[Lelandjt]

Reading this conversation about lube is making me realize that I've been blaming the wrong people for what's wrong with the industry. This whole time I've been blaming the industry. But I'm realizing now, that it's not the industry that's to blame, it's you guys.

Except Jm who seems to have his head on straight on this one particular subject.

Can you explain the allegence to oil based lube and hate for wax? I get the aversion to hot waxing. I've never done it cuz it seems like more effort than my current drip wax routine, which works for most of my riding conditions. I can't imagine switching to a drip oil that attracts dirt and results in a drivetrain that is messy to touch, wears out quicker, and needs degreasing when cleaning the bike. If drip wax didn't work for my conditions I would definitely deal with the hassle of hot wax over the hassle of oil.

 

[jonKranked]

But I'm realizing now, that it's not the industry that's to blame, it's you guys.

none of us asked for headset routing.

 

[Gary]

It's not just about saving watts. Better lube means longer chain life, less drivetrain cleaning, and less hassle when you need to touch your drivetrain (taking rear wheel off). There isn't a downside.

This is RIDEMONKEY. There's ALWAYS a downside.

 

[Lelandjt]

This is RIDEMONKEY. There's ALWAYS a downside.

Well sure, you have to tell everyone about chain waxing all the time. That's all.

 

[canadmos]

Pick a lube and be a dick about with it, etc etc

 

[rideit]

If waxing is so great, why don’t Sram and Shimano recommend it, or sell it?
(I have been running wax on one bike out of 10 as an experiment, good so far on the road).

 

[Westy]

Reading this conversation about lube is making me realize that I've been blaming the wrong people for what's wrong with the industry. This whole time I've been blaming the industry. But I'm realizing now, that it's not the industry that's to blame, it's you guys.

Except Jm who seems to have his head on straight on this one particular subject.

Almost like dumb consumers support dumb industries

 

[Gary]

Well sure, you have to tell everyone about chain waxing all the time. That's all.

yeah. Sure.
So long as you're prepared to tell EVERYONE a major downside of chain waxing is that it's actually MOAR time consuming than were lube when riding mtb regularly in a wet climate.
Assuming you're actually profficient and efficient with your cleaning procedure when cleaning wet/muddy bicycles. (eg. Around 5mins total cleaning time incl drivetrain & re-lubing chain)

 

[SylentK]

If waxing is so great, why don’t Sram and Shimano recommend it, or sell it?
(I have been running wax on one bike out of 10 as an experiment, good so far on the road).

Good point.

But why are you on the road? Ain't no boosting doubles on the road bro. @boostindoubles

 

[Gary]

No? Between our governments shitty road maintenance and over exuberant traffic calming measures we have plenty lips to boost and gaps to jump.

 

[boostindoubles]

Good point.

But why are you on the road? Ain't no boosting doubles on the road bro. @boostindoubles

You want to ride the road? Fuck the road, I ain't riding on the road.

 

[Lelandjt]

If waxing is so great, why don’t Sram and Shimano recommend it, or sell it?
(I have been running wax on one bike out of 10 as an experiment, good so far on the road).

That was part of my post that brought this all up. It's crazy that they don't, even on high end chains marketed to racers. Shimano has been the primary sponsor since the start of (Silca guy) Josh Portner's "Marginal Gains" podcast, which has been the loudest pulpit from which hot waxing has been preached in recent years. I'm sure the two of them have had this conversation and I'd love to have been a fly on the wall.
Although, I bet Shimano's answer is boring: "That would cost a few cents more and be a change we have to make, so we won't bother doing it until it's demanded by the market."

 

[Gary]

Or perhaps. Just...
*shrug* "we don't really make chains" .

 

[William42]

You just complemented @Jm_ . Are you sure about that? HA

I had doubts about what I was saying, but I really think he's right on this one.

Can you explain the allegence to oil based lube and hate for wax? I get the aversion to hot waxing. I've never done it cuz it seems like more effort than my current drip wax routine, which works for most of my riding conditions. I can't imagine switching to a drip oil that attracts dirt and results in a drivetrain that is messy to touch, wears out quicker, and needs degreasing when cleaning the bike. If drip wax didn't work for my conditions I would definitely deal with the hassle of hot wax over the hassle of oil.

Easily. Rather than trying some different lube options and using whatever works best for their own personal blend of riding conditions and maintenance goals, people form some crazy ass allegiances to a chainlube because they're whats wrong with the industry. Fixating on taking the easiest and most irrelevant part of bike maintenance and making it into a Thing.

 

[rideit]

Or perhaps. Just...
*shrug* "we don't really make chains" .

