[Old Man G Funk]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/02/AR2006030202054.html

 

[BurlyShirley]

I love how "force feeding" people on hunger strikes is enough torture to get you freaks all riled up.
I mean, "torture" is one thing but this, I just cant care about. Sorry.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

I love how "force feeding" people on hunger strikes is enough torture to get you freaks all riled up.
I mean, "torture" is one thing but this, I just cant care about. Sorry.

Torture is torture and it is wrong, for one.

For two, the fact that the administration is looking for loopholes in laws in order to allow it to continue torturing people is also disgusting to me.

I know you've said you have no problem with torture, but I think you would change your tune pretty quickly if the shoe were on the other foot. I hope it never is, for your sake.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Torture is torture and it is wrong, for one.

For two, the fact that the administration is looking for loopholes in laws in order to allow it to continue torturing people is also disgusting to me.

I know you've said you have no problem with torture, but I think you would change your tune pretty quickly if the shoe were on the other foot. I hope it never is, for your sake.

You mean if I were being tortured? Well yeah, I guess I would be against torture at that point
But in all seriousness, you're lumping in feeding a guy for his own good with bamboo shutes under the toenails. Not the same thing. Im not "for torture" in cases like this anyway, but come on dude. Force feeding a guy, sorry, it just doesnt strike me as being torture.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

You mean if I were being tortured? Well yeah, I guess I would be against torture at that point
But in all seriousness, you're lumping in feeding a guy for his own good with bamboo shutes under the toenails. Not the same thing. Im not "for torture" in cases like this anyway, but come on dude. Force feeding a guy, sorry, it just doesnt strike me as being torture.

Your personal incredulity doesn't make a very good argument either.

The reports are that they are inserting large tubes into the prisoner's nostrils, then forcing nutrients into the prisoner. The only way this would work is if they forced these tubes far enough in that they went through the nostrils and into the esophageal tube. Try sticking your middle finger in your nostril just past where your cartilege is. Try your pinky even. The whole time, the prisoner is strapped to a chair and unable to move. They leave the prisoner strapped to a chair for at least 2 hours (you try to sit in exactly the same position for 2 hours) while the prisoner urinates and defecates upon himself.

Yeah, I'm lumping it in with bamboo shoots, because torture is torture and all of it should be outlawed. Our government should NOT be looking for ways to circumvent that, especially since we try to act like we are morally superior to other countries. If we are so morally superior, we should act like it.

As for "feeding a guy for his own good," where do you get off making that declaration? Where did you get the idea that forcing this adult (who is fully able to make his own decisions) to do something he doesn't want to do, and which in no way affects the rights of others, is "for his own good?"

 

[BurlyShirley]

As for "feeding a guy for his own good," where do you get off making that declaration? Where did you get the idea that forcing this adult (who is fully able to make his own decisions) to do something he doesn't want to do, and which in no way affects the rights of others, is "for his own good?"

Societal norms and values make the laws. The laws say killing yourself is illegal, and hence, it's for his own good from both a legal and moral perspective of most of the country. Either way, if he went unconcious, we'd be legally forced to put him on a feeding tube to keep him alive, so the way I see it, its less of my tax dollars because I dont have to pay for the medical procedure.
I also dont think torturing people is a good idea, esp. in this case when we're trying to convince people of "freedom" but just imagine the alternative. The fallout if prisoners started DYING in our little auschwitz. Have you thought this through?
I think we SHOULD put them all on trial, and then either imprisoned or released based on court decisions, not because I care about them, but because the whole place is ust a liability now.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Societal norms and values make the laws. The laws say killing yourself is illegal, and hence, it's for his own good from both a legal and moral perspective of most of the country. Either way, if he went unconcious, we'd be legally forced to put him on a feeding tube to keep him alive, so the way I see it, its less of my tax dollars because I dont have to pay for the medical procedure.
I also dont think torturing people is a good idea, esp. in this case when we're trying to convince people of "freedom" but just imagine the alternative. The fallout if prisoners started DYING in our little auschwitz. Have you thought this through?
I think we SHOULD put them all on trial, and then either imprisoned or released based on court decisions, not because I care about them, but because the whole place is ust a liability now.

What law says suicide is illegal?

In the U.S. suicide has never been treated as a crime nor punished by property forfeiture or ignominious burial. (Some states listed it on the books as a felony but imposed no penalty.) Curiously, as of 1963, six states still considered attempted suicide a crime--North and South Dakota, Washington, New Jersey, Nevada, and Oklahoma.

From: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040326.html

Also, if he goes unconscious, we are NOT legally obliged to put him on a feeding tube if he makes clear that we are not to do that (Terry Schiavo anyone?)

I have thought this through. We could start by opening our process and making it transparent to the human rights organizations. We start treating the prisoners humanely and document it down to the smallest detail, and allow the human rights organizations to do the same. Also, we could charge these people and have fair trials for them, or we could release them. That would sure go a long way towards improving our standing in the world as well. You don't need to care about those individual people, but you SHOULD care about the process of law, because it's those same laws that keep you safe from being detained for no reason, tortured by police, etc.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Fair enough. I was always told that suicide was against the law.

Either way, I still dont see force feeding as the same as torture. It might suck, but well, he is a prisoner. He should be tried, I agree.

 

[Old Man G Funk]

Fair enough. I was always told that suicide was against the law.

Either way, I still dont see force feeding as the same as torture. It might suck, but well, he is a prisoner. He should be tried, I agree.

There are better ways we could provide nutrients if we were going to force feed this individual.

According to the Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/02/AR2006030201089.html

Starting last August, Bawazir refused to eat on his own and was fed through a small nasal tube that remained in place between meals.

Starting Jan. 11, Guantanamo guards strapped the detainee in a restraining chair for up to two hours at a time, and inserted and removed a large tube for each meal in a revised procedure that Bawazir says amounted to torture. He abandoned his hunger strike on Jan. 22 in order to end the alleged abuse.

It doesn't have to be painful, apparently.

 

[fluff]

Fair enough. I was always told that suicide was against the law.

It used to be and they had capital punishment as a deterrent for a while, but found it didn't seem to stop people.

 

[Mackie]

There are better ways we could provide nutrients if we were going to force feed this individual.

According to the Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/02/AR2006030201089.html

It doesn't have to be painful, apparently.

I've had a NG tube before. It's uncomfortable, but it doesn't have to hurt going down. Of course, if the person putting it in wanted to make it hurt going down, they could.

 

[Tenchiro]

Were they force feeding him pork?