This could get really big... and ugly. Corruption in Washington
- Thread starter XtCamZ
- Start date
i bet DeLay votes against stricter lobbying regulation.
I think both sides have dirty hands on this one....
no question, but word is that abramoff was much cozier w/ the Reps than the Dems. i suppose you sidle up to who's got the power; the Dems aren't any more integrity-driven than the Reps.
Woah, woah, woah!
Corruption?!?! In Washignton?!?! The hell you say!
Corruption?!?! In Washignton?!?! The hell you say!
Any House member that gets his name tied to this is going to find it hard to get reelected. This is an election year so there isn't going to be enough time to distance themselves from any real or perceived misdoings in the eyes of voters. Which will lead to all sorts of drastic measures which leads to the second fallout.
Delay and Hastert are going to be losers regardless. I think that a major shake up of the House leadership will occur, probably within the month. This gives the more moderate GOP members the chance to flex their power some more now that the fund raising power of the conservatives will take a significant beating.
Delay and Hastert are going to be losers regardless. I think that a major shake up of the House leadership will occur, probably within the month. This gives the more moderate GOP members the chance to flex their power some more now that the fund raising power of the conservatives will take a significant beating.
N8 said:
Oh yeah, influence pedaling is practically an institution in Washington.
I'd like to see everyone involved hung, no matter their party lines. I can't help but to feel that the puppets will get punished harder than the puppet masters.
Props to the administration for ferreting out wrongdoers regardless of party lines. At least in this case (as opposed to the Delay fiasco, 7 grand juries w/o a shred of evidence worthy of a trial) the investigation appears not to be motivated by political sour grapes but by rule of law.
Bwaaaaah.Damn True said:
God help the deluded.
Let's see. Alberto Gonzales runs the DOJ and was appointed by whom?
I'm all for distributing both blame for screwups (for instance Ruby Ridge, Waco WTC v1 under Clinton appointed DOJ appointees and WTC v2 under transition Reno & Ashcroft) and success.
I'm all for distributing both blame for screwups (for instance Ruby Ridge, Waco WTC v1 under Clinton appointed DOJ appointees and WTC v2 under transition Reno & Ashcroft) and success.
So, Bush II (sequels usually suck, and this one is no exception), who is installed into office in January of 2001 shares blame with Clinton for the attacks of September 11, 2001?Damn True said:
And Clinton, who was installed into office in January of 1993 takes blame for the first bombing of the World Trade Center which happened February 26, 1993?
Seems fair to me.
Good point. I was thinking that WTCv1 happend in 94. My bad.
My point still stands. Give credit or dersion where due.
My point still stands. Give credit or dersion where due.
Incorrect and not relevant to this thread. The subject is the DOJ investigation and indictment of an influence peddlar. Do try to keep up.
narlus said:
You sure about that?
Democrats Benefited from Abramoff Contributions, Too
By Melanie Hunter
CNSNews.com Senior Editor
January 05, 2006
(CNSNews.com) - The National Republican Senatorial Committee said Wednesday that 40 of 45 members of the Senate Democrat Caucus have taken money from lobbyist Jack Abramoff, his associates and Indian tribe clients.
Abramoff pled guilty Tuesday to conspiracy, fraud and tax evasion. He also plans to implicate a number of U.S. lawmakers and congressional staffers in a bribery scandal.
Among those named by the NRSC as the worst examples of "Democrat hypocrisy" for taking money from Abramoff and his associates are: Sen. Byron Dorgan, (D-N.D.) who received at least $79,300; Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), who received at least $45,750; Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), who received at least $68,941 and Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), who received at least $6,250.
Dorgan is among the lawmakers who have already returned campaign donations or given those donations to charity.
Bush campaign
President Bush's re-election campaign plans to give away $6,000 in campaign contributions from lobbyist Jack Abramoff, the Associated Press reported.
Abramoff reportedly raised at least $100,000 for Bush's re-election campaign, earning himself the honorary title of "pioneer."
The White House said Bush does not know Abramoff personally, but it's possible the two met at holiday receptions.
Several Republican lawmakers, including House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) and former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.), also announced plans to give Abramoff's campaign contributions to charity.
narlus said:
Are you kidding? That guy is near the top of the Tin foil hat club organization chart. I did read it and it seems to be rubbish. Both sides of the aisle are dirty.
