[mykel]

Large 29r aluminum bike, full coil, Onyx hubs, Spank Vibrocore rims and Exo+ Assegai / Dissector and I'm just over 36 pounds. (Feedback sports digital bike scale)

And these carbon wonderbikes with carbon wheels but probably DD or DH tires are 2+ pounds heavier? I don't get where the weight is coming from? I figured they would be a couple, three or so pounds lighter than me...

 

[Jm_]

Large 29r aluminum bike, full coil, Onyx hubs, Spank Vibrocore rims and Exo+ Assegai / Dissector and I'm just over 36 pounds. (Feedback sports digital bike scale)

And these carbon wonderbikes with carbon wheels but probably DD or DH tires are 2+ pounds heavier? I don't get where the weight is coming from? I figured they would be a couple, three or so pounds lighter than me...

Running actual DH/enduro casings?

 

[Andeh]

It's death by 1,000 cuts. Bigger wheels/tires = more weight. DH casing = more weight. 38mm forks = more weight. DH rated brakes = more weight. 200/220mm rotors = more weight. Bigger, more durable frames = more weight.

My Nomad 3 with a DHX2 & Fox 36, EXO tires, Chinese carbon wheels, 180mm rotors / MT Trail brakes, Next SL carbon cranks, pedals etc. weighed right on 30 lbs. My Nomad 6 with SD coil & Zeb, Reserve AL HD wheels, Ti cranks, Dominions w/ 200/220 rotors, and DH Conti tires weighs 36 lbs. Going down to Enduro casing tires saves 0.5 lb. The N6 pedals (and descends) way better. It also feels like a featherweight compared to my 50+ lb ebike.

 

[schwaaa31]

I'm MOAR shocked punters think 34lb is light for a no expense spared carbon Enduro bike. My fairly stock/poverty spec 5yr old YT Capra is 30lb on the nose with exos or 31 and a bit with DH casings

Enduro is weird tho. riding a 40lb bike with draggy tyres uphill ALL day? Er.. Nah! I'll stay in bed thanks.

I’m officially a punter! I take that as a compliment from you, Gary.

 

[SylentK]

Kinda surprised more rim companies haven't found a way to bypass or licence Mavic's UST system patent. I've got a pari of Deemax that came on my Mega and I was super dubious of them at first but its grown on me heaps. Dead simple to work with and hassle free. Plus you can go crazy brutal and ignorant doing tyre plugs and tyre levers without stabbing or wrecking the rim tape.

Yeah, agreed.

I had 3 Deemax type wheelsets once. Like an XC, Trail, DH set. They all had different names (Crossmax? Can't remember the XC set). But man, that was a no brainer when it came to tubeless. This was back in like 2008.

Finding replacement spokes/nips? Not so no brainer. And the rims would be considered too skinny for today's WT tires. But I'd love to have another set. They were that good. Reliable hubs and whatnot too.

 

[Gary]

I’m officially a punter! I take that as a compliment from you, Gary.

We're all punters

 

[6thElement]

Reliable hubs and whatnot too.

Preload on Deemax hubs used to back off while you were driving to ride...

 

[SylentK]

Preload on Deemax hubs used to back off while you were driving to ride...

Yeah, I don't remember that. But they def had a learning curve to working on them. Took a special tool. They gave a plastic one to you on purchase. Like a spanner? The 2 dot type thing. Not sure if that's the right word. DT/Swiss is way easier.

 

[rideit]

Yeah, agreed.

I had 3 Deemax type wheelsets once. Like an XC, Trail, DH set. They all had different names (Crossmax? Can't remember the XC set). But man, that was a no brainer when it came to tubeless. This was back in like 2008.

Finding replacement spokes/nips? Not so no brainer. And the rims would be considered too skinny for today's WT tires. But I'd love to have another set. They were that good. Reliable hubs and whatnot too.

MAVIC?
Reliable hubs?
Some of the most notoriously unreliable hubs in MTB history, actually.
(number 2 might be Stan’s, number 3 probably 2cnd Gen WTB)
But agreed, UST rims were a pleasure to deal with.
Building them had some extra steps, though.

