[maxyedor]

Its definitely nice to see some budget friendly hardtails out there, but I am a little surprised there's not more steel hardtail options. There seem to be a fair number of UK brands with steel hardtail options, but not many others that I am aware of (well, other than Chromag of course). Not to be that over-the-top "steel is real, brah" guy, but they do ride noticeably better and I would always take a steel hardtail over an aluminum frame, even with the weight penalty.

Manufacturing capacity plays a part I'm sure. The overseas suppliers are Al specialists because it's been the primary material on the market for such a long time. The same children who weld all aluminum dual suspension bikes can weld the aluminum hardtails, switching to steel changes the game significantly from a manufacturing standpoint.

Al is a bit more forgiving when it comes to tubing, to make a light steel frame you need a decent quality tube-set, to do the same with Al you can just use whatever's laying around. There's probably also 10x as many parts and pieces like BB shells, head tubes, and drop-outs available off the shelf. When trying to make a $1200 bike, that stuff adds up fast.

A nice budget build steel hardtail would be pretty sweet though.

 

[OGRipper]

Dentist derailleur?

Linear Derailleur Mechanism by Yeti

Yeti’s linear derailleur to challenge SRAM and Shimano

wheelbased.com

Interesting. White Industries did some kind of linear rear derailleur back in the day. As I recall it required a grip shifter to get that sweet push/pull action.

Edit for pics

:

 

[jackalope]

Manufacturing capacity plays a part I'm sure. The overseas suppliers are Al specialists because it's been the primary material on the market for such a long time. The same children who weld all aluminum dual suspension bikes can weld the aluminum hardtails, switching to steel changes the game significantly from a manufacturing standpoint.

Al is a bit more forgiving when it comes to tubing, to make a light steel frame you need a decent quality tube-set, to do the same with Al you can just use whatever's laying around. There's probably also 10x as many parts and pieces like BB shells, head tubes, and drop-outs available off the shelf. When trying to make a $1200 bike, that stuff adds up fast.

A nice budget build steel hardtail would be pretty sweet though.

Any time you want to stop throwing out pesky facts and manufacturing realities, please feel to do so. This is the internet after all

Figured there were good reasons for the general lake of steel offerings, so thanks for the insight. Just seems like with school being out because of COVID19, they could round more child slaves for the steel side of things.

 

[Bikael Molton]

There are cheapish steel HTs from a few smaller UK and Euro brands like Ragley, On One and NS Bikes.

But the cheapest of the cheap always seem to be aluminum.

 

[slimshady]

I feel personally attacked! I resemble that remark!

Does your Yeti have EEWings?

 

[dump]

Manufacturing capacity plays a part I'm sure. The overseas suppliers are Al specialists because it's been the primary material on the market for such a long time. The same children who weld all aluminum dual suspension bikes can weld the aluminum hardtails, switching to steel changes the game significantly from a manufacturing standpoint.

Al is a bit more forgiving when it comes to tubing, to make a light steel frame you need a decent quality tube-set, to do the same with Al you can just use whatever's laying around. There's probably also 10x as many parts and pieces like BB shells, head tubes, and drop-outs available off the shelf. When trying to make a $1200 bike, that stuff adds up fast.

A nice budget build steel hardtail would be pretty sweet though.

i thought all the really cheap bikes were still hi-ten steel... like all the bmx and department store bikes I see.

 

[buckoW]

Manufacturing capacity plays a part I'm sure. The overseas suppliers are Al specialists because it's been the primary material on the market for such a long time. The same children who weld all aluminum dual suspension bikes can weld the aluminum hardtails, switching to steel changes the game significantly from a manufacturing standpoint.

Al is a bit more forgiving when it comes to tubing, to make a light steel frame you need a decent quality tube-set, to do the same with Al you can just use whatever's laying around. There's probably also 10x as many parts and pieces like BB shells, head tubes, and drop-outs available off the shelf. When trying to make a $1200 bike, that stuff adds up fast.

A nice budget build steel hardtail would be pretty sweet though.

I think there’s little demand. If there was more demand then brands would definitely sell to those people.

 

[maxyedor]

i thought all the really cheap bikes were still hi-ten steel... like all the bmx and department store bikes I see.

On the really really cheap end of the spectrum yes, but we’re talking 10lb, mig welded frames made from straight wall mild steel tube. The next level up, basically the bottom of the barrel for real bikes, everything is aluminum and they’re all being made by the same few factories, all of whom have invested astronomical sums in their aluminum manufacturing capabilities.

