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This is what's right with The Industry®

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
560
363
You know what was right in the industry? When all those smart people from the industry posted here regularly.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,151
3,874
sw ontario canada
You know what was right in the industry? When all those smart people from the industry posted here regularly.

Kinda mixed. There was quite a bit of cool knowledge to be assimilated, but sometimes teh ego / bs / marketing wank was a bit much to wade though. Often it was hard to tell which was which and were one ended and the other began.

meh :shakefist:
 

Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
560
363
Kinda mixed. There was quite a bit of cool knowledge to be assimilated, but sometimes teh ego / bs / marketing wank was a bit much to wade though. Often it was hard to tell which was which and were one ended and the other began.

meh :shakefist:
Must have been different when you were there. Looking at old post where DW chimed in he looked positive and correct and not completely full of himself. I think that last part may have changed on his part.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
Must have been different when you were there. Looking at old post where DW chimed in he looked positive and correct and not completely full of himself. I think that last part may have changed on his part.
Yes. About 20 years ago, when DW was around under the handle obiwan-f1-moto (or something like this...) and the original Evil was starting, it was genuinely refreshing to see a competent engineer sorting out chainguide issues and adressing various problems related to under-engineering in the industry. He sort of demonstrated that developing standards was needed, so that files and angle-grinders would eventually be unnecessary to install a new part on your bike. He was very active and helpful in the forums.

One could argue that a marketing effort was already going on at that time on RM, with Seth Lolli, A13x, George Ryan, etc. posting here and promoting the Evil stuff, but the stuff was that much better than anything else, nobody felt "products" were being force-fed on RM. It felt much more like pure stoke than intended marketing and I am pretty sure it was. It was such a cool period. The golden age of RM, and DW was a good part of it
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Yes. About 20 years ago, when DW was around under the handle obiwan-f1-moto (or something like this...) and the original Evil was starting, it was genuinely refreshing to see a competent engineer sorting out chainguide issues and adressing various problems related to under-engineering in the industry. He sort of demonstrated that developing standards was needed, so that files and angle-grinders would eventually be unnecessary to install a new part on your bike. He was very active and helpful in the forums.

One could argue that a marketing effort was already going on at that time on RM, with Seth Lolli, A13x, George Ryan, etc. posting here and promoting the Evil stuff, but the stuff was that much better than anything else, nobody felt "products" were being force-fed on RM. It felt much more like pure stoke than intended marketing and I am pretty sure it was. It was such a cool period. The golden age of RM, and DW was a good part of it
remember zedro? Mech Engineering college kid at the time who built his own dh bike for a senior project?
He pointed something out to dw, who then publicly offered him a job to change the subject and then never answered his messages.

When juan and his dad started gamut with the only goal being light chainguides that still worked, DW tore into them here so fucking condescendingly and just started attacking them when all someone said was "they're lighter than evil"

He would jump up and down swearing that no one but nathan rennie had ever broken an IH SGS rear end.....basically telling a few of us that what we saw with our own eyes wasn't happening.

That's not discussion, that's a one way street to maintain a brand image.

I don't know man. That shit was always pretty painfully transparent from what I saw but I never really paid attention to the first early days. And the fanboi swarming was a little pathetic to be honest.

If you want to advertise buy an ad. If you want to discuss things that's what forums are for. To me, they are and have always been a way to circumvent the marketing nonsense, and figure out what really works and what doesn't. That's the entire point of a place for a community to discuss things, not yet another venue for the industry folks to spew nonsense that also just happens to put money in their pocket. Especially these days, if I want to hear a marketing spiel, I can go to someone's webpage.
 
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Leafy

Monkey
Sep 13, 2019
560
363
I guess the good parts from the old days are what shows up when you’re researching stuff on Google and not the shit show threads.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
remember zedro? Mech Engineering college kid at the time who built his own dh bike for a senior project?
He pointed something out to dw, who then publicly offered him a job to change the subject and then never answered his messages.

When juan and his dad started gamut with the only goal being light chainguides that still worked, DW tore into them here so fucking condescendingly and just started attacking them when all someone said was "they're lighter than evil"

He would jump up and down swearing that no one but nathan rennie had ever broken an IH SGS rear end.....basically telling a few of us that what we saw with our own eyes wasn't happening.

That's not discussion, that's a one way street to maintain a brand image.

I don't know man. That shit was always pretty painfully transparent from what I saw but I never really paid attention to the first early days. And the fanboi swarming was a little pathetic to be honest.