 

[SylentK]

MAVIC?
Reliable hubs?
Some of the most notoriously unreliable hubs in MTB history, actually.
But agreed, UST rims were a pleasure to deal with.
Building them had some extra steps, though.

Hmm...Well there you go.

I really didn't have any issues. Except for the learning curve. But I also only had them for like 3ish seasons. During the hayday of DH, Mavic would actually be at the races if you needed help. And Marz. Ah...the good old days.

 

[canadmos]

And these carbon wonderbikes with carbon wheels but probably DD or DH tires are 2+ pounds heavier? I don't get where the weight is coming from? I figured they would be a couple, three or so pounds lighter than me...

I'm sure some of these frames have now entered the realm where they are carbon, just to be carbon. They are heavy and in turn stronger. There's no reason to sacrifice durability for weight now - everyone loses when they play that game.

It clear that some of them, like Santa Cruz and Pivot, are lighter. But there are also reports of those frames undoing themselves in unspectacular ways - seemingly while just riding along.


My new bike is 38 pounds (with tools and pump), so its nice to see its not the only heavy pig out there. But that's also with EXO tires, which I'm about to swap out for DD front/back in prep for the trip out west. It sucks going uphill, but whatever, the way it eats the terrain when pointed downhill is something else. And I am not worried about any parts on it being not up to the task, just point it and go.

 

[toodles]

Finding replacement spokes/nips? Not so no brainer. And the rims would be considered too skinny for today's WT tires. But I'd love to have another set. They were that good. Reliable hubs and whatnot too.

My bike came with 6 replacement spokes in the box. I've had to change two after a rock (not a stick - a goddamn rock) somehow flicked up into the wheel and stopped it during a lap. Best part? No need to remove cassette, rotor or tyre to change the spoke. Didn't even take the wheel out of the bike.

The hubs are still going strong on the OG bearings after 30 months of QLD rain and dust plus Trans Madeira and Trans Tassie mud and dust. The low engagement point count would be a deal breaker for many though, I think its like 30-ish? Hasn't bothered my since I got used to it really but would annoy me more if it was my only bike maybe.

 

[Westy]

Yeah, agreed.

I had 3 Deemax type wheelsets once. Like an XC, Trail, DH set. They all had different names (Crossmax? Can't remember the XC set). But man, that was a no brainer when it came to tubeless. This was back in like 2008.

Finding replacement spokes/nips? Not so no brainer. And the rims would be considered too skinny for today's WT tires. But I'd love to have another set. They were that good. Reliable hubs and whatnot too.

The SL or later versions of those Mavic XC hubs used a bushing in lieu of a bearing in the freehub. After about 6 months it would start to howl like a banshee. I bought a couple of sets from mechanically hapless racer bois for the price of a few spokes. Bushing was easy to replace or just throw some grease at.

 

[toodles]

I'm MOAR shocked punters think 34lb is light for a no expense spared carbon Enduro bike. My fairly stock/poverty spec 5yr old YT Capra is 30lb on the nose with exos or 31 and a bit with DH casings

Oh they're not light hey,. My air sprung 27.5 carbon Mega is 16kg/35.25lbs with Conti DH tyres and spare tube strapped to the frame. Wonder how many tools and spares are on those pros bikes too.

Going to 29 F&R adds like 100g per wheel just in rubber weight from 27.5, nearly 200g from 26". Plus you have to bearing in mind that frames all got a fair bit bigger so a new small frame is basically a 2015 Large.

I reckon you could build a modern bike pretty close to the older trail bike weights if you keep the WB, casing thickness and wheel size the same, even thing like dropper post travel adds a chunk of weight.

 

[FlipFantasia]

yeah I'm on ~30lbs for my bronson with xt drivetrain, gx cranks, and reserve wheels with exo+...although I'm only about 145lbs nekkid these days and am not a smashy hack. I do rally the shit out of it on gnarly terrain though and it's been solid AF. I'm glad I don't need all that extra bullshit and weight, if I'm going to be riding particularly sharp and rocky terrain I will bump up to DD or DH as necessary, but no insert faff. I am not interested in these porky enduro bikes personally.