I think there’s little demand. If there was more demand then brands would definitely sell to those people.

There’s definitely a lack of demand, but if we’re talking true entry level bikes, we’re talking naive customers who don’t know what they want, they buy what’s sold to them. To compete in that market you need to offer value, and to provide that with a steel frame somebody big would have to invest some serious coin to start churning out quality steel frames that are weight competitive for the same price as the Al ones they do now. Trying to explain to a new rider why steel is worth the weight penalty, price penalty or component spec penalty is a tough sell, and for us bike nerds who actually have a preference, there’s no point, we’ll buy a $600 steel frame and build it with our old take off parts.

 

[ianjenn]

So I couldn't round up a bunch of 11-year-olds, house them in prisons, pay their family $20 a month, maybe have supervisors that have child fetishes. Then expect a product like one of these?

Plan A out the window......

 

[William42]

Does your Yeti have EEWings?

I work for Cane Creek - at this point both of my bikes, and both of my wife's bikes have eeWings at this point. I'm an addict, and bad with money. Having access to good prices doesn't help with my spending habits either. It's like there is constantly a huge sale on rad bike parts.

re: eewings, is it just the bling factor or are there performance benefits I'm not seeing over aluminum cranks?

Their weight at exactly 400g and their price at $999 USD makes me quite skeptical off the bat. XTR comes in around 100g heavier it seems.

I do love the original sweet wings... and the look of a tubular welded crank.

I'm a biased source obviously (see above), so take this with a healthy dose of salt, but from my own experience and what I see on the warranty side of things, they're pretty durable. I'm only 165lbs, and I don't ride like I used to - I'm still riding demanding trails, but I'm no longer going quite as fast, and I'm less likely to hit the bigger features these days, so I can't really make any solid comments on stiffness. Our bigger customers speak highly of them, but I have to believe there's some level of confirmation bias involved. Hard to not think your $999 crankset is the bees knees.

They seem pretty strong from where I'm sitting over in the CS and warranty side of things. I can think of 2-3 times I've seen them legit break, and it's been things like "I crashed and my bike tumbled down a cliff" and "my bike rack broke on the highway" situations. I'd assume that sometimes people are damaging and denting them, because at the end of the day they're just fancy metal tubes, but I really don't see or hear many cases where somebody reaches back out to me to tell me about it because they damaged it in normal riding circumstances.And if they do, we'll cover them. They have a 10 year guarantee, and after the mess that was the original Inline shock, we've spent the past few years trying our best to repair relationships and make our riders feel confident we give a shit about them, as well as spending more time on QC to ensure everything is rad before it goes out the door.

At the end of the day though, they're a premium product that nobody really *needs*

It isn't a product that we're actively trying to push on everybody as a must have product. We don't think anybody needs eeWings to get into the sport or just to have a good time mountain biking. For us, they're just a cool crank that we want on our own bikes that fill a niche as a product that nobody else really makes, and as long as other people want them too, we'll keep making them.

TLDR: they're pretty sweet, they're light, they're super strong, and you don't really need them. But if you want them and can afford them, they're pretty rad.

 

[Jm_]

I work for Cane Creek - at this point both of my bikes, and both of my wife's bikes have eeWings at this point. I'm an addict, and bad with money. Having access to good prices doesn't help with my spending habits either. It's like there is constantly a huge sale on rad bike parts.



I'm a biased source obviously (see above), so take this with a healthy dose of salt, but from my own experience and what I see on the warranty side of things, they're pretty durable. I'm only 165lbs, and I don't ride like I used to - I'm still riding demanding trails, but I'm no longer going quite as fast, and I'm less likely to hit the bigger features these days, so I can't really make any solid comments on stiffness. Our bigger customers speak highly of them, but I have to believe there's some level of confirmation bias involved. Hard to not think your $999 crankset is the bees knees.

They seem pretty strong from where I'm sitting over in the CS and warranty side of things. I can think of 2-3 times I've seen them legit break, and it's been things like "I crashed and my bike tumbled down a cliff" and "my bike rack broke on the highway" situations. I'd assume that sometimes people are damaging and denting them, because at the end of the day they're just fancy metal tubes, but I really don't see or hear many cases where somebody reaches back out to me to tell me about it because they damaged it in normal riding circumstances.And if they do, we'll cover them. They have a 10 year guarantee, and after the mess that was the original Inline shock, we've spent the past few years trying our best to repair relationships and make our riders feel confident we give a shit about them, as well as spending more time on QC to ensure everything is rad before it goes out the door.