If you want to advertise buy an ad. If you want to discuss things that's what forums are for. To me, they are and have always been a way to circumvent the marketing nonsense, and figure out what really works and what doesn't. That's the entire point of a place for a community to discuss things, not yet another venue for the industry folks to spew nonsense that also just happens to put money in their pocket. Especially these days, if I want to hear a marketing spiel, I can go to someone's webpage.
Yeah, probably most of use were a bit naive in those days. I probably have forgotten some of the bad and only remember the good. I remember I viewed dw's contribution to mtb as refreshing and it was super cool to have him hang around.

That being said, I remember very well thinking (from the start) that his thread on "Old and obscure mountain bikes" was certainly a blatant use of online forums to gather exhaustive info on all prior art related to full-susp bike designs...to help him out write patents.
https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/pictures-of-old-and-obscure-suspension-bikes.126808/

It turned out to be one of the best threads on RM. It was really clever from him to use RM for free for this due diligence, but at the same time it has been somewhat of a turning point to see him use the community like that for his commercial interest.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,782
5,694
UK
He would jump up and down swearing that no one but nathan rennie had ever broken an IH SGS rear end.....basically telling a few of us that what we saw with our own eyes wasn't happening.
Seems he was always like that.
Back when the Evel chain guide was new this whole place had a massive hardon for them. Took a while longer for them to be available to us but when they were I remember DW wouldn't believe I smashed one of his "indestrudctable" plastic bash guards in two (UK dist replaced the broken bash no worries). and then when I gave him feedback on how the guides were prone to filling up with mud between the bash and chainring after a few muddy runs and could cause the chain to ride over the top of chainrings leaving you with no drive or a jammed chain he point blank refused to accept this scenario was even possible. it was happening all the time because the specified bash guards were massively bigger diameter than the ring sizes he was selling them to be used with and once mud started collecting between the ring and bash was litterally nowhere for it to go. Downsizing the guides helped alittle but a smaller bashguard like Gamut with cutouts was massively superior at shedding mud. I ran bastardised guides after that and always wondered if DW had ever actually ridden in mud.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,528
7,855
Yeah, those OG Evil guards did have stupidly thick and oversized plastic plates, eh
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Those chainguides were a massive improvement over what was available at the time. Credit where due, those things got other people to get off their asses and start building better ones as well. And plastic slides where aluminum sticks on rocks

Not perfect by any means. But definitely an important stepping stone towards better guides.


But yeah....too much of a one way street when it came to 'taking part in the community'. A discussion would have involved fielding ways to improve things. Instead we got "iT wOrKs fInE fOr sAm hIlL sO wHaTs yOuR pRoBlEm??'


I feel so warm and fuzzy finally knowing I wasn't the only one getting fed up with that shit. The fanboi swarming here used to be insane :rofl:

aw, group hug, guys. I think YOU'RE what's right with the industry. Because you're not part of the industry.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
7,782
5,694
UK
And plastic slides where aluminum sticks on rocks
just as well when your bashring is 8" in diameter and everyone was drilling their 8" travel DH frames for a 12" BB :doh:

Around that time I started running a 36t chainring and using more open alu bashrings of exactly the diameter of my chain around said ring so if it took a hit the chain, chainring and bashguard all took it together. those slid not bad TBF

Many of the current chainguides I see are back to being abslolute shit again BTW. with two of the longest running chainguide companies efforts being particularly shit. It really shouldn't be that difficult to design something functional and fairly durable
 
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Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,528
7,855
The fanboi swarming here used to be insane :rofl:
I met Weagle once. he was quiet and seemed nice enough.

Alex and Seth were the typical "too cool for school" types when I met them at the Fenway dirt jumps, though. or maybe I just wasn't cool enough. :D
 

jrewing

Monkey
Aug 22, 2010
274
182
Maydena Oz
I met Weagle once. he was quiet and seemed nice enough.

Alex and Seth were the typical "too cool for school" types when I met them at the Fenway dirt jumps, though. or maybe I just wasn't cool enough. :D
Why i like riding Solo. Never as part of a group.
Just me and my Lickspittle camera guy.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,820
5,727
Profile finally do a Titanium free hub for the elite hubs, fatties and bike passengers rejoice!
 

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,000
716
Profile finally do a Titanium free hub for the elite hubs, fatties and bike passengers rejoice!
Out of curiosity, which country are Profile components manufactured?

Nevermind! Still Made in the USA! That's awesome
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
The most obnoxious hub ever.

I currently have a Profile Elite BMX hub on my Standard 125R (cromo) and it's pretty loud. I previously had that hub on my Intense Podium XLT (hydroformed alu) and it was simply ridiculous how loud it was on that frame.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,525
869
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
The most obnoxious hub ever.

