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This is what's right with The Industry®

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
827
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
You and everybody else. Love those things when setup well but they weigh almost as much as two of another shock.

It's been so long that now the price of it is almost what the 11.6 was when they released it :rofl:
And there's a bunch of other good coil shocks on the market now, including a cheap one from Rockshox. This would have sold much better 8 years ago.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,982
9,642
AK
I think there's something that Push intrinsically misses with their tuning, this seems to be backed up in their analysis of shaft velocity speeds and claiming that they don't ever see above x amount. There's a long shit filled thread on this on mtbr, but it seems to be that they ignore or claim above a certain speed doesn't happen, when there appears to be ample evidence it does. This would 100% explain the spiking and harshness that I've felt with them IMO. Darren always likes to say that I'm just bagging on the HC97 and they've had "thousands of other happy customers", but he claimed vehemently that it wasn't a poppet valve...and then went on to 100% describe it's configuration as a poppet valve. I've had other push tuned products too, forks and rear shocks. It was the same thing with both. Never tried the Push MX tune...but I had the Avalanche shock that they licensed the design from. Supposedly they came out with the 11.6 to move away from this, but I think it was because they were "stuck" to existing shock architecture and unless they were making their own shock completely, like Avalanche was, it didn't really make sense to continue down that road.

But all of this is why I'm a lot more interested in Vorsprung's coil shock. Everything that Steve has said over the years "makes sense". Vs. Push and some absolutely bizarre stuff. I remember years back when they were claiming that the lower end Fox open bath vanilla R dampers weren't a shimmed setup, when by the diagrams and parts they clearly were. It wasn't a huge point, but Darren eventually conceded after being shown...it's just these 100% wrong things where they've solidified rather than corrected themselves. The poppet valve HC97 was a great example. Really makes me question if they know what they are doing...or the marketing guy is just making stuff up and not communicating from the "engineering" guy. Dunno...
 
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mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,102
3,818
sw ontario canada
I think there's something that Push intrinsically misses with their tuning, this seems to be backed up in their analysis of shaft velocity speeds and claiming that they don't ever see above x amount. There's a long shit filled thread on this on mtbr, but it seems to be that they ignore or claim above a certain speed doesn't happen, when there appears to be ample evidence it does. This would 100% explain the spiking and harshness that I've felt with them IMO. Darren always likes to say that I'm just bagging on the HC97 and they've had "thousands of other happy customers", but he claimed vehemently that it wasn't a poppet valve...and then went on to 100% describe it's configuration as a poppet valve. I've had other push tuned products too, forks and rear shocks. It was the same thing with both. Never tried the Push MX tune...but I had the Avalanche shock that they licensed the design from. Supposedly they came out with the 11.6 to move away from this, but I think it was because they were "stuck" to existing shock architecture and unless they were making their own shock completely, like Avalanche was, it didn't really make sense to continue down that road.

But all of this is why I'm a lot more interested in Vorsprung's coil shock. Everything that Steve has said over the years "makes sense". Vs. Push and some absolutely bizarre stuff. I remember years back when they were claiming that the lower end Fox open bath vanilla R dampers weren't a shimmed setup, when by the diagrams and parts they clearly were. It wasn't a huge point, but Darren eventually conceded after being shown...it's just these 100% wrong things where they've solidified rather than corrected themselves. The poppet valve HC97 was a great example. Really makes me question if they know what they are doing...or the marketing guy is just making stuff up and not communicating from the "engineering" guy. Dunno...

I was also part of that empty-beer cluster-fuck.
I still bust his balls over the poppet-valve fiasco and remind him I'm still waiting for his answer that I know will never come cause then he has to admit he fucked up - again.
Also now half expecting him to pop in here and do a little gas lighting.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,386
819
And then they make this abomination, which surely isn't "right":


But it's cool they've expanded so much and make so many different products. Them and Wolftooth, nice to see them built a business off of chainrings and shit and expanded into so many markets.
What's the issue with the OneUp Switch system? I have it on a couple of bikes and I like it quite a lot.