At the end of the day though, they're a premium product that nobody really *needs*

It isn't a product that we're actively trying to push on everybody as a must have product. We don't think anybody needs eeWings to get into the sport or just to have a good time mountain biking. For us, they're just a cool crank that we want on our own bikes that fill a niche as a product that nobody else really makes, and as long as other people want them too, we'll keep making them.

TLDR: they're pretty sweet, they're light, they're super strong, and you don't really need them. But if you want them and can afford them, they're pretty rad.

What about specifically impacts to the bottom of the crank? I've impacted my xx1/x01s on a lot of rocks, roots, "stuff" and they seem to do ok with it (as compare to my Next, which full stop do not). So can the bottom below the spindle take a lot of bashing/dents/scrapes?

 

[William42]

What about specifically impacts to the bottom of the crank? I've impacted my xx1/x01s on a lot of rocks, roots, "stuff" and they seem to do ok with it (as compare to my Next, which full stop do not). So can the bottom below the spindle take a lot of bashing/dents/scrapes?

It certainly hasn't been an issue for my cranks - I've had some pretty hairy moments where I've been pedaling fast through sections I shouldn't and planted a crankarm into a rock pretty hard without any major ill effects other than scratching the paint (I have the black version on my mountain bike), on both arms. The bottoms are pretty much ti colored at this point and no longer black, but past that, no issues.

And I haven't heard back from any of our riders complaining about this.

On the same token, I'd be surprised if somebody hasn't damaged them that way. There are some fast riders out there who ride hard and destroy gear. These are a really really well made set of super strong cranks. But they're not indestructible, and they're not made of magic and adamantium.

 

[jonKranked]

What about specifically impacts to the bottom of the crank? I've impacted my xx1/x01s on a lot of rocks, roots, "stuff" and they seem to do ok with it (as compare to my Next, which full stop do not). So can the bottom below the spindle take a lot of bashing/dents/scrapes?

mine have a few in 'em and seem fine.

 

[jonKranked]

I work for Cane Creek

for april fools you should change the branding to "can' crick"

 

[Jm_]

It certainly hasn't been an issue for my cranks - I've had some pretty hairy moments where I've been pedaling fast through sections I shouldn't and planted a crankarm into a rock pretty hard without any major ill effects other than scratching the paint (I have the black version on my mountain bike), on both arms. The bottoms are pretty much ti colored at this point and no longer black, but past that, no issues.

And I haven't heard back from any of our riders complaining about this.

On the same token, I'd be surprised if somebody hasn't damaged them that way. There are some fast riders out there who ride hard and destroy gear. These are a really really well made set of super strong cranks. But they're not indestructible, and they're not made of magic and adamantium.

Is that section below the spindle hollow, or solid?

 

[William42]

Is that section below the spindle hollow, or solid?

It's hollow

 

[toodles]

they're not made of magic and adamantium.

Wow there you have it folks. He's let slip the next version which is probably due for release next week. I'm holding out for those ones.

 

[Electric_City]

Ragley Blue Pig and Piglet are rowdy hardtails designed in the UK. (manufactured in a small shop in china or Taiwan)
*triple butted chro-moly
* replaceable derailleur hanger,
*140-160/120-140mm fork
*gusseted head tube
*threaded 73mm bb
*12x148 hub (was 12x142)
*ISCG05 tabs.

Bought my frame for $415 shipped.

Was a Reply to jackalopes request but forgot he mentioned Ragley already

 

[rideit]

You rang?

 

[sethimus]

Ragley Blue Pig and Piglet are rowdy hardtails designed in the UK. (manufactured in a small shop in china or Taiwan)
*triple butted chro-moly
* replaceable derailleur hanger,
*140-160/120-140mm fork
*gusseted head tube
*threaded 73mm bb
*12x148 hub (was 12x142)
*ISCG05 tabs.

meh, not slack enough

 

[Electric_City]

I know that those 2 frames aren't for everyone. But somebody asked for a chro-moly frame in the aggressive HT format. As a rider you need to be dynamic. The bike is. When you started riding (in what year?) did you say "I'm never going to ride a bike until they have 2021 geometry"? The bike moves, your body moves and the terrain is constantly changing. Measurements do matter, fit and feel matter. But skill can get you past a degree or two, or a millimeter or five here or there. I found this out years ago. You should try it!

