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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,824
5,201
Australia
Should they only take a time penalty when it's a wheel size? What about a reach of over 500mm,or a head tube angle less than 64°? What about a sticky compound tyre? You could easily argue that an ultrasoft Magic Mary has zero relevance to the vast majority of riders but they use those for downhill racing.
Or is out only advancements that you personally don't like that should be given time penalties or made to race their own category?
Don't read too deep into it haha. The boys were just saying if a company wants to claim that a wheel size or electronic suspension or whatever is X% better empirically, how many of them would be willing to wager half that difference as a time penalty to level the field.

There was a bit of beer involved prior to this point, and one of the crew has recently made the jump to a 29er race bike which started the whole discussion.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,473
4,208
sw ontario canada
Don't read too deep into it haha. The boys were just saying if a company wants to claim that a wheel size or electronic suspension or whatever is X% better empirically, how many of them would be willing to wager half that difference as a time penalty to level the field.

There was a bit of beer involved prior to this point, and one of the crew has recently made the jump to a 29er race bike which started the whole discussion.

Post ride Beer & Bench Racing is one of the few things right with the industry.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,067
10,632
AK
Don't read too deep into it haha. The boys were just saying if a company wants to claim that a wheel size or electronic suspension or whatever is X% better empirically, how many of them would be willing to wager half that difference as a time penalty to level the field.

There was a bit of beer involved prior to this point, and one of the crew has recently made the jump to a 29er race bike which started the whole discussion.
YOU MEAN LIKE ABSOLUTE BLACK OVAL CHAINRINGS!!?? They are up to 234% faster, tested by Absolute Black!
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,634
1,084
coloRADo
do you have men‘s health issues “down there“?
LOL No, yes, maybe. You may be thinking of "Men's Health". But no worries... I mean, I have been mtb'ing for over 25 years. Issues down there will happen... :D

It was actually in referral to the fact that BIKE Magazine is out of business, and for the subscribers, they compensated us with Men's Journal until the original BIKE subscription runs out.

This issue has Mathew McConaughey. So at least The Wife is stoked... :D
 

buckoW

Turbo Monkey
Mar 1, 2007
3,838
4,881
Champery, Switzerland
LOL No, yes, maybe. You may be thinking of "Men's Health". But no worries... I mean, I have been mtb'ing for over 25 years. Issues down there will happen... :D

It was actually in referral to the fact that BIKE Magazine is out of business, and for the subscribers, they compensated us with Men's Journal until the original BIKE subscription runs out.

This issue has Mathew McConaughey. So at least The Wife is stoked... :D
Haha, sweet trade! Mountain bikes are accessories for men like like a lap dog is for.....
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,675
7,033
So instead of moving to a bike with a sensible sized tire you can make your CX bike more comfortable.
Shockstop_2_-_opt_1800x@2x.gif
 
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Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,494
6,385
UK
So instead of moving to a bike with a sensible sized tire you can make your CX bike more comfortable.View attachment 156235
20 years back Giant's mid range road bike the OCR came with an adjustable quill stem in a similar vein. It wasn't exactly high end so anyone even vaguely into bikes would probably swap it out for a normal stem fairly quickly. Because of its ease of adjustability finding your most comfortable/efficient position was pretty simple and from that choosing a normal length/rise stem to match that position really easy.
Folk pay tons for a "bike fit" these days. Often needlessly.
 

trib

not worthy of a Rux.
Jun 22, 2009
1,636
640
20 years back Giant's mid range road bike the OCR came with an adjustable quill stem in a similar vein. It wasn't exactly high end so anyone even vaguely into bikes would probably swap it out for a normal stem fairly quickly. Because of its ease of adjustability finding your most comfortable/efficient position was pretty simple and from that choosing a normal length/rise stem to match that position really easy.
Folk pay tons for a "bike fit" these days. Often needlessly.
The redshift stem is a suspension stem, not an angle adjust unit. Still awful, but not quite in the vein you’re suggesting
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,672
26,912
media blackout
20 years back Giant's mid range road bike the OCR came with an adjustable quill stem in a similar vein. It wasn't exactly high end so anyone even vaguely into bikes would probably swap it out for a normal stem fairly quickly. Because of its ease of adjustability finding your most comfortable/efficient position was pretty simple and from that choosing a normal length/rise stem to match that position really easy.
Folk pay tons for a "bike fit" these days. Often needlessly.
Mid 00s trek hybrids had the same adjustable quill stem. The toothed wedge on the bottom.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,403
212
Vancouver
Maybe I just suck but what's the deal with gear ranges??

I spend 99% of my time in the 4 larger cogs, because well...I'm mountain biking so I have to climb up trails (unless I'm descending and leave the chain in the middle of the cassette somewhere). You'd think they'd design the cassettes to have smaller gaps in the larger cogs to give you more options for climbing as you get tired, or how steep and technical the climbs are.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,944
21,978
Sleazattle
Maybe I just suck but what's the deal with gear ranges??