 

[canadmos]

yeah I'm on ~30lbs for my bronson with xt drivetrain, gx cranks, and reserve wheels with exo+...although I'm only about 145lbs nekkid these days and am not a smashy hack. I do rally the shit out of it on gnarly terrain though and it's been solid AF. I'm glad I don't need all that extra bullshit and weight, if I'm going to be riding particularly sharp and rocky terrain I will bump up to DD or DH as necessary, but no insert faff. I am not interested in these porky enduro bikes personally.

That's a good point about weight of the rider.

I am a fatass, so when those rocks are pointing up, the mass of my bike and ass tries to go right through it, rather than up and over.

All that mass is spectacular for accelerating downhill though. Makes it pretty easy to freight train over your buddies if they get in the way.

 

[Westy]

I have a 30lb and 36lb enduro-ish bikes. Honestly for the intended use I don't notice the weight difference all that much other than when picking them up.

 

[Happymtb.fr]

About the weight increase, all the following will yield more weight for questionable improvements

• Wider rims
• Wider tires
• Moar gear
• Megarange cassette
• Super long dropper
• 29" wheels

Look at the size of derailleur these days

 

[Gary]

Honestly

You honestly don't notice the 6lb drop lighter bike being more nimble?

I notice that immediately if I simply swap out the 630wh to 504wh battery on my ~50lb Emtb (~48 with the smaller battery)

Just riding along or climbing it's not really so noticeable but doing anything dynamic or accelerating weight makes a massive difference.. The main downside to lower weight is obviously less stability

 

[Westy]

You honestly don't notice the 6lb drop lighter bike being more nimble?

I notice that immediately if I simply swap out the 630wh to 504wh battery on my ~50lb Emtb (~48 with the smaller battery)

Just riding along or climbing it's not really so noticeable but doing anything dynamic or accelerating weight makes a massive difference.. The main downside to lower weight is obviously less stability

Well with a little more context I am sure I would notice in back to back testing but days apart? Not so much. Also when I said intended use that meant just grinding slowly up hills, no accelerating or sprinting. Once things points downhill I certainly do not notice it.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. How often you ride and how familiar you are with your bikes probably makes a ton of difference to what you will or won't notice.

 

[trib]

I think there’s a big difference to two completely different bikes having a 6lb variance and the same bike being a few lbs lighter or heavier.

 

[6thElement]

I think there’s a big difference to two completely different bikes having a 6lb variance and the same bike being a few lbs lighter or heavier.

Which is heavier though, 6lb extra on a moped or 6lb on a bicycle?

 

[toodles]

Aside from trying to force feed us E-EDR coverage, the new coverage from the Enduro World Cup series is so much better and faster to come out I'm gonna have to say its whats right with the industry this year.

 

[Gary]

Giga's aren't light.

 

[sethimus]

that shop floor needs a scrubing

 

[slimshady]

View attachment 196042

Giga's aren't light.

I'd say about 2-3 lbs are from the mud collected beneath the mudguard and inside the BB.

 

[Gary]

Don't forget the orange water in the bearing grease
(now replaced)

 

[Gary]

that shop floor needs a scrubing

Got done after that last job.
What sorta fanny would do it before?

 

[Lelandjt]

About the weight increase, all the following will yield more weight for questionable improvements

• Wider rims
• Wider tires
• Moar gear
• Megarange cassette
• Super long dropper
• 29" wheels

Look at the size of derailleur these days
View attachment 195919

You should see the size and weight of the new XO1 Transmission derailleur. I installed one of these new groups the other day and the thing was MASSIVE enough that everyone was commenting on it.

 

[Lelandjt]

It clear that some of them, like Santa Cruz and Pivot, are lighter.

Wait, I thought Santa Cruz frames are heavy. I work at a SC dealer but ride Scotts, partly cuz the frames are 1lb+ lighter. Who makes carbon frames even heavier than SC? Yeti? Maybe the crazy high pivot bikes with extra chain and pulleys?