 

[Jm_]

I know that those 2 frames aren't for everyone. But somebody asked for a chro-moly frame in the aggressive HT format. As a rider you need to be dynamic. The bike is. When you started riding (in what year?) did you say "I'm never going to ride a bike until they have 2021 geometry"? The bike moves, your body moves and the terrain is constantly changing. Measurements do matter, fit and feel matter. But skill can get you past a degree or two, or a millimeter or five here or there. I found this out years ago. You should try it!

That's kind of my fear. Some bikes, like some of the XC stuff, is being dumbed down pretty far, like no reason for the front end to be that slack, it's not the limiting faster in speed/tech, give a giant 29" hoop and adequate fork stiffness and travel. But then said bike starts to get shitting in the places where it does matter, going quickly around turns, etc. Not that I don't appreciate a decently slack bike, but some of this stuff is getting ridiculous. Especially the people thinking that this is really doing something for them...

 

[StiHacka]

Ragley Blue Pig and Piglet are rowdy hardtails designed in the UK. (manufactured in a small shop in china or Taiwan)
*triple butted chro-moly
* replaceable derailleur hanger,
*140-160/120-140mm fork
*gusseted head tube
*threaded 73mm bb
*12x148 hub (was 12x142)
*ISCG05 tabs.

Bought my frame for $415 shipped.

Was a Reply to jackalopes request but forgot he mentioned Ragley already

Y U no N9?

 

[jstuhlman]

curious to see how it feels to beat the shit out of the cotic bfe that i've built up and overforked with a 36 in a few weeks . . . just need to find some brakes . . . or maybe not.

 

[Westy]

curious to see how it feels to beat the shit out of the cotic bfe that i've built up and overforked with a 36 in a few weeks . . . just need to find some brakes . . . or maybe not.

Nice. I built up a Chromag a year ago really out of boredom. It is my favorite bike now but super happy to also have a full suspension. More rewarding but a lot more work.

 

[mykel]

I hate you guys.

I would absolutely love a steel hardtail with good geo.
The full rigid steel stuff I cut my teeth on, I have no interest in , - but to revisit the front suspension steel hardtails they evolved into but with current materials, geo and parts would be a blast.

Unfortunately my back, feet and head would each revolt. The body could not take the beating, and my TBI issues with processing narrow trail features at speed would be far far worse on a hardtail. The added roughness would up the vision processing issues causing me to slow down and then bash through more stuff instead of gapping or skipping over it causing more rough, and vision...and we go recursive.

Therefore, I will live vicariously though you

 

[Electric_City]

Y U no N9?

Ummm... I don't have a Nokia phone?

 

[StiHacka]

Ummm... I don't have a Nokia phone?

 

[Jm_]

View attachment 156195

Why bend the seat-stays like that? Seems to make no sense.

 

[Westy]

Why bend the seat-stays like that? Seems to make no sense.

I would guess it aids in allowing some verical compliance.

 

[dump]

I would guess it aids in allowing some verical compliance.

Maybe so people think that, but yeah... that's not going to do jack.

 

[Westy]

Maybe so people think that, but yeah... that's not going to do jack.

It most definitely will be more compliant. Maybe only +0.001% more, but that is moar.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

It most definitely will be more compliant. Maybe only +0.001% more, but that is moar.

I don't have any compliant with that.

 

[StiHacka]

Steel is real.

 

[slimshady]

Steel is real.

So is aluminum, it just doesn't rhyme.

 

[toodles]

Pinkbike doing Saturday Sends (https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video-saturday-sends-1.html) to complement Friday Fails is just all the win.

 

[rideit]

This is a very interesting piece on the state of the industry from the ceo of Santa Cruz.
Good questions, good answers.

 

[StiHacka]

So is aluminum, it just doesn't rhyme.

I should have said "steel is real nice", but that does not rhyme either.
My lower back is done with Al and krabonz hardtails.

 

[dump]

This is a very interesting piece on the state of the industry from the ceo of Santa Cruz.
Good questions, good answers.

Surprised to see @joeg CEO of santa cruz?! Though it was Rob Roskopp and Joe was running customer support or quality assurance!

 

[6thElement]

This is a very interesting piece on the state of the industry from the ceo of Santa Cruz.
Good questions, good answers.

I wonder if GBS paid him to wear that hat, @Nick 's LBS