I agree the the cost for the 1st chainring is higher, but replacement cost is lower. I also find it's a good solution to have a SRAM 12sp tooth profile on an XT crankset.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,638
5,556
UK
What's the issue with the OneUp Switch system?
for me it's not so much "what's the issue?" as where's the value in it over the 104 BCD 4 bolt system we had for years but was universally dumped for direct mount.
$3 104 NW rings work just fine with 12sp SRAM chains:
Yeah. Maybe it might take 5 minutes longer to swap a chainring, but how often are you swapping rings? maybe once or twice a year? if that 5mins is worth £44 to you each time you need a new chainring. Fair enough.
Or if you need 28T and want all the good stuff 4 bolt cranks had back
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,982
9,642
AK
What's the issue with the OneUp Switch system? I have it on a couple of bikes and I like it quite a lot.

I agree the the cost for the 1st chainring is higher, but replacement cost is lower. I also find it's a good solution to have a SRAM 12sp tooth profile on an XT crankset.
No issue at all. Just that damn chain RING is not round.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,386
819
@Gary : Fair enough, I can't argue on this. I agree it doesn't make sense to pay that much if the goal is to save 5 minutes, although avoiding having to break loose a SRAM crank torqued to 56000 N-m with threadlocker has a certain appeal.
I was comparing the OneUp Switch to other machined direct mount option like NSB and I am not too aware of cheap chinese stuff you can find on Aliexpress. Yes, I do ride a 28t on my 29" hardtail with a 10/42 cassette. I ride a 30t on a 10/50 cassette, but I consider switching to 28t with these cassettes too. I rarely use the smaller cogs and I like having as much ground clearance as possible.

@Jm_ : Ah, I see now. I confirm the chainrings on my bikes are round. :)
 
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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,982
9,642
AK
And yeah, I have a 104 setup on my Canfield because it has some old-school RF metal cranks. Never ever have I thought "it'd be awesome to switch chainrings (and consequently, chains) all the time".
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,638
5,556
UK
I am not too aware of cheap chinese stuff you can find on Aliexpress.
Don't get me wrong. Not everything cheap on AliX is great but I've been using those super cheap chainrings I linked to for years now and they last as least as well if not longer than any high end alu NW chainring I'm aware of.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,982
9,642
AK
Don't get me wrong. Not everything cheap on AliX is great but I've been using those super cheap chainrings I linked to for years now and they last as least as well if not longer than any high end alu NW chainring I'm aware of.
I ordered two x-sync chainrings from worldwide cyclery or some shit a few weeks ago. They lost them enroute. I got auto-refunded.

So fuck that, I ordered some of those cheap ass ebay ones instead.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
548
357
If only he didnt completely butcher the geo on the in the opening. Its certainly not a 69* STA, its like 79-80 depending on bike size and its a 62* HTA.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,413
20,202
Sleazattle
If only he didnt completely butcher the geo on the in the opening. Its certainly not a 69* STA, its like 79-80 depending on bike size and its a 62* HTA.
Do I work with you?

These are the comments I get whenever I have to present something at work.
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
548
357
I’ll watch all of once I get to my tv. I hate watching video on the small screen. The straight faced glaring error in the opener threw me. I figured being fortnine they were going to replace the video with the errors fixed in a day like they did with the phone mount test.
 

DaveW

Space Monkey
Jul 2, 2001
11,198
2,723
The bunker at parliament
A friend of mine bought those years ago when they came out. The big diameter just seemed like armpump in the making.
Conversely for me, skinny lil standard size grips are a recipe for cramp, the larger diameter grips work better for my hands and forearms.
XL PNW Loam grips are the best I've tried so far for my hands.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,324
871
coloRADo
Do I work with you?

These are the comments I get whenever I have to present something at work.
LMAO Totally work BS. it's like people think work is about criticizing rather than creating. But did they actually DO ANYTHING? Not really. Meh...and next time that same guy asks me for help Imma gonna be like "I don't know" ask someone else. (but I totally know the answer :)

end work rant.