Well, SRAM doesn’t really make decent brakes, either.

 

[Gary]

I'm not at all invested in the SRAM Vs Shimano fanboi nonsense. They both make many good products. But also a few quite poor ones.
FWIW I have sram and shimano brakes. But definitely find SRAM to be massively more reliable than shimano. Replaced 6 failed shimano brakes this week alone because of leaking/seized pistons (levers and calipers )

And I'm of the same opinion between Shimano and SRAM chains. Which is no coincidence as SRAM bought the very reliable chain manufacturer. Sachs/Sedis

 

[SylentK]

You want to ride the road? Fuck the road, I ain't riding on the road.

Ha! nice one!

 

[SylentK]

No? Between our governments shitty road maintenance and over exuberant traffic calming measures we have plenty lips to boost and gaps to jump.

Yes. Depends on where you live. You gotta make your own boost and doubles. That can sometimes be the best.

Stupid story. On the way to class at university, in regular shoes and clipless spd's. I had a bit of "a track" where I'd jump some stupid stuff. Like a railroad track, for example. I did eat shit. Trust me. But usually crashes were in winter time. Then bled all over the exam. Then got some first aid. I'm still alive. Thanks to beer.

 

[Gary]

Ooohh.. I've probably got hundreds of stupid urban riding stories to share... But here's one from about 30yrs ago involving unfamiliar pedals.
In Glasgow I'd often meet up with the local mtb club for their midweek evening rides. They'd meet in a hall about 12miles from the city centre where I worked and lived and I used to ride out there. The rides were a couple of hours then back to the hall for drinks before heading back. This night they'd decided to hold a friendly trials comp. So I borrowed a S/H kona rigid mtb from the shop I was working in. Thinking rigid would make it more fun for trials. Even if its fat city slicks and toe clip n strap pedals would not so great for the terrain. A local quarry. Anyway the comp was a good laugh. I ended up in second place after wheelspinning the slick rear tyre on the last challenge. Who could make it furthest up a super step loose technical climb. Rode home well happy. Especially considering the bike I'd used. Anyway.. About a mile from home taking a shortcut through the Scottish exhibition centre car park which was in the process of being resurfaced for the building of a new auditorium still loving the fast light kona and feeling confident on it I spotted a kerb gap into a newly built traffic island. So I sprinted at it as hard as I could, pulled like fuck, cleared the gap nicely... But the second I landed in the newly laid loose stones surface. Both wheels stopped dead. Catapulting me arse over tit onto my back. Feet still stuck in the toe clips like an upturned armadillo with a bunch of evening shift workmen looking on in confusion and me pissing myself laughing as I couldn't get the bike off me or my feet out.
Not a scratch me TBF... Wish I still bounced that well

The auditorium they were building (fuck I'm old)

Me

 

[rideit]

You want to ride the road? Fuck the road, I ain't riding on the road.

I semi-frequently ride on pavement, but rarely on the actual road with cars n’ shit.
(we have about 70 miles of paved pathways and non-motorized roads, including the Old Pass Road).

 

[boostindoubles]

Theres a 20 mile paved pathway that runs down the length of the upper valleys and its a great drain for all the gravel and dirt. Sometimes theres a mile or two of pavement to connect up with the safe stuff.

 

[Inclag]

Aluminum Park/DH bikes at modest prices.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2025-marin-quake

 

[canadmos]

Aluminum Park/DH bikes at modest prices.

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/2025-marin-quake

Yeah not bad.

But why no 200mm true dh bike option?

 

[Westy]

Yeah not bad.

But why no 200mm true dh bike option?

Oh, shit. Another 7 years to design that.

 

[Lelandjt]

Yeah not bad.

But why no 200mm true dh bike option?

Right? I was wondering what they thought the advantage was, on a bike like that, to go sub 200mm. Shorter cheaper shock?

 

[Jm_]

will make F-all difference though, shock quality at those travels will mean more.

 

[SkaredShtles]

If waxing is so great, why don’t Sram and Shimano recommend it, or sell it?

Perhaps they don't mind people needing to buy new chains?

 

[Westy]

will make F-all difference though, shock quality at those travels will mean more.

But that also requires people to setup their suspension properly. LOL

 

[HardtailHack]

Phwoarrrrrrr, downcountry ti hardtail with a 65deg HA, sensible BB drop and near 650mm stack height-

The sliding dropouts can get effed though.

 

[Gary]

650mm stack

Hmm... I know what would look really good with that. Yes. a near flat bar and a ton of spacers. *chef's kiss*

 

[sethimus]

cheaper than a reach reducer headset

 

[jonKranked]

will make F-all difference though, shock quality at those travels will mean more.

