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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

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dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
Say hello to your little friend Mr. Grizz.....View attachment 163982
I own a ruger alaska guide shorty 44mag... thing is not fun at all to shoot. Bought it for MT bear protection and luckily never had to use it. Thing causes more harm to the shooter than it does to what your shooting, since its so damn inaccurate. I now carry a FN 57 with custom military grade rounds- 21 shots instead of 6, all the muzzle velocity, punch power to get through a bears skull/ hide and accurate as can be.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,183
10,713
AK
I own a ruger alaska guide shorty 44mag... thing is not fun at all to shoot. Bought it for MT bear protection and luckily never had to use it. Thing causes more harm to the shooter than it does to what your shooting, since its so damn inaccurate. I now carry a FN 57 with custom military grade rounds- 21 shots instead of 6, all the muzzle velocity, punch power to get through a bears skull/ hide and accurate as can be.
You can get the military grade 5.7 rounds now? I know the older ones wouldn’t go through a standard bullet proof vest and even if they did, I’d still be a terrible weapon to try and stop a charging bear, ive seen local news stories of people emptying entire magazines of 5.56 to do it and eventually enough damage is caused, but stopping a charging bear is all about shattering the shoulder or something close to that, OR the same round in a vital organ, but that tiny round isn’t going to carry enough energy to do that. I’ll penetrate if it’s an AP version, but won’t cause the massive damage necessary. And if it doesn’t charge, then you usually have options, like turn around.

And yeah, I don’t get the point of massive calibers and like 2” barrels. It’s basically a belly-gun at that and effectiveness at any distance becomes poor. It loses tons of energy due to the short barrel, massive recoil, hard to aim, more inaccurate. Once you get out to 4-6” it at least gets reasonable. The extra weight doesn’t hurt either.
 
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dexter

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
3,053
99
Boise, Idaho
You can get the military grade 5.7 rounds now? I know the older ones wouldn’t go through a standard bullet proof vest and even if they did, I’d still be a terrible weapon to try and stop a charging bear, ive seen local news stories of people emptying entire magazines of 5.56 to do it and eventually enough damage is caused, but stopping a charging bear is all about shattering the shoulder or something close to that, OR the same round in a vital organ, but that tiny round isn’t going to carry enough energy to do that. I’ll penetrate if it’s an AP version, but won’t cause the massive damage necessary. And if it doesn’t charge, then you usually have options, like turn around.

And yeah, I don’t get the point of massive calibers and like 2” barrels. It’s basically a belly-gun at that and effectiveness at any distance becomes poor. It loses tons of energy due to the short barrel, massive recoil, hard to aim, more inaccurate. Once you get out to 4-6” it at least gets reasonable. The extra weight doesn’t hurt either.
Well technically you cannot get them as a civilian but....

I picked this gun up after chatting with a buddy who is traveling photographer in the fly fishing industry- he has seen that gun on the hips of fishing guides, private security contractors, and special forces everywhere (he also shoots a lot of 3M tactical material) . A lot of the guides in Russia are packing a shotgun and the FN 57 for brown bears and a handful of Alaska guides have as well. The theory is that the velocity of the round + armor piercing ammo+ accuracy + magazine capacity puts you in a much better position to make a good shot vs the larger, more cumbersome rounds. There have been a handful of Russian brown bears taken down with them over the past few years.

Lots of folks think a small caliber handgun will do fine against a bear and they are wrong. The FN packs some potent punch with the right round and can do some harm. Guns and bears are weird, 6 guys with hunting rifles emptying into one bear before it drops, then some guy with a 410 out pheasant hunting drops a griz at 10 yards charging him with one or two shots.

The short barreled guns are convenient for carry, but not for actual use. When I am in griz country its 99% fishing based and hauling a big gun around sucks. In CA while steelhead fishing I am hosed, its either a shotgun and lots of paperwork or bear spray and bear bangers. Wish I could get a shorty shotgun across the boarder, but same issue as the shorty pistol- hell to shoot especially in a dire situation.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,183
10,713
AK
Yeah, the 5.7 gun and caliber are widely known in Alaska. It’s also not a bear caliber that will shatter bone on a scale necessary to break a shoulder or stop a charging bear. This is not a caliber for that. It’s basically a weaker 5.56, especially with the much shorter barrel. This is not a good idea. Bear calibers are not small/light high velocity. They are large/heavy and medium velocity. Shotgun slugs are best, but that’s where it’s truly unwieldy to carry around a shotgun as well.

Even a .357 would be a better idea, there are a good deal of 4-6” barrel pistols in various calibers with decent ballistics. The model 69 is just one. Without gloves it’s not “comfortable” to shoot, but with light riding gloves it’s fine at the range and then in a real situation I’m sure I won’t care.

If you are going to bring a caliber as ineffective as 5.7 (at big game) there’s a lot more stuff you should be bringing before that, like extra food, hatchet, etc..