'can't say i've been "missing" it Bob' - Office Space

:D
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,102
3,818
sw ontario canada
Conversely for me, skinny lil standard size grips are a recipe for cramp, the larger diameter grips work better for my hands and forearms.
XL PNW Loam grips are the best I've tried so far for my hands.
Ya, I get along with better with a grip with a bit of heft. When everybody was raving about the ODI Ruffian, I was all about the Rogue. I've been quite happy with the Ergon GE1's which are pretty close to the Rogue being I think a mm smaller.
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,666
500
Sea to Sky BC
(467) The Devinci Chainsaw is the Wrong Mountain Bike - 2023 Review - YouTube

Whether you agree with the content or not, I didn't hear the guy use stupid words like "stoked, gnar, composed, bro, sick...etc"

It was straight forward and entertaining. I wish we'd see more reviews like this.
Zero interest in that bike, but Dave's a long time friend and that was an excellent review. Entertaining, informative, interesting tangents, raised the issues in a very respectful and contextually based manner, just really well done all around and so much better than most reviews we see.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,682
13,026
Cackalacka du Nord
Zero interest in that bike, but Dave's a long time friend and that was an excellent review. Entertaining, informative, interesting tangents, raised the issues in a very respectful and contextually based manner, just really well done all around and so much better than most reviews we see.
agreed 100%. refreshing to see it.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,017
1,708
Northern California
I'm a fan of the Oury slip-on grips specifically because they are not thinner rubber over a larger diameter lock-on grip.
Those Fabric grips use an ovalized core, so the rubber is thicker in the hot spots while the grip keeps a circular profile. It's not quite an Oury slip-on, but it's the closest lock-on that I've found.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,982
9,642
AK
I feel that since carbon bars, sliding slip on grips isnt really a thing anymore.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,324
871
coloRADo
Lock on grips. Unless you wire. And I live in a dry climate. This means that I've had grips rotate on me just during a quick afternoon rain shower that were the old school non-lock/wire grips.

I found the spongey thingys made me grip tighter. Cuz it really didn't feel right, until I gripped that hard. Then my gimpy hands got tired way too early in a descent. So no sponges for me.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
827
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
agreed 100%. refreshing to see it.
I love most of Fortnine's videos. This is the second MTB content they've done recently. Hopefully more to come.

P.S. Without having ridden that bike or any other modern high pivot, his ride impressions exactly match what I'd expect it to feel like. The part with him trying to manual in a parking lot and coming off a drop with the nose coming down early: That's exactly what I'd expect to happen if I rode one.
 

vivisectxi

Monkey
Jan 14, 2021
473
577
yeast van
^fun review / format. i like these guys. to be fair to the bike, he's criticizing a long / slack 170mm fast & smashy HP bike for not being great on tight / relatively slow trails. he should have been smashing cypress dh laps, not fromme jank. *shrug*
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,413
20,202
Sleazattle
^fun review / format. i like these guys. to be fair to the bike, he's criticizing a long / slack 170mm fast & smashy HP bike for not being great on tight / relatively slow trails. he should have been smashing cypress dh laps, not fromme jank. *shrug*

I believe his point is that it is supposed to be an easily accessible bike for noobs (financially and skills), where this is a bike optimized for the park resort life, not fucking around in the woods behind your house.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I believe his point is that it is supposed to be an easily accessible bike for noobs (financially and skills), where this is a bike optimized for the park resort life, not fucking around in the woods behind your house.
certainly not those woods behind those houses

some of the shittiest dumbest trail routing on the planet

designed to make 70 degree head angle, 15 inch BB norcos from 1863 look extreme in vhs videos

......literally

There are so few places that mimic fromme (thankfully) that I do wish he'd at least filmed somewhere, anywhere else. It ain't just bike parks that let you cruise along at 15-20mph for more than 2 seconds.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,413
20,202
Sleazattle
certainly not those woods behind those houses

some of the shittiest dumbest trail routing on the planet

designed to make 70 degree head angle, 15 inch BB norcos from 1863 look extreme in vhs videos

......literally

There are so few places that mimic fromme (thankfully) that I do wish he'd at least filmed somewhere, anywhere else. It ain't just bike parks that let you cruise along at 15-20mph for more than 2 seconds.
I can only speak for what I see but here it is rare to see kids on trails with continuous steep descents, except for the bike park kids with full TLD kits and wireless shifting. They are riding the rolling suburban parks or unsanctioned jumps/stunts behind industrial parks.