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Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,655
AK
Getting beaten by 10 seconds and not by more is an achievement.

Also yeah 30lbs with parts like carbon rotors. 35-36 was with stuff like big ass formula 220m front rotor, saint brakes, saint cranks etc.

Though I agree with you I never felt like going lighter had that many downsides. As Gary says. How the weight is distributed seems to matter more. Plus some light parts were not as stiff and imho that had a bigger effect even if your brain told you it was the weight and not noodle parts.
Yeah, I remember that "test" between a new DH bike and old one, saying that over 4 min it's only 20 seconds slow and that's pretty much the same or whatever. Yeah, people just don't get how giant of a time gap that is. It's common for the top ten to be within the first 5 seconds. You put them on a rig that's 20 seconds slower? No chance in hell. Same with auto racing, we are looking at dozens of cars in multiple classes, from 100hp to 500hp, racing autocross for 40 seconds all within 5 seconds of each other, in other words, they are all a lot closer here than people like to think...they sure aren't "twice as slow". You get to the highest levels of comp and fractions of seconds matter. Skills plays into it for sure, but you can't take a 20 second hit and expect to be competitive either.
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,139
383
Slightly unrelated, but he also makes it sound like his setup on that bike is a complete disaster due to not having enough time on "real" tracks before the start of the season. I think they got their updated frames pretty late, but you'd still think the team would manage to do a week in Europe before the world cups given that your entire job and career is based around like 6 or 7 races a year. The overall discussion about what he's chasing with the setup I thought was pretty interesting, but couldn't help but think that a top level racer should manage to be better prepared.
I agree Brother.

With Trek,Spesh,and YT he did not go to Europe as well no? I know he had problems with Spesh Bike,but I am not aware of any bike Troubles until Intense. Intense is the only one he has had that was a Prototype from the get. I guess it must be a clusterfuck. I am Confused that the Bike is that far off,that it need’s tobe ran in Europe though? That is,being Gwin and all.

How long has Bruni been on that black bag? 3 years now? So I can look forward to Finn not having it because they Finally got it dialed? I hope this Drivetrain issue is under control,was it bad luck,or somfing else? Mabye the Rookie is happy to not have the black bag?

Avy
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,973
2,187
not in Whistler anymore :/
isn‘t gwin the first one to hit the plane to fly back to the good old us of a as soon as there is a chance after a race? also isn’t he the owner of the team? if only he could do something about it. last time i checked there was no law that prohibits americans to test in italy/portugal during winter
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
828
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
View attachment 196810



There's a 250g difference between a 29" and 26" Maxxis DHF and thats the tyre alone let alone the heavier fork and rim etc. Plus you're basically riding a bike thats two sizes smaller if its more than 4 or 5 years old. Even shit like proper big rotors add a bit. No wonder weights on modern DH bikes *seem* unimpressive. They're actually doing pretty well realistically.



I'll say. The couple of times I've lined up against pros have had margins that made me consider competitive darts as a new hobby. If I got 10 seconds off Gwin's time it'd have to be a 30 second section of track or else it'd be my new go-to nostalgic heyday story to bore my kid with
Easy there, it coulda been 11, 13 seconds? He won and I think I got 14th. I was slipping over to the dark side of enduro by that point. I beat Gwin once at a Snowmass DH. He flatted part way down.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,761
Australia
Easy there, it coulda been 11, 13 seconds? He won and I think I got 14th. I was slipping over to the dark side of enduro by that point. I beat Gwin once at a Snowmass DH. He flatted part way down.
Kovarik showed up to our local DH race back in the day on a Tazer hardtail for a bit of practice and still podiumed way ahead of me. At that stage I began rehearsing a whole script of excuses that have served me through the years.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,093
Yeah, I remember that "test" between a new DH bike and old one, saying that over 4 min it's only 20 seconds slow and that's pretty much the same or whatever. Yeah, people just don't get how giant of a time gap that is. It's common for the top ten to be within the first 5 seconds. You put them on a rig that's 20 seconds slower? No chance in hell. Same with auto racing, we are looking at dozens of cars in multiple classes, from 100hp to 500hp, racing autocross for 40 seconds all within 5 seconds of each other, in other words, they are all a lot closer here than people like to think...they sure aren't "twice as slow". You get to the highest levels of comp and fractions of seconds matter. Skills plays into it for sure, but you can't take a 20 second hit and expect to be competitive either.
Laurie Greenland said in an interview when he was on Mondraker that he was consistently fastest on his old 26" bike. They were on the 27.5 at the time and developing the 29" and he brought his 26" for shits and giggles.