Big game are not like humans. Much thicker skulls and bones. Much thicker muscles and skin. They don’t “care” if you shoot them a few times, unless disabled, they are going to still be coming. For humans, you either hit a primary vital organ or cause loss of blood pressure due to an expanding round (pistol) or supersonic shockwave (rifle). But these same rounds won’t do the same thing to big game. Unless it’s a heavier rifle round, like .308 or 300 mag or a bigger and stronger handgun round, like 44 mag and even then you are looking for the power to stop a charging bear, as in break bones, not hopefully hit the head square on a moving target.

hitting a charging bear in the head square at 25 or 50 feet is more fantasy than reality IME training with pistols.
 
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ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,003
708
SLO
hitting a charging bear in the head square at 25 or 50 feet is more fantasy than reality IME training with pistols.

These are accurate out to about 125-150 yards they are big but will stop large animals. Maybe we need a Barrelli shotty short film...

Screen Shot 2021-09-01 at 4.36.23 PM.png
 
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SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,645
1,094
coloRADo
Oh South Park, how would I know the difference between right and wrong without you? :D

Did we already talk about Casa Bonita? Yeah, it's a real place. Not too far from good mtb trails on the front range. Keep that in your back pocket when picking up your Ridegg, Yeti or Commi :)
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,645
1,094
coloRADo
I think you meant the secret trails in Limon.
I thought I said "good" not "great" :)

I remember doing the Hogback to [Dave] Mathews Winters aka Red Rocks on a weekend and maybe see 1 other trail user. Ahhhh....those were the days...

Have you heard about the sweet trails in Trinidad? There's no casa bonita down there, but ya shhh :D
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
2,074
1,442
SWE
Rather nicely summarised, I would say! :busted:
Screenshot_20210906-195753_Chrome.jpg


I don't get the need for lockout on a 160mm bike... not entirely sure that it is something wrong with the industry tho? Might be something wrong with the customers?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
22,020
21,570
Canaderp

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,886
27,073
media blackout
just got an email blast from my local bike park. next years seasons pass preseason price is up $100 from $200 to $300. they added 2 new partial trails this year.
 
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canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
22,020
21,570
Canaderp
Buddy broke his Slash.
Was looking at a replacement.
9K Cdn with SLX brakes, and the fork was a Select level Zeb.
Full on AXS version was over 14K :disgust:.
FREAKING OUT OF CONTROL!

Thats as bad as builds being labeled as "XT" or "XO", but if you look closer its just the derailleur and shifter that are said level, the cassette and others are usually cheaped out on.

Another example; the Norco Range C1. A pretty sweet bike. But for retail of $10999.00, they do dirty and slip in a GX cassette. Come on, really?

Range C1 2022 | Norco

Ibis Ripmo XO1 build, fantastic for $8099. Too bad it has a GX cassette.

 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,886
27,073
media blackout
honestly, given those price points for those build kits, i would wager the frame alone with battery/motor would come in close to 8 grand. point of reference: the C1 series SB150 frame retails for $6300.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,088
1,235
El Lay
Those have been available for years.

Here's some links:

That does bother me.

How long till someone makes a throttle only switch to put on a ebike so we can have mx bike level speed on mountain bike trails.
 

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,378
157
Spreckels, CA
Those have been available for years.

Here's some links:
And it doesn't get you anywhere near moto performance unless you want your entire battery to last about 10 minutes.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
22,020
21,570
Canaderp
you must be living under a rock if you have to be reminded of current supply chain issues.
How long can companies keep living off of that excuse? It doesn't look like that is what is happening here.

"oh sorry, we can't get xyxz part, so here is a lower cost one, that we can get, but don't worry, you're still paying for the more expensive one!"

Even if it is a valid excuse and they cannot get the desired parts, the cost of the bike should reflect that.

And if I read into it correctly, they are using bog standard Shimano batteries and motors. So they will have next to no R&D costs for that, as its essentially already been outsourced and produced; all they have to do it make sure their bolts holes line up.

There is no question that if you buy a Yeti, a portion of your money is paying for the Yeti name. Same thing with Santa Cruz. And props to them for that, they've built a solid customer and reputation base, but at least give a little more value for what people are paying. :)
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,886
27,073
media blackout
How long can companies keep living off of that excuse? It doesn't look like that is what is happening here.

"oh sorry, we can't get xyxz part, so here is a lower cost one, that we can get, but don't worry, you're still paying for the more expensive one!"

Even if it is a valid excuse and they cannot get the desired parts, the cost of the bike should reflect that.

And if I read into it correctly, they are using bog standard Shimano batteries and motors. So they will have next to no R&D costs for that, as its essentially already been outsourced and produced; all they have to do it make sure their bolts holes line up.

There is no question that if you buy a Yeti, a portion of your money is paying for the Yeti name. Same thing with Santa Cruz. And props to them for that, they've built a solid customer and reputation base, but at least give a little more value for what people are paying. :)
a $2k build kit is a $2k built kit, regardless of whether you put it on a $2k frame or an $8k frame.