I spend 99% of my time in the 4 larger cogs, because well...I'm mountain biking so I have to climb up trails (unless I'm descending and leave the chain in the middle of the cassette somewhere). You'd think they'd design the cassettes to have smaller gaps in the larger cogs to give you more options for climbing as you get tired, or how steep and technical the climbs are.

What cassette are you running? Shimano 12 speed has smaller jumps in the last few gears than SRAM does.

+5+6+6+6
vs

+4+4+6+8
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,067
10,632
AK
Maybe I just suck but what's the deal with gear ranges??

I spend 99% of my time in the 4 larger cogs, because well...I'm mountain biking so I have to climb up trails (unless I'm descending and leave the chain in the middle of the cassette somewhere). You'd think they'd design the cassettes to have smaller gaps in the larger cogs to give you more options for climbing as you get tired, or how steep and technical the climbs are.
Never really thought that on a ride. Might be a clearance issue with the spokes too? Also, the smaller gaps might already be on the larger cogs, because it takes more teeth to have the same % effect. A 9 vs an 11 is a radical difference.
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,636
998
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Never really thought that on a ride. Might be a clearance issue with the spokes too? Also, the smaller gaps might already be on the larger cogs, because it takes more teeth to have the same % effect. A 9 vs an 11 is a radical difference.
Yeah, my complaint is going from 10th to 11th gear is too much of a jump and often causes me to bog and go back down to 10th. I ride Sram 11 speed 11-42 cassettes. My guess is most people run a smaller chainring so the jump feels a little smaller.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,403
212
Vancouver
Take the Shimano XT 11-46 cassette for example (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46). I'd rather have a more even tooth numbering throughout instead of in the gears I rarely use. I find the jumps between 32, 37 and 46 are a little wide. It's not the end of the world but still...
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,589
2,021
Seattle
Take the Shimano XT 11-46 cassette for example (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46). I'd rather have a more even tooth numbering throughout instead of in the gears I rarely use. I find the jumps between 32, 37 and 46 are a little wide. It's not the end of the world but still...
The 46t XT is particularly bad on that front. When the 11 speed stuff launched, they only offered 40 and 42t versions. The 46t came later, and is the same thing as the 42 but with the 46t cog swapped on.
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,865
16,405
where the trails are
I use shimano 11-42 cassettes, plus a 1up 47T cog for my granny. 5 tooth jumps on 3 easiest gears is perfect for me. I wish 1up still made those I would have stockpiled a couple.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,584
12,414
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Take the Shimano XT 11-46 cassette for example (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46). I'd rather have a more even tooth numbering throughout instead of in the gears I rarely use. I find the jumps between 32, 37 and 46 are a little wide. It's not the end of the world but still...
The most practical and economical solution is to upgrade to 12 speed shimano, naturally.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
5,318
2,415
not in Whistler anymore :/
Take the Shimano XT 11-46 cassette for example (11-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-37-46). I'd rather have a more even tooth numbering throughout instead of in the gears I rarely use. I find the jumps between 32, 37 and 46 are a little wide. It's not the end of the world but still...
perfekt gravel cassette, with one bail out gear for the really steep bits. i rarely use the 46t or the 11t gear
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
just don’t go in all dry and use some lube

That's a fanboi video. The guy goes the distance on his accompanying blog post trying to save Shimano's ass because the clutch cover doesn't seal the way it should.


I read somewhere else (PB if memory serves me well) Shimano was shipping a replacement kit with a new clutch cover, the screws and a rubber gasket. Seems like the failure is happening to all the 12 speed RDs.
 
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Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,182
1,147
And then bitch about the insta-seizing clutch or the failing shifter...
Or how about how my fucking XTR cassette broke off a tooth on the 2nd ring within 100 miles, and the warranty replacement has about 4-5 shark fins on the 2nd & 3rd rings with 400 miles on it? Do they make them out of fucking cheese? My X01 Eagle cassette was >3,000 miles and looking good when I gave it to my brother-in-law.
 

slimshady

¡Mira, una ardilla!
Rear hubs have their fair share of issues also. At least, Deore and SLX ones. They develop play at the freehub and the parts marked with "do not lube" (pawls and engagement ring) seize if water gets in. My friend who is a REALLY competent bike mechanic and prefers Shimano over everything else is seriously disappointed with the 12-speed gruppos.

I told him Bill Gates is to blame, The Industry ™ has been screwing up us all since that asshole admitted back in 1998 they were shipping beta quality software and passing the burden of discovering bugs to the end users. If anything, one should stay off the first generation of any product, just to give the manufacturer time to iron out a couple of failures. At least the most obvious ones.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,403
212
Vancouver
The most practical and economical solution is to upgrade to 12 speed shimano, naturally.
That's the thing... if you have a 10 speed 11-46 cassette (only two options I'm aware of), there's no point in spending the money on 11 speed. 12 is the way to go.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,494
6,385
UK
The most practical and economical solution is actually for the rider to get fitter and stronger, then you can run the slightly better spaced 11 speed 11-42 (or even go back to far cheaper and more durable 10 speed 11-36).
But that might involve actually spending your time riding your bike rather than discussing the shortcomings of modern cassettes online. ;)