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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,267
9,905
AK
Looks like the same secondary piston/bottoming cup as the ext stuff





definitely looks lighter than the bug sprayers
Which will be rendered significantly less effective if using their travel spacer arrangement in a configuration other than "no spacers"?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Which will be rendered significantly less effective if using their travel spacer arrangement in a configuration other than "no spacers"?
there's an aftermarket suspension company that makes moto stuff that does the same thing with their shocks (bottoming cup, not travel spacers). I don't really understand using that AND a big bottoming bumper on the shaft




The name elastomer is too dated. You need to find something more appealing.
Maybe Kidwoopren? Rideitokon? Kidwoosan?
FUKITA technology

Fuck you kidwoo. In the ass


Some here would buy on principle alone (which as this thread demonstrates, principle is the only minimum threshold to bring a product to market)
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
573
366
Thing cup and bumpstop do different things. Cup adds damping at the end of the shock stroke and the bump stop adds spring force.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Thing cup and bumpstop do different things. Cup adds damping at the end of the shock stroke and the bump stop adds spring force.
obviously but the end result is the same....slow down/stop the shaft

Seems overly redundant. I'm not saying don't have a bumper, just maybe not the same size one with thing cup. If the hydraulic damping is working, you shouldn't need as much of a bigass cone

assuming of course a logical leverage curve exists on the bike. Had to add that last bit because I remembered what industry we're talking about here
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
573
366
obviously but the end result is the same....slow down/stop the shaft

Seems overly redundant. I'm not saying don't have a bumper, just maybe not the same size one with thing cup. If the hydraulic damping is working, you shouldn't need as much of a bigass cone
imo with the hbo I’d almost want a bigger one, obviously a softer one but longer to make the entrance to the end stroke less abrupt. It’s kind of weird trying to tune coil shocked mountain bikes after coming from cars because there’s like zero options for Different bump stops in mtb sizes where I could pick between multiple rates, lengths, progressive, or linear bump stops for cars.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
imo with the hbo I’d almost want a bigger one, obviously a softer one but longer to make the entrance to the end stroke less abrupt. It’s kind of weird trying to tune coil shocked mountain bikes after coming from cars because there’s like zero options for Different bump stops in mtb sizes where I could pick between multiple rates, lengths, progressive, or linear bump stops for cars.
which to push's credit, they've done for a while now....

on a decently progressive bike I just don't see the need. A good damper set up well should be handling bringing the shaft velocity down by then. I'd rather have the well tuned bottom out damper do most of the work. Can't tell from that cartoon so much but the moto ones (mx-tech), and the ext taper the cone quite a bit, making it position sensitive in that last little bit of travel. Which is really the same thing as what a bottoming cone does.

depends highly on the bike IMO. But yeah, various bumpers available should be a little more common, agreed
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,595
11,724
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Hmmmm….now I am curious as to why no one has tried (or I haven’t heard of) using a larger shock mount hardware interface, and shoving a little elastomer ‘FUKITA’ bumper around the mounting spacer (like cars and trucks have)….too simple?
Anyone remember the hubs that featured this back in the late 80’s early 90’s?
“1/4 inch of bump absorption!”
(I’m sure it was truly awful)
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Hmmmm….now I am curious as to why no one has tried (or I haven’t heard of) using a larger shock mount hardware interface, and shoving a little elastomer ‘FUKITA’ bumper around the mounting spacer (like cars and trucks have)….too simple?
Anyone remember the hubs that featured this back in the late 80’s early 90’s?
“1/4 inch of bump absorption!”
(I’m sure it was truly awful)
ahem.....post 4123

At least doing it in the shock bushings shouldn't (in theory) negatively effect anything with the frame. As long as the frame isn't using the shock for structural support.

IMO most of the high frequency shit that makes it to your body comes from everything else in the bike. Putting it solely in the suspension is too limiting. Since a fork is part of the basic structure that holds one half of the contact spots, doing in the chassis would make sense...just not like the buttercup stuff is doing.


That stem you just posted is a good example. Has nothing to do with the suspension. That kind of stuff is pretty common for motorcycles but that also has engine vibrations as part of what they're trying to address. I have something kinda sorta similar on some footpegs and handlebar clamps ('stem' equivalent for nonmoto peeps) and they kinda sorta maybe do a little something. Those setups do what the buttercups don't.....address high frequency vibrations in multiple axes.

another mtb equivalent
 
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Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,758
7,986
fwiw I put on said Rev grips

and don't really notice any difference

they were a HUGE pain in the ass to install, for the record. fiddly little rubber pieces
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,267
9,905
AK
ahem.....post 4123

At least doing it in the shock bushings shouldn't (in theory) negatively effect anything with the frame. As long as the frame isn't using the shock for structural support.

IMO most of the high frequency shit that makes it to your body comes from everything else in the bike. Putting it solely in the suspension is too limiting. Since a fork is part of the basic structure that holds one half of the contact spots, doing in the chassis would make sense...just not like the buttercup stuff is doing.


That stem you just posted is a good example. Has nothing to do with the suspension. That kind of stuff is pretty common for motorcycles but that also has engine vibrations as part of what they're trying to address. I have something kinda sorta similar on some footpegs and handlebar clamps ('stem' equivalent for nonmoto peeps) and they kinda sorta maybe do a little something. Those setups do what the buttercups don't.....address high frequency vibrations in multiple axes.

another mtb equivalent
Basically engine mounts and chassis shit, like why a BMW is so much smoother than a cheap hyundai, because the engine mounts and such isolate the engine/drivetrain more.
 