I currently have a Profile Elite BMX hub on my Standard 125R (cromo) and it's pretty loud. I previously had that hub on my Intense Podium XLT (hydroformed alu) and it was simply ridiculous how loud it was on that frame.
Remember when loud hubs were such a fad? At the time I felt like I was the only one who wanted a quiet, low drag hub. It was like the entire world had gone insane while I was out for a ride. Glad you all came back to your senses.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,470
11,631
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Remember when loud hubs were such a fad? At the time I felt like I was the only one who wanted a quiet, low drag hub. It was like the entire world had gone insane while I was out for a ride. Glad you all came back to your senses.
I was in your camp, I started running non-bling Shimano Silent Clutch hubs about that time.
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
65,969
12,893
In a van.... down by the river
I sort of love/hate when they don't hear you after you try being nice and ask several times at escalating volume and they still don't hear, only to shriek in fear/surprise/anger when you give up and go by anyway. Usually I just tap an ear and keep moving.
And then they categorically refuse to acknowledge that you *did* tell them you were back there. :disgust1:
 

sundaydoug

Monkey
Jun 8, 2009
622
295
counterpoint: dipshit hikers with earbuds
My I9's aren't the loudest, but I'm shocked when I roll up behind hikers walking the same direction that don't hear me. I'm talking like coasting 10 feet behind them, backpedaling to make the hub louder so they hear me. No dice. I should just get a bell.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
My I9's aren't the loudest, but I'm shocked when I roll up behind hikers walking the same direction that don't hear me. I'm talking like coasting 10 feet behind them, backpedaling to make the hub louder so they hear me. No dice. I should just get a bell.
.....those times when I wish I could turn into a mountain lion for 5 minutes
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
I still like loud hubs. In the early 00's, I really loved the sound of the Ringlé Abbah DH (36 POE) and I still do. I also really like the sound of my RaceFace Vault (120POE).

Now that bikes are more quiet than they've ever been, I'd be super interested to try an Onyx hub.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
I still like loud hubs. In the early 00's, I really loved the sound of the Ringlé Abbah DH (36 POE) and I still do. I also really like the sound of my RaceFace Vault (120POE).

Now that bikes are more quiet than they've ever been, I'd be super interested to try an Onyx hub.
Off topic-ing (?) this off topic, I have to admit high engagement hubs are da shizz. Being able to ratchet through steep, tech climbs is amazing. Also, once you get used to the fast pick up after coasting it's hard to get back on 24-36 POE hubs.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,390
830
Off topic-ing (?) this off topic, I have to admit high engagement hubs are da shizz. Being able to ratchet through steep, tech climbs is amazing. Also, once you get used to the fast pick up after coasting it's hard to get back on 24-36 POE hubs.
Yeah I'm a sucker for high engagement hubs too.

(Offline) - Huh? What's that? Ah, ok, thanks bud!

That was Kidwoo calling, strongly recommending an O-Chain to alleviate the issues of high-engagement hubs with the frame's suspension action.
 
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kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Yeah I'm a sucker for high engagement hubs too.

(Offline) - Huh? What's that? Ah, ok, thank bud!

That was Kidwoo calling, strongly recommending an O-Chain to alleviate the issues of high-engagement hubs with the frame's suspension action.

I'm with you guys, on a climbing bike, I like high engagement things.

fortunately pedal kickback while coasting doesn't really exist and the one situation where it might show up (sprinting over rough shit) ochain elastomers don't work because they're already bottomed out


but everyone should still buy it

because reasons
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,348
888
coloRADo
We've got signs up here saying "Leave one out" with a picture of a person with ear buds leaving one out of their ear. They don't put them up everywhere, but they probably should. Lots of newbs with sweet noise cancelling headphones up here that just love to not hear you.

Don't quite get the total noise cancelling on a trail thing. I like to hear. But people also have to say something. Just rolling up backpedalling because you think your rear hub is a way to communicate isn't gonna cut it. (true story, and I actually did say "Just say something." We were checking the map and homeboy apparently was too annoyed to say anything. narrow singletrack, in the back woods. Sorry not sorry to ruin your perfect day. Next time just say hi or something.) And for the record, no one had earbuds in.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,574
4,854
Australia
I sort of love/hate when they don't hear you after you try being nice and ask several times at escalating volume and they still don't hear, only to shriek in fear/surprise/anger when you give up and go by anyway. Usually I just tap an ear and keep moving.
This drives me nuts. They always get so angry and mad at "MTBers flying up behind them" when in reality they're off in La-La land mindlessly wandering along, zig-zagging down the fucking trail with headphones on or some shit.