techy stuff on that loop) with a flat rear and it slowed me down only a little bit. I didn't have to worry about losing it off the rim while still hitting the whoop sections across the valleys.

I had always thought a non-pneumatic kind of beadlock for MTB tubeless systems would be appropriate. Wire-wrapped system with a tightening nut through a rimlock or something.

The weight penalty would be too much though. The extra 50-100g would make it so unbearably heavy, that your DH bike would actually slow to a stop, and start moving back uphill. So that's obviously not going to be an option.

 

[mtg]

The motorcycle Tubliss system seems pretty cool.

Any other thoughts on what people want to see in build kits? Not just which components, but any other aspects as well. For example, one request on our facebook page was to have a consumables package with extra brake pads, tires, chain, etc. And, we have been weighing all of the components so far to produce pretty accurate complete bike weight estimates based on the chosen build.

 

[Sandwich]

I think consumables or wet/dry weather packages might not be a bad idea. Backup pads and pulleys aren't horrible. I think another good one might be to avoid the straight up SRAM build kit and give an option of sram or shimano. You guys have a pretty decent feel on the pulse of the rider community, so it should be easy to see what works (Minion DHF 2.5s 42a) and what doesn't. coloUrways might be another option, if you have the resources, to do. Blue bars, ring, post, etc.

 

[mattmatt86]

Any other thoughts on what people want to see in build kits? Not just which components, but any other aspects as well. For example, one request on our facebook page was to have a consumables package with extra brake pads, tires, chain, etc. And, we have been weighing all of the components so far to produce pretty accurate complete bike weight estimates based on the chosen build.

I suggested that. I think it would be awesome to have a package of extra bike specific parts to take to races. I currently have my own kit with extras that I bring with me but its all stuff I've cobbled together over the years. If I was buying a new complete bike it would be awesome to have a "backup kit" with an extra rim, extra tire(s), chain, brake pads, derailleur hanger etc.

And while RM seems to be on a 650b kick, have you experimented with the new holy grail wheel size on either of the Alpha Frames? Just curious.

Keep up the good work guys, I'm hoping to pick up one of your frames in the next batch.

 

[mtg]

Yep, I knew that was you We'll keep you in the loop about the production batches.

The spares kit is for sure a good idea that we'll put together.

 

[kidwoo]

I think another good one might be to avoid the straight up SRAM build kit and give an option of sram or shimano.

This is a really good point. Up until the clutch derailleurs, sram was shifter/derailleur company to me and shimano was a crank and brake company to me. With shimano's type 2 setups, a fully specced shimano bike is a really good thing.........better than sram IMO. If you guys have it in you to stock a few of both, it might be a good call.

 

[Sandwich]

yeah, I think people are less focused on level (ie x7 vs. x9) and are more brand conscious. I'm personally a shimano guy, I just don't like the feel of SRAM, but I know plenty of people who love their x9 clickers.

 

[dan-o]

Unless you're planning on moving some serious volume, I'd skip the build kits altogether.
Micro-OE pricing isn't going to allow you enough margin to justify the hassle, imo.

I do see value in suspension options so people can get the chassis they want.
Being able to ship frame/fork/shock packages has merit for you and the consumer, but the rest of the build is a captial-eating headache waiting to happen.

Frame specific spares (such as SC's pro-packs) are a no-brainer though and add real value.

 

[iRider]

While we are putting together build kits, is there anything the monkeys want in a build kit, specifically? Anything that manufacturers typically overlook?

What about decals that are placed in the high wear areas of the frame and are made of a thicker material? So basically integrate protection into the graphics?

Cables: please use quality cables and housings.

I know it sounds odd in this day and time, but I still enjoy the flexibility a conventional stem gives me over direct mounts. Please leave the steerer tube long enough so that people can switch if they want.

Shock and fork: can you provide springs and settings for non-average riders? Not everybody on a medium or large frame weighs 180 #s and not everybody on a small frame is 120 #s but most manufacturers provide soft springs with small frames and vice versa.

 

[Kanye West]

Unless you're planning on moving some serious volume, I'd skip the build kits altogether.
Micro-OE pricing isn't going to allow you enough margin to justify the hassle, imo.

I do see value in suspension options so people can get the chassis they want.
Being able to ship frame/fork/shock packages has merit for you and the consumer, but the rest of the build is a captial-eating headache waiting to happen.

He has a very good point here. Offering build kits to the customer at super low-volume OE pricing is basically just doing the customer a favor, and it's more stuff you have to keep track of and handle and chase paperwork for.

I wish frame manufacturers would offer their frames to be more turn-key upon arrival to the customer. Ship with a headset installed on the faced/reamed headtube, BB installed, shock installed and clickers turned to a decent baseline. Include the fork if they'd like. That way the rest of the bike can be thrown together in a few minutes with some allen keys.

 

[mtg]

Thanks for the input, this is exactly what we're looking for. Keep 'em coming.

Question: I've never used X5, does anybody have experience? Does it work reliably on a DH bike? The idea of giving the option of Sram vs Shimano for shifting preference is a good one, and I think we might be able to accommodate that.

For suspension, Cane Creek already has baseline settings for the DB coil & air for us in their online Tune Finder. Those are based on a 175 lb rider on a 350 lb/in spring (me), so they need tweaking for different riders. Although, I'm adamant about sending the bikes out the door with at least a baseline that makes sense, and being rider-direct, we can actually do that. We know who each bike is going to, and can include the correct springs and damper settings.

 

[UiUiUiUi]

I wish frame manufacturers would offer their frames to be more turn-key upon arrival to the customer. Ship with a headset installed on the faced/reamed headtube, BB installed, shock installed and clickers turned to a decent baseline. Include the fork if they'd like. That way the rest of the bike can be thrown together in a few minutes with some allen keys.

QFT, this is the biggest hassle when building a bike up... the tools to press in a headset, crown race, and now a BB are expensive.

i would love to see frame kits which include frame, shock (with a base setup), Cranks+ BB, Headset and Fork

 

[mtg]

Awesome, thanks again for all of the input! I've had strong feelings all along that we should send bikes out with a decent baseline of spring rate and knob turning- it's great to hear everybody think the same.

Also, you guys will be stoked on our Frameset+ kit, which is real similar to what a few people have asked for (frame, shock, headset, fork, seatpost & clamp).

We know first-hand how much of a PITA it is to ream head tubes and thread BB's....about half as hard as reaming a seat tube