Feb 21, 2020
865
1,221
SoCo Western Slope
imo with the hbo I’d almost want a bigger one, obviously a softer one but longer to make the entrance to the end stroke less abrupt. It’s kind of weird trying to tune coil shocked mountain bikes after coming from cars because there’s like zero options for Different bump stops in mtb sizes where I could pick between multiple rates, lengths, progressive, or linear bump stops for cars.

and:

avy_bump.jpg


Nice to see that PUSH bit Craig's style with the "bumper in a cup" system.

I'm with Woo in regards to not needing a big bumper system if you have a well designed HBO.
Like why EXT has a tiny 5mm bumper with their HBO shocks.

Also, pretty much a cop out to be able to shorten the shock stroke and not change the HBO setup. When you go from a 65mm stroke to 60mm with the new PUSH shock, the HBO is going to be way less effective. Maybe that's why the big bumper. :thumb:
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,267
9,905
AK
Also too, having enough support where the suspension ramps up through the travel DUE TO PROGRESSIVE LEVERAGE off of big drops and jumps feels great and gives a lot more control. On my RFX we used the giant-bumper shit to deal with the mild-progression of that frame that for sure kept it from bottoming off the same drops...but it feels like shit in the process going through the travel and using this at the end.

These bikes should have enough progression that you don't need this kind of shit, unless you are red-bull dropping or something and IME, the result kinda feels like shit when they don't have enough progression.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
573
366
That’s the bump stop tuning. If you actually get your bump stops right you can have a shit leverage curve and have the transition into the stops be unnoticeable. The off road truck guys are so crazy about their bump stops that they don’t even run them coaxially so they get even more tuning options.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
That’s the bump stop tuning. If you actually get your bump stops right you can have a shit leverage curve and have the transition into the stops be unnoticeable. The off road truck guys are so crazy about their bump stops that they don’t even run them coaxially so they get even more tuning options.
that's for a pretty flat leverage/wheel rate though

seems way more significant in that kind of system
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,394
904
coloRADo
fwiw I put on said Rev grips

and don't really notice any difference

they were a HUGE pain in the ass to install, for the record. fiddly little rubber pieces
Yeah, I had similar thoughts. They just didn't work out for me.

My go to grip is the Ergon GA3. My gimpy ass hands/wrists like the little wing. It takes just enough stress off.

Every time I go back to normal grips, I crash and need to go back to the GA3's. Or worst. But luckily that hasn't happened in a while. Knock on wood.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,922
5,827
UK
fwiw I put on said Rev grips

and don't really notice any difference

they were a HUGE pain in the ass to install, for the record. fiddly little rubber pieces
How the fuck could you NOT notice your grips moving around inside your hands?

Back when they were first released. We had a, demo set. Less than a minute after getting on a bike with them fitted (properly) they exploded spewing those stupid little fiddly bits everywhere just from wrenching on them with my bare hands while bunny hopping.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,758
7,986
I can tell they move a little bit. But functionally I don’t notice more or less arm pump for them.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,831
20,692
Sleazattle
Yeah, I had similar thoughts. They just didn't work out for me.

My go to grip is the Ergon GA3. My gimpy ass hands/wrists like the little wing. It takes just enough stress off.

Every time I go back to normal grips, I crash and need to go back to the GA3's. Or worst. But luckily that hasn't happened in a while. Knock on wood.

I have to run GA3s because I have no cartilage left in my thumbs.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
574
714
The newest Ohlins TTX22m.2 shocks use a cup to contain the bottom out bumper, and they even gave me the graph for the progression this bumper+cup adds to the stroke. This made me go from a progressive 450-550lbs spring to a linear 480lbs and get a better feel through the entire stroke. I love it when companies don't fuck around and give you the technical info that you're asking for.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,024
20,179
Canaderp
How the fuck could you NOT notice your grips moving around inside your hands?

Back when they were first released. We had a, demo set. Less than a minute after getting on a bike with them fitted (properly) they exploded spewing those stupid little fiddly bits everywhere just from wrenching on them with my bare hands while bunny hopping.
Sounds like user installation error.
 
Feb 21, 2020
865
1,221
SoCo Western Slope
The newest Ohlins TTX22m.2 shocks use a cup to contain the bottom out bumper, and they even gave me the graph for the progression this bumper+cup adds to the stroke. This made me go from a progressive 450-550lbs spring to a linear 480lbs and get a better feel through the entire stroke. I love it when companies don't fuck around and give you the technical info that you're asking for.
Yeah, it's a smart move.

Avalanche even takes it a step farther and offers different height and shape bumpers to use with their cup system. Lots of tuning options.

Fox should look into this for their Float X bumper, it would help with bottom out plate migration. The bumper spreads out so much on big impacts the spacer goes through the middle of it and ends up on the wrong side. :D

 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I asked for that 1 second after the 11.6 came out. It's my 2008 MX Tune Vanilla in a ready-to-buy package.
You and everybody else. Love those things when setup well but they weigh almost as much as two of another shock.

It's been so long that now the price of it is almost what the 11.6 was when they released it :rofl:
 
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