This is what's wrong with The Industry™
- Thread starter Electric_City
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I bought a few links from BETD for old specialized frames and think they came from the UK
I was thinking risse but they're hecka norcal.
I just remembered I still an old max backbone extruded FSR with a BETD chainstay on it (with Risse seatstays)
I need to build that bitch back up. That used to be my old jumpy bike, once I got the rear end to un-noodle.
I need to build that bitch back up. That used to be my old jumpy bike, once I got the rear end to un-noodle.
Great. Now we got SuperBoost M-16mm fine thread pedal axles coming
RISSE is the one. I thought they were LA-based. Well, I can buy a slow Motorcycle from them now....
"raspberry pie"
All 12" Worth....
My first suspension MTB had a Risse shock that was actually an integral part of the seatstays/frame. The whole back end of the bike was attached with a tiny main pivot on shitty polymer bushes and the top shock bolt (like M8 size tops). How that shock survived longer than the frame is beyond me.
Crap the shock on the back of that 140LBS electric Go-Ped looks the exact same. I bet that thing never heats up. The bolts going through it are the same size that holds your brake calipers on you know for convenience and all.....
reminds me a bit of the Titus racerx
had the same thought. someone local just offered one up for sale recently...
buddy of mine has one. A remarkably ok bike to this day.
how most of us survived that era on the sketchy hardware of the day is fairly amazing. unlike then, we take for granted these days that our [insert any frame or component] isn't likely to fail catastrophically.
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There was a version with a swing link that rectified the issue of the original Mac-strut design.
Absolutely. I broke either the frame or the fork on most of my first bikes. Cranks were commonplace and wheels were a consumable. I know we are supposed to be bitching about the industry in this thread but, they did eventually figure out how to make stuff last.
To pivot back to bitching: now that they figured out how to make stuff that does not constantly break, they had to find a way to still sell you periodic replacements. They needed a new standard way to boost sales.
I see what you did there...
Ime it wasn’t the diameter of the hardware that was the biggest problem, it was the length. Super long shock bolts would always bend, regardless of the grade and diameter. I guess you could go the Cessna route like with their 208s that were bending landing gear bolts and make them Ti? But the issue was design and only a few mfrs really understood it back then.
We still see a bunch of carbon frame failures, and carbon cranks, wheels, handlebars. If they’ve figured that out, there isn’t universal care or application of that knowledge.
Because they are overbuild to the point that even a 150 kg rider can huck a "superlight XC" bike to flat w/o it breaking. Thanks to people that do not get the "right tool for the job" idea most people are stuck with bikes that are heavier than they need to be.
What is wrong with the industry is that nobody wants to tell customers "this bike is not for you" when they are waving a bundle of cash in front of them. Make some truly niche bikes for those that want them and e.g. put a weight limit on the components/frame. If someone above the weight limit breaks them, tell them tough luck and don't cave in response to the social media fallout.
On the flip side, thank god parts don't have stupid rider weight limits anymore. Yeah bikes could be a lot lighter, but 150lb rider weight limits? Nah, just give me a 30lb trail bike instead.
Are we all really that much slower because of our ever so slightly heavier bikes? Nope. Do we get to ride more because cracked frames are more or less a thing of the past? Yes.
Are we all really that much slower because of our ever so slightly heavier bikes? Nope. Do we get to ride more because cracked frames are more or less a thing of the past? Yes.
i'll never forget a few years back when a guy came into a lbs around xmas time and specifically told them he wanted to order a nomad for his son. the shop guys then began to convince him that it was "too much bike" (which is why they never stock any, despite the fact that tons of people around here ride them) and tried to sell him a bronson or tallboy off the floor. i had to just leave.
don't tell bighitr. he rode XC on a DH bike.
Not everybody is obes..ahem, I mean muscular, so give me options. It is the same BS that a 150 cm rider has to buy a 29er these days just to get a modern bike. What we lost is diversity and options in the bike industry. In the old days there were plenty of hardcore frames and components while at the same time there were weight weenie options. Certain brands marketed directly towards the different groups of customers. These days I could not point out a brand that has a weight weenie or super durable/overbuild image, it is all the same. No character, the "looks like a Session" saying has a reason, don't you think? And it is not only limited to looks.