BTW: All these current tests of "old" DH bike vs. new is always a brand new, well set up current DH bike vs. a clapped out vintage bike that they bought for 200 bucks from ebay and did not even bother to service. Sure the new one is better, but what about a NOS 26" bike from the latest generation with current suspension bits and new parts?
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,105
3,820
sw ontario canada
those are not available in metric sizes. the end
Cane Creek or one of its authorized service centres will take your old imperial shock and update it to current spec without trans surgery, so it will remain imperial. Just had one done. I would lay monies that other high end providers would do the same.
 

Avy

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2006
1,139
383
isn‘t gwin the first one to hit the plane to fly back to the good old us of a as soon as there is a chance after a race? also isn’t he the owner of the team? if only he could do something about it. last time i checked there was no law that prohibits americans to test in italy/portugal during winter
Good call Brother. I don’t know about him wanting tobe the 1st to get back? Is this Rumor or Fact?

In any case,he is the Owner,which I seem to have forgot with all the bullshit of the sled. As such,he need not talk about this as a problem only testing in USA. If that is the case? Further,whomever he was talking to should have asked him why not travel outside us of a to test?

Avy
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,973
2,187
not in Whistler anymore :/
Good call Brother. I don’t know about him wanting tobe the 1st to get back? Is this Rumor or Fact?

In any case,he is the Owner,which I seem to have forgot with all the bullshit of the sled. As such,he need not talk about this as a problem only testing in USA. If that is the case? Further,whomever he was talking to should have asked him why not travel outside us of a to test?

Avy
have you ever seen him stay say in schladming etc with all the other pros inbetween world cups? afaik he always goes home
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
View attachment 196810



There's a 250g difference between a 29" and 26" Maxxis DHF and thats the tyre alone let alone the heavier fork and rim etc. Plus you're basically riding a bike thats two sizes smaller if its more than 4 or 5 years old. Even shit like proper big rotors add a bit. No wonder weights on modern DH bikes *seem* unimpressive. They're actually doing pretty well realistically.



I'll say. The couple of times I've lined up against pros have had margins that made me consider competitive darts as a new hobby. If I got 10 seconds off Gwin's time it'd have to be a 30 second section of track or else it'd be my new go-to nostalgic heyday story to bore my kid with
Yeah. Remember when even super burly alu frames came at sub 4kg w/o shock? Easy when the reach was 3 sizes shorter.

As for Gwin - I'm waaaaay slower than you both. Even in my pre 4 years of nearly non riding I was slower than any of you but the one time at my "peak racing speed" I tried to follow Danny Hart on a really mellow flow trail in Alpe D'Huez and I was surprised at where he was gaining speed on me. I assumed I'd not be losing crazy ground on relatively easy parts of the trail. Obivously I was wrong.

Yeah, I remember that "test" between a new DH bike and old one, saying that over 4 min it's only 20 seconds slow and that's pretty much the same or whatever. Yeah, people just don't get how giant of a time gap that is. It's common for the top ten to be within the first 5 seconds. You put them on a rig that's 20 seconds slower? No chance in hell. Same with auto racing, we are looking at dozens of cars in multiple classes, from 100hp to 500hp, racing autocross for 40 seconds all within 5 seconds of each other, in other words, they are all a lot closer here than people like to think...they sure aren't "twice as slow". You get to the highest levels of comp and fractions of seconds matter. Skills plays into it for sure, but you can't take a 20 second hit and expect to be competitive either.
The best way is to translate seconds to distance so people know how many meters they are behind someone. Still in dh outside of the world cup level the gaps can be quite high.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,516
828
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Yeah. Remember when even super burly alu frames came at sub 4kg w/o shock? Easy when the reach was 3 sizes shorter.

As for Gwin - I'm waaaaay slower than you both. Even in my pre 4 years of nearly non riding I was slower than any of you but the one time at my "peak racing speed" I tried to follow Danny Hart on a really mellow flow trail in Alpe D'Huez and I was surprised at where he was gaining speed on me. I assumed I'd not be losing crazy ground on relatively easy parts of the trail. Obivously I was wrong.



The best way is to translate seconds to distance so people know how many meters they are behind someone. Still in dh outside of the world cup level the gaps can be quite high.
This post reminded me of the tightest race I was ever in. On a 12+ minute enduro stage at maybe the only race I've ever done that had timing down to the thousandth of a second, Joe Lawwill and I finished dead even. It would have been wild to see how many times we passed each other.
 
