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William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,938
686
I mean, am I out of line for thinking a nine fucking thousand dollar enduro bike *should* have good specs? Maybe better than "mid level shimano" stuff at that?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
20,842
19,943
Canaderp
I mean, am I out of line for thinking a nine fucking thousand dollar enduro bike *should* have good specs? Maybe better than "mid level shimano" stuff at that?
No, but it what it is.

There are some bikes for sale in the 5 to 6 grand range with GX components. Or SLX and Deore.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,167
9,818
AK
I can't believe how modern drivetrains can be raced in these conditions and never miss a freaking shift. Yeah, I should probably "upgrade" to 12 gears, electric transmissions and crap, but the "old" 11 1x setup is just so damn good at cutting through crap like this. Shifting perfection as far as I'm concerned. Also, this is a good way to clean your shimano brakes of the weeping pad contamination.

Typical pics from yesterday:

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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,167
9,818
AK
why is no one riding the lift?
Sun's going down, they removed all the built stuff except for one drop, end of the season, all the snowmachines are being placed right now, they'll be blowing snow any day. Season ended a few weekends ago.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,167
9,818
AK
20% increase in tortional stiffness is not a moot point. I have a section of very rooty trail at high speed that I take both a Zeb and Lyrik down regularly. The increased stiffness and control of the Zeb is totally noticeable. The only reason I keep running the Lyrik is the damper, but if I could have both in the Zeb, that would be my first choice.
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,944
1,295
SWE
From the short period I rode an inverted fork with the torsional rigidity of a wet noodle, high speed chunky sections were not the places where it was the most noticeable. It was much more noticeable on the low speed stuff, for example it could throw me out of balance on techy climb supposedly when the fork was twisting back...
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,353
888
coloRADo
Holy crap mtbers like to split hairs. Grab a tool, learn how to use it.
True. I loved my Marz Shiver. Everyone was like it's a wet noodle. But you know what? It was a lovely wet noodle, I somehow figured out how to use it. Plus, I'm sorry to admit I'm on SRAM brakes. Talk about spongy. (vs Shimano) But you know what? I'm gonna figure out how to use them. Whaaa....:D
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,811
5,723
UK
How long did it take you tools two to "learn" how to ride with the front wheel constantly fighting to face a different direction to your stem in mud, ruts, rocks and cambers?
The best you could do was learn to live with it, ignore this "feature" and sorta hope for the best. That thing made me even more of a rear wheel rider out of self preservation.
Just because you remember something from 20 years back being lovely doesn't mean it actually was.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,601
4,920
Australia
How long did it take you tools two to "learn" how to ride with the front wheel constantly fighting to face a different direction to your stem in mud, ruts, rocks and cambers?
The best you could do was learn to live with it, ignore this "feature" and sorta hope for the best. That thing made me even more of a rear wheel rider out of self preservation.
Just because you remember something from 20 years back being lovely doesn't mean it actually was.
I remember running a second hand Shiver for about 6 months. Was pretty epic through rock gardens getting it all twisted and stuff, but the biggest thing that made me get rid of it was not being able to jump with the bloody thing. Always felt too mushy for any pop and then heavy and unbalanced with the DHX5 rear. Shit it looked cool though.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,048
1,765
Northern California
I had the previous gen Dorado. Small bump sensitivity was as good as it gets and support was decent. I ran it at 180mm w/ 27.5 wheel. There was torsion flex if I put the wheel between my knees and yanked on the bars, but in practice I never had problem with it when riding. The single crown Shiver however...was kinda scary
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,811
5,723
UK
Like your magical life long lasting 7 speed drivetrains?

:busted:
10 speed Bruv
But yeaah. it is "magical" how a far smaller range cassette (11-36) with smaller jumps between sprockets and far more chainwrap across the whole cassette far outlasts and runs a shitload longer before slipping under load than a stupidly large range (10-51) 12 speed cassette. Especially when that stupid 10t barely has 4 fucking teeth in contact with the chain because a 12spd derailleur guide pulley is a million miles further away.

7 speed sprockets are 25% thicker. I can't even begin to imagine what "magical" properties those may behold!