Now you do not have cracked frames anymore, but imagine how great the old days of fully rigid bikes were. No riding time wasted servicing suspension, disc brakes, dropper posts. Can I recommend a brakeless BMX to you, I heard they are super durable?
one thing i hate, looking at kids bikes.... 12" wheels, 16" wheels, 20" wheels, 24" wheels,...... then straight to 27.5" wheels. its almost like there could be another size in there. one that even already exists.
*yes, i know 18" and 22" bikes exists, they're just not prevalent enough to make it worthwhile.
*yes, i know 18" and 22" bikes exists, they're just not prevalent enough to make it worthwhile.
Do you know how many loyal customers the industry lost? If not for Covid they would be in deep shit right now. Most of my friends seriously into riding bikes do not like where the industry is heading and only reluctantly buy new bikes if their old ones get too clapped out. However, previously they would buy the high end models, now they buy the cheapest or second cheapest option and upgrade some of the essential parts "because the standards will change anyway". Others, myself included, only have bough used mountain bikes in the last years.
So from a business point of view, Covid and ebikes keep the industry booming while they lose the core customers that supported them for years. Let us see how this will pan out once all these new folks find the next cool sport/activity to try.
lets be fair, mountain biking isn't keeping the industry going either. even the golden road goose is putting out smaller eggs.
fat ppl got the message when i told them rapha only makes xxl clothing. should be possible with bikes too.
Are people still bitching about changing standards that last changed 7 years ago?
Bikes are one of the few consumer items that even have standards. The only standards with motorcycles and cars are tire sizes and gas fillers.
I for one am really pissed I can't use my box of broken derailleurs, fried bottom brackets, rigid seatposts, 120mm stems and vee brake pads on my new bike.
I do wish I could convert my old King hubs to boost, they were just getting broken in after 12 years of use.
Bikes are one of the few consumer items that even have standards. The only standards with motorcycles and cars are tire sizes and gas fillers.
I for one am really pissed I can't use my box of broken derailleurs, fried bottom brackets, rigid seatposts, 120mm stems and vee brake pads on my new bike.
I do wish I could convert my old King hubs to boost, they were just getting broken in after 12 years of use.
Better Boost Hub Conversion Kits
Convert your 15x100mm non-boost hubs to 15x110mm Boost standard so you can upgrade your fork without having to purchase a new wheel. Models available for DT-Swiss, Stans, Industry Nine, Hope & Chris King.
mrpbike.com
There are 2 handlebar mount diameter standards in moto, which is less than MTB.
Brakes are surprisingly interchangeable. Nissin and Brembo are almost entirely interchangeable with one another except for one caliper bolt pattern. It makes mix/match of different master cylinder piston/caliper piston sizes very easy to do. Rotor bolt patterns, unfortunately, are not interchangeable between manufacturers.
Chains have been the same since forever.
Batteries are mostly the same. Starter motor guts/brushes are all pretty much the same. Connectors and fasteners tend to be very common across the Japanese bikes. KTM's like to be special. Throttle bodies and carbs are made by someone else (Keihin/Mikuni) so they're pretty universal.
Front/rear sprockets, chainguides, axles, hubs, triple clamps, most forks, almost all shocks, etc unfortunately are all manufacturer specific. Those are a real pain in the dick.
It's about what you'd expect if the frame manufacturers were system-level integrators and had that level of pull with secondary suppliers.
I contrast to bikes, I can get spare parts from the manufacturer for a 20 year old motorcycle. If you make special parts and can provide them for a normal lifespan of a product then it is acceptable to have special parts. However, if you decide to come out with a new product every year with changing standards every 5 years and often cannot even provide spares for the last model year bike/part, then this is what is wrong with the industry!
There's an obligation in motor vehicles, at least in the US, to provide parts for X number of years after initial sale. Something like 15 years or 20 years? At which point you're screwed.
Still basically an order of magnitude longer than some mountain bikes.