 

[Lelandjt]

My new bike is 38 pounds (with tools and pump). But that's also with EXO tires, which I'm about to swap out for DD.
It eats the terrain when pointed downhill.
I am not worried about any parts on it being not up to the task.

My 170mm Scott Ransom with 38 fork, 210 seatpost, and twin DDs is just under 30lbs. It's great on rough DHs and nothing has failed in 4 1/2 seasons. Bikes don't have to be crazy heavy if carefully specced.
I wouldn't be caught dead mounting tools or a pump on it though.

 

[canadmos]

Wait, I thought Santa Cruz frames are heavy. I work at a SC dealer but ride Scotts, partly cuz the frames are 1lb+ lighter. Who makes carbon frames even heavier than SC? Yeti? Maybe the crazy high pivot bikes with extra chain and pulleys?

Its hard to actually find frame weights these days... but maybe you're right. Now that you can stuff your downtube full of burritos on them, of course they're heavier now.

Transition frames appear to be similar; Nomad is 7.27lbs vs Patrol at 7.4lbs.

It probably also comes down to some of the longer warranties being offered as well. A few extra dollars of strength will mean less replacements down the road for them; and they can still upcharge more for the concept of a lifetime warranty.

My 170mm Scott Ransom with 38 fork, 210 seatpost, and twin DDs is just under 30lbs. It's great on rough DHs and nothing has failed in 4 1/2 seasons. Bikes don't have to be crazy heavy if carefully specced.
I wouldn't be caught dead mounting tools or a pump on it though.

Kind of comparing limes and lemons with that though. I'm guessing your bike is carbon everything, where mine has zero carbon. The frame alone is 8.7 pounds with an airshock, which I've swapped out for a heavy coil.

I'm guessing I also weigh a lot more than you, so you smashing through rocks is a lot different than when I go through them.

 

[FlipFantasia]

It probably also comes down to some of the longer warranties being offered as well. A few extra dollars of strength will mean less replacements down the road for them; and they can still upcharge more for the concept of a lifetime warranty.

my anecdotal experience...prior to my 2019 Bronson, I rode Reign's from about 2012-2018 went through 2 aluminum frames, and in 2015 bumped to the carbon advanced when they moved to the 'newer' enduro style design, and then cracked 2 of those over the next 4 years. I'm into year 5 on my Bronson, and it's solid AF. I haven't had a single regret and expect to get a couple more seasons out of it as I put a cascade link on it this spring which really freshened it up overall.

 

[toodles]

Wait, I thought Santa Cruz frames are heavy. I work at a SC dealer but ride Scotts, partly cuz the frames are 1lb+ lighter. Who makes carbon frames even heavier than SC? Yeti? Maybe the crazy high pivot bikes with extra chain and pulleys?

The Santa Cruz frames have some of the best strength to weight around I reckon (I'm not really a Santa Cruz fan, but they do seem to last). Seen too many Scotts broken through centre of downtube or other random "shouldn't-break-there" places. Its almost like every other manufacturer is heavier for a reason.

 

[Gary]

Yeah. They do seem pretty tough. Might just be round here but they do go through a ton of bearings. But so do a certain other manufacturers frames made in the same place. coincidence? Dunno

 

[toodles]

Yeah. They do seem pretty tough. Might just be round here but they do go through a ton of bearings. But so do a certain other manufacturers frames made in the same place. coincidence? Dunno

They come with Enduro bearings, and because of the unlimited frame bearing warranty they get replaced with - more Enduro bearings. So yeah, kinda writes itself.... Popping some proper bearings in usually solves most bikes that eat bearings.

I've only seen a couple of applications where someone has specced a pivot with a bad sized bearing that is actually the frame makers fault. Normally its just shitty bearings.

 

[Gary]

They come with Enduro bearings

TBF the worst culprits on Santa Cruz frames I'd regularly see were always the ones with the open bearings in the links

 

[toodles]

TBF the worst culprits on Santa Cruz frames I'd regularly see were always the ones with the open bearings in the links

They have open bearings? What the crap

 

[Gary]

the old grease port variants