 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,811
5,723
UK
I remember running a second hand Shiver for about 6 months. Was pretty epic through rock gardens getting it all twisted and stuff, but the biggest thing that made me get rid of it was not being able to jump with the bloody thing. Always felt too mushy for any pop and then heavy and unbalanced with the DHX5 rear. Shit it looked cool though.
Yeah the combination of Shiver and rock garden often made you feel like a hero/passenger when spat out the end still somehow upright. I remember trackside mates pissing themselves laughing at the ridiculous front wheel deflection when riding/sessioning DH tracks.
Never really had any issues jumping with them. Did you have decent weight springs in yours? Off the shelf mine was far too soft so swapped out to Firm springs. I was a helluva lot lighter back then too.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,601
4,920
Australia
Yeah the combination of Shiver and rock garden often made you feel like a hero/passenger when spat out the end still somehow upright. I remember trackside mates pissing themselves laughing at the ridiculous front wheel deflection when riding/sessioning DH tracks.
Never really had any issues jumping with them. Did you have decent weight springs in yours? Off the shelf mine was far too soft so swapped out to Firm springs. I was a helluva lot lighter back then too.
I got it second hand and ran whatever spring it had. I think they'd already been discontinued at that point so parts were a bitch to find. Possibly could have gotten it sorted but had the opportunity to swap to a Boxxer Team and immediately felt like less of a passenger so stuck with that. I was a weedy bugger back then, a bigger/strong/more Bullcrew rider probably wouldn't have had the issues chucking that fork around.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
a bigger/strong/more Bullcrew rider probably wouldn't have had the issues chucking that fork around.
no, those things sucked dick, anyone with a brain had a problem with them

I actually think I'm the only person here who never owned one. I rode a buddy's bike with one and handed it back half run. Those things were pieces of shit that relied on titties in an ad to sell.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,012
Seattle
had the opportunity to swap to a Boxxer Team and immediately felt like less of a passenger so stuck with that
I actually think I'm the only person here who never owned one. I rode a buddy's bike with one and handed it back half run.
Never rode a Shiver, but if a 32mm chassis Boxxer felt like a dramatic improvement I can't even imagine. :rofl:

I had pretty much the exact experience that 'woo described on the Shiver with a Boxxer World Cup. Granted my buddy was trying to sell it to me so maybe he agreed but he really fucked up in offering a test ride first.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Never rode a Shiver, but if a 32mm chassis Boxxer felt like a dramatic improvement I can't even imagine. :rofl:

I had pretty much the exact experience that 'woo described on the Shiver with a Boxxer World Cup. Granted my buddy was trying to sell it to me so maybe he agreed but he really fucked up in offering a test ride first.
one of the funniest things I used to enjoy doing was getting a shiver rider on my bike which had a white brothers dh3 on it. Most couldn't believe there was a USD for that was 10 times laterally stiffer. Marketing works. Unfortunately.
 
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6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
16,170
13,445
one of the funniest things I used to enjoy doing was getting a shiver rider on my bike which had a white brothers dh2 on it. Most couldn't believe there was a USD for that was 10 times laterally stiffer. Marketing works. Unfortunately.
20x heavier? :D
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
20x heavier? :D
uh, those things were a solid pound lighter than a shiver

because they were designed by a suspension person, not a brocal dickbag who focused more on titty posters than their product


oh fuck me....19 god damn years ago

 
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vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
492
595
yeast van
i had a couple WB inverted forks bitd. a shame they never got much traction, as they were (as you mention) both lighter & a good bit stiffer than the shiver, had pretty sophisticated dampers, and were quite reliable. superior in every way, really. but they didn't have marzocchi girls.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,012
Seattle
one of the funniest things I used to enjoy doing was getting a shiver rider on my bike which had a white brothers dh3 on it. Most couldn't believe there was a USD for that was 10 times laterally stiffer. Marketing works. Unfortunately.
I wonder how much those things set back the reputation of inverted forks in the MTB world.

I've owned both the prior-gen and current Dorado and my take's pretty similar to @djjohnr 's. They're appreciably less stiff torsionally than pretty much everything modern that you'd plausibly compare them against (by a bunch) but in practice that's fine, they're very stiff fore-aft, and the small bump sensitivity and traction are really damn good.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I wonder how much those things set back the reputation of inverted forks in the MTB world.

I've owned both the prior-gen and current Dorado and my take's pretty similar to @djjohnr 's. They're appreciably less stiff torsionally than pretty much everything modern that you'd plausibly compare them against (by a bunch) but in practice that's fine, they're very stiff fore-aft, and the small bump sensitivity and traction are really damn good.
I should also include that the same applied to dorado users at the time. Honestly, at the time, nothing touched those WB forks. I didn't even realize it until riding the others. The white brothers had like 9ft of bushing overlap.What's crazy is that groove fork they released just as they were folding up was even stiffer. That weirdo curbhucker who sued karpiel came out to northstar one year with one. That thing was insanely good.
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,799
4,767
Champery, Switzerland
Even with all the oil dripping out of this thing it still feels pretty plush.
There’s another DH3 in town on a Giant ATX One DH. It was my brother’s old bike around 2001-2002.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,167
9,818
AK
i had a couple WB inverted forks bitd. a shame they never got much traction, as they were (as you mention) both lighter & a good bit stiffer than the shiver, had pretty sophisticated dampers, and were quite reliable. superior in every way, really. but they didn't have marzocchi girls.
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