Right? I was wondering what they thought the advantage was, on a bike like that, to go sub 200mm. Shorter cheaper shock?

actually longer shock. it's using a 75mm stroke shock for 180mm travel. the lower ratio here should be a benefit.

 

[sbabuser]

Do tell? You can DM me.

Virginia Canyon Mountain Park | COMBA

 

[Jm_]

I bought shimano GE-700 shoes about a month ago in WA out of desperation due to having worn through my old cheap frontline shoes and a pair of 45Nrth Ragnaroks not showing up in time for the (mostly DH) trip. I wanted the added support of the Ragnaroks and despite their more "fall"-season appearance, I find those kinds of shoes just better suited to riding here and better support for DH. But I must say I like the Shimano's, decent shoes and for anything dry I like em. Fit is good, shoe seems tough, no stupid cable crap, just solid. A little pricy IMO for what is probably marked up multiple times the construction cost, but would bang again.

 

[jonKranked]

I bought shimano GE-700 shoes about a month ago in WA out of desperation due to having worn through my old cheap frontline shoes and a pair of 45Nrth Ragnaroks not showing up in time for the (mostly DH) trip. I wanted the added support of the Ragnaroks and despite their more "fall"-season appearance, I find those kinds of shoes just better suited to riding here and better support for DH. But I must say I like the Shimano's, decent shoes and for anything dry I like em. Fit is good, shoe seems tough, no stupid cable crap, just solid. A little pricy IMO for what is probably marked up multiple times the construction cost, but would bang again.

my primary trail shoes are shimano ME5 and i have no complaints about them. couple years old now. i tried spesh 2fo's for DH and like those too.

 

[Gary]

Don't think Shimano have ever made shoes that weren't decent. Plus they've always done affordable ranges right up to professional performance level.

 

[rideit]

I really like this dude.
He gets it.

 

[trib]

Someone in my neighborhood left an old bike out for the garbage men to collect, I had a quick chat with them as I was poking about at it and I’m now the the new (but only second ever) owner of a 1984 Cannondale SM 500, and my first ever mullet bike.

24” of fun in the rear, 26” up front, bullmoose bars, thumb shifters, solid alu frame with lugged crown fork and the least effective brakes I’ve ever ridden. It’s so much fun it’s indecent.

If you get to ride one of these old bikes in good condition there’s no way you’re not smiling.

I’ll sell or donate it on at some point, as it’s not as good a mountain bike as my chameleon, and not as good as a commuter as my Kona, but as a pub bike it’s unbeatable - maybe it’ll stay around for a while

 

[canadmos]

Someone in my neighborhood left an old bike out for the garbage men to collect, I had a quick chat with them as I was poking about at it and I’m now the the new (but only second ever) owner of a 1984 Cannondale SM 500, and my first ever mullet bike.

24” of fun in the rear, 26” up front, bullmoose bars, thumb shifters, solid alu frame with lugged crown fork and the least effective brakes I’ve ever ridden. It’s so much fun it’s indecent.

If you get to ride one of these old bikes in good condition there’s no way you’re not smiling.

I’ll sell or donate it on at some point, as it’s not as good a mountain bike as my chameleon, and not as good as a commuter as my Kona, but as a pub bike it’s unbeatable - maybe it’ll stay around for a while

Come over here and run it in our cheap bike Unduro race.

 

[slimshady]

Someone in my neighborhood left an old bike out for the garbage men to collect, I had a quick chat with them as I was poking about at it and I’m now the the new (but only second ever) owner of a 1984 Cannondale SM 500, and my first ever mullet bike.

24” of fun in the rear, 26” up front, bullmoose bars, thumb shifters, solid alu frame with lugged crown fork and the least effective brakes I’ve ever ridden. It’s so much fun it’s indecent.

If you get to ride one of these old bikes in good condition there’s no way you’re not smiling.

I’ll sell or donate it on at some point, as it’s not as good a mountain bike as my chameleon, and not as good as a commuter as my Kona, but as a pub bike it’s unbeatable - maybe it’ll stay around for a while

I'm supposed to go to upstate NY next year, so I began scouting Craigslist to see if I could make the trip back home with some sweet bike in my baggage. The amount of stuff I'd like to bring back to Argentina is mind blowing. Trek 9000s for 200 bucks, Cannondale Ravens for 375, even a Tomac DH for 500!!! All of them in riding condition!!!

I don't need anything like that, but boy how I'd love to hang some of those sweet old bikes on the walls of my man cave...