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20060105/a_abramofflist05.art.htm
Top recipients by political party
Jack Abramoff, Indian tribes he represented and people connected to his SunCruz casino boat company gave a total of $4.4 million to more than 240 members of Congress and political committees from 1999 through 2005, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks campaign contributions. Some tribes may have given money at their own initiative, separate from Abramoff's advice. Here are the top 10 recipients in each party:
Rep. J.D. Hayworth, R Ariz., $101,620
House Speaker Dennis R Hastert, Ill., $69,000{+1}
Sen. Thad Cochran, R Miss., $65,500
Sen. Conrad Burns,R Mont., $59,950{+1}
Rep. Richard Pombo, R Calif., $54,500{+1}
Rep. Jim McCrery, R La., $52,750{+1}
Rep. John Doolittle, R Calif., $50,000
Don Nickles, former senator ,R Okla., $40,000
Rep. Dave Camp, R Mich., $35,500
Rep. John Boehner, R Ohio, $32,500
Brad Carson, former congressman, R Okla., $20,600
Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D, R.I., $42,500
Sen. Patty Murray, D, Wash., $40,980
Rep. Charles Rangel, D, N.Y., $36,000
Sen. Harry Reid, D, Nev., $30,500
Sen. Byron Dorgan, D, N.D., $28,000{+1}
Tom Daschle, former senator, D S.D., $26,500
Rep. Dale Kildee, D, Mich., $19,000
Rep. Steny Hoyer, D, Md., $17,500
Sen. Tom Harkin,D, Iowa, $15,500
i never said that abramoff exclusively gave to the republicans...hence my comment about who is in power would get the $ more likely than not.
based on yr totals there, the reps have more than double the take than the dems.
ink:
based on yr totals there, the reps have more than double the take than the dems.
ink:
narlus said:i never said that abramoff exclusively gave to the republicans...hence my comment about who is in power would get the $ more likely than not.
based on yr totals there, the reps have more than double the take than the dems.
DaveW's link says exactly that, and it isn't true.
I do think it's important to note that the DOJ is going after this guy regardless of the political affiliations.
As for the totals, I'm 1000% certain that those numbers will change dramaticly before this is said and done. Rest assured there are many pairs of dirty hands on both sides of the aisle.
I love Mark Twain:
Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can.
- What Is Man?
...the smallest minds and the selfishest souls and the cowardliest hearts that God makes.
- Letter fragment, 1891
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
- Mark Twain, a Biography
Congressman is the trivialist distinction for a full grown man.
- Notebook #14, 11/1877 - 7/1878
All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.
- Mark Twain's Autobiography; also in Mark Twain in Eruption
The lightning there is peculiar; it is so convincing, that when it strikes a thing it doesn't leave enough of that thing behind for you to tell whether--Well, you'd think it was something valuable, and a Congressman had been there.
- Mark Twain's Speeches, "The Weather"
It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.
- Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar
It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no native criminal class except Congress.
- More Maxims of Mark, Johnson, 1927
Whiskey is carried into committee rooms in demijohns and carried out in demagogues.
- Notebook, 1868
...I never can think of Judas Iscariot without losing my temper. To my mind Judas Iscariot was nothing but a low, mean, premature, Congressman.
- "Foster's Case", New York Tribune, 3/10/1873
history lesson of this thread:Damn True said:
N8:
me:
i posted dave's link again to show the relative numbers of the take. it's clear that the reps took more than the dems. the reason? because the reps have MORE POWER in this current government, and hence they are MORE LIKELY to give the payer a bang for his buck.
Absolutely right. And of course the numbers are irrelevant - they're all just as dirty as each other, just some are in a better negotiating position. Free-market economics in action.narlus said:
I don't disagree. But I fail to see the relevance of who took more unless the "Well your senator is crookeder than mine" argument provides some sort of immoral moral victory. It seems akin to saying to a cop that he shouldn't give you a ticket for going 90mph when there was another guy going 100mph. Wrong is wrong regarless if they took $1 or $100knarlus said:
Everyone who condones torture in Iraq, the removal of civil liberties in the 'war on terror', WP in Falluja, basically most stuff GW represents, listen up! DT speaks the truth.Damn True said:
(Except there is no 'absolute' wrong or right. There is only what suits you right now)
Hooray someone figured it out!narlus said:
like I said in my original post.... ones dirty the others filthy, ie no one is clean! Just slightly different shades unclean.
So you are using the "Well your senator is crookeder than mine" argument?
Nope....nope of them are mine 
DaveW said:Nope....nope of them are mine
None? Then you didn't vote? You keep your mouth shut then mister!:mumble:
nah you elitist republican pricks won't let me vote. 
...and it'll stay that way ya lousy sheep buggerin kiwi!
Well that comment wasn't very "intelligently designed"
I have a beef farm....not sheep.
I have a beef farm....not sheep.
Cows are taller than sheep. Do you use a step ladder?DaveW said:Well that comment wasn't very "intelligently designed"
I have a beef farm....not sheep.
Ah now that would be telling wouldn't it.....no I think I'll leave you in suspense a bit longer.
Oh god if only....at least the naki has awesome surf!
either of you in dunedin? that was my favorite place in NZ (well, not counting natural beauty). the Empire ruled. 