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toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,512
4,761
Australia
This post reminded me of the tightest race I was ever in. On a 12+ minute enduro stage at maybe the only race I've ever done that had timing down to the thousandth of a second, Joe Lawwill and I finished dead even. It would have been wild to see how many times we passed each other.
Was the result recorded as a tie? That is pretty wild.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Re tight races - Remember Willingen track? That huge BMX track masquarading as a DH race course? Wasn't there once a race where Mick and Greg finished within a thousandth of a second of each other there?
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
531
661
Yes, they did the double eyelet for testing purposes, but the next iterations will only have one and will look different.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,995
9,655
AK
It will definitely have a regular-mount version, IDK if they will be combined like the prototype, but I did talk to Vorsprung about the eyelet bushings, their original plan was spherical on both ends, which won't fit some bikes due to clearance issues, I showed them some pictures. IDK if they are going to have a non-spherical version, but if not, it could cut out a significant number of bikes. It's mainly the extra distance that it adds to the total length, a lot of bikes don't have that clearance beyond the shock bolt, the frame or linkage is in the way.
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,917
1,271
SWE
Italians from dhsign.it have made spherical bushings that fit into standard eyelets:

Their solution seems to be patented...
 
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Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,015
990
Italians from dhsign.it have made spherical bushings that fit into standard eyelets:

Their solution seems to patented...
I put one of these on the front eyelet of my Levo, which are notorious for fucking up shocks. It hasn't exploded yet.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,480
422

I wasn’t sure where to post this. Injuries and the repercussions suffered post concussion/burn out like Tahnee has gone through is definitely a more sinister part of our (and all contact) sport.
The ability to come back and continue to be a leader after an injury thats rattled you is an incredible show of strength and maturation from Tahnee.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
531
661
This morning I asked Ohlins USA if their coil shocks were approved for use with a clevis yoke and if they knew how much % of progression their rubber bumpers were adding at the end stroke of the shock (never thought they’d answer that, but I stil asked).

Got a reply a few hours later :
  1. Yes, when Fox released their technical bulletin banning the use of coil shocks on Clevis yokes, we asked our engineers about it. We confirmed that the TTX22m (and m.2) were designed to take the side load. Enjoy!
  2. I don’t have the exact spring curve for the new bump rubber, but it will be similar to the old one, shown below. I would try the linear spring first for a more consistent damping feel.
    image002.png
    .

I was not expecting an answer that clear, precise and thorough. I’m glad that I bought that shock! Five star customer service!
 

Attachments

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,024
1,154
El Lay
Been runnin coil TTX22m on a 2021 clevis Meta AM since Nov '20 with no issues. Love this shock, but it's definitely on the damped / high-traction end of the spectrum vs. "poppy and playful".

No, I haven't measured whether the frame was welded straight, and I'm relatively light (165 lbs) and not a frame or suspension wrecker generally.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,064
14,711
where the trails are
So both of my Ohlins TTX shocks (1 air, 1 coil) have such minimal rebound tunes I'd consider having them re-shimmed when it's time for service. @bullcrew have you re-shimmed / re-built any of these shocks?
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,024
1,154
El Lay
Mine is also light on the rebound tune. I run 1 click from full closed for trail riding and home trails generally, and full closed on double blacks and steeper tech trails that I don't have memorized.

Anyone near or over 200lbs probably needs a retune.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
So both of my Ohlins TTX shocks (1 air, 1 coil) have such minimal rebound tunes I'd consider having them re-shimmed when it's time for service. @bullcrew have you re-shimmed / re-built any of these shocks?
I have , Jake and I go back and forth on stuff and is really good at addressing the changes needed based on all variables and complaints...best company I've worked with by far...
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Mine is also light on the rebound tune. I run 1 click from full closed for trail riding and home trails generally, and full closed on double blacks and steeper tech trails that I don't have memorized.

Anyone near or over 200lbs probably needs a retune.
240# before gear and love the set up on the session, Jake and I went over it ahead of time and it's dialed...we are doing a tune for nomad and possibly hightower if I opt to keep it.

I prefer to run a bit more preload and soak up and stay stuck...if it's big enough or I need to get up I'll power it down and up.

I can see some wanting more pop and yeah more comp and or move the curve a bit
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
531
661
Thanks @Bikael Molton , I have a 2020 Meta AM so this is good to hear. Mine isn't that bad alignment-wise in general, but when I bolt one end of the shock, the other end arrives perfectly in line with the hole, so I should be good.

I prefer fast rebound and a planted feel, so it seems like I will love this shock.

@bullcrew The guy who answered my email was Jake. He seems really helpful and knowledgeable!