[Lelandjt]

The e-bikes I've seen are limited to either 23 or 28 mph. Either is fast enough for a shitty rider to get in over their head. Combine that with the weight and I'm not at all surprised to hear of accidents. That's why Summit County banned them from the rec paths.

 

[Gary]

Dude, bypass that shit. Everyone does.

Eh?

 

[sethimus]

apparently it's not the PWR but the weight of the bikes.
“We should not underestimate how many accidents happen among the elderly when getting on and off an e-bike. Such a bicycle is heavier than a regular one. Sometimes the problem starts because some older people do not take into account that their own physical possibilities are reduced.”
I'm puzzled as to why folk are dying while getting on and off their bikes though.

BTW. Have you actually ridden an E-bike?

the one i rode the other day was just 14kg...

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Eh?

People will modify bikes to circumvent speed and power limitations. I have a rather chubby friend who has been doing that on the street for a couple of years.

 

[FlipSide]

People will modify bikes to circumvent speed and power limitations. I have a rather chubby friend who has been doing that on the street for a couple of years.

I don't get the reasoning here...don't you think it's a bit over the top to adopt a strong stance against something just because it can potentially be modified to potentially be unlawful? It's particularly ironic coming from mountainbikers, who are practicing a sport largely developed through illegal access.

People get hurt and (unfortunately) some even die riding regular bikes...what's the logic behind forbidding people to ride eBikes in order to prevent injuries? People can ride a street motorcycle without a helmet in several states FFS.

I find you have several good arguments against eBikes in the US (mainly regarding trail access), but you should stick to them and not try to attack eBikes from every possible angle, including weaker ones.

Disclaimer: I don't own an eBike.

 

[Sandwich]

no desire for an ebike for trail, but I may get one to ride to work. being able to cycle commute in fair weather without needing a shower would be a treat.

 

[djjohnr]

Got an 8x10 Deardorff?

Or a tasty pre-ww2 field 5x7 Linhof?

Nice! Nope, had a couple of Toyo 45s, first a CF and then an A. Sold it off after my second kid was born and bought a DSLR. Just didn’t have the time to keep my technique second nature and wound up missing the light on some shots (I shoot landscape). When the kids are a little older I’ll go back to it, shooting on a dslr isn’t nearly as satisfying. Fvck load cheaper tho.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I don't get the reasoning here...don't you think it's a bit over the top to adopt a strong stance against something just because it can potentially be modified to potentially be unlawful? It's particularly ironic coming from mountainbikers, who are practicing a sport largely developed through illegal access.

People get hurt and (unfortunately) some even die riding regular bikes...what's the logic behind forbidding people to ride eBikes in order to prevent injuries? People can ride a street motorcycle without a helmet in several states FFS.

I find you have several good arguments against eBikes in the US (mainly regarding trail access), but you should stick to them and not try to attack eBikes from every possible angle, including weaker ones.

Disclaimer: I don't own an eBike.

My concern with mods has to do with trail damage, not with the Darwin effect.

 

[FlipSide]

My concern with mods has to do with trail damage, not with the Darwin effect.

OK, I understand. My comment on the Darwin was more directed toward Lelandjt.

I wouldn't be too concerned about this TBH. I doubt the modern eBikes (with the motor near the BB) can be modified in such a way to roost the fuck out of trails and do substantial damage. Also, since most of these are using Plus tires with tons of traction, I would not be surprised if the damage to the trails is less than that from narrow tires with poor traction...and considerably less than that from Sam Hill wannabee "drifting" wherever they can or n00bs skidding everywhere.

I think one valid point is that an eBike will likely cover longer distances for the same effort from the rider and I would totally be in favor of more expensive access tickets to eBikers for bike parks.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

OK, I understand. My comment on the Darwin was more directed toward Lelandjt.

I wouldn't be too concerned about this TBH. I doubt the modern eBikes (with the motor near the BB) can be modified in such a way to roost the fuck out of trail and do substantial damage. Also, since most of these are using Plus tires with tons of traction, I would not be surprised if the damage to the trails is less than that from narrow tires with poor traction...and considerably less than that from Sam Hill wannabee "drifting" wherever they can or n00bs skidding everywhere.

I think one valid point is that an eBike will likely cover longer distances for the same effort from the rider and I would totally be in favor of more expensive access tickets to eBikers for bike parks.

I think we're pretty much in the same place on this.

 

[kidwoo]

I wouldn't be too concerned about this TBH. I doubt the modern eBikes (with the motor near the BB) can be modified in such a way to roost the fuck out of trails and do substantial damage.

Maybe not but putting more hacks on trails definitely does. I'm already seeing it.

 

[StiHacka]

Have you ever

prolly STFU then. You do realise they are limited to way lower speeds and wattage than any half decent rider can put out, eh?


Nothing to do with the bikes tho, eh?

Have you ever ridden a horse?

 

[Gary]

the one i rode the other day was just 14kg...

That'd be pretty cool if it wasn't limited to less than any half decent roadie can average for 3 hours or so.

 

[Gary]

My concern with mods has to do with trail damage, not with the Darwin effect.

What trail damage?

 

[Gary]

Have you ever ridden a horse?

No. Those things actually do cause ridiculous amounts of trail damage.

 

[rockofullr]

The e-bikes I've seen are limited to either 23 or 28 mph. Either is fast enough for a shitty rider to get in over their head. Combine that with the weight and I'm not at all surprised to hear of accidents. That's why Summit County banned them from the rec paths.

Yup. Saw a girl (did not look like an experienced rider) get ambulanced out of Sea Otter cause she came into a downhill turn too hot on an E-bike. But for street driving who cares, they could buy a scooter and wreck even harder.

Maybe not but putting more hacks on trails definitely does. I'm already seeing it.

Luckily I'm also starting to seemore signs at trail heads telling e-bikes to fuck the fuck off. They had new ones at Fort Ord that weren't there last year. I also heckle them on the trails so they feel bad about their life choices.

But as I have said before I don't give a shit if you ride an e-bike on the street or in an OHV area. Just don't wanna see you on the human powered trails.

 

[Gary]

I think one valid point is that an eBike will likely cover longer distances for the same effort from the rider and I would totally be in favor of more expensive access tickets to eBikers for bike parks.

This is massively invalid for my use TBH.
My Emtb can pretty much only do 4000ft of fireroad/bridleway (nontechnical) climbing. That's right around half of what I'd happily do on a normal bike in an all day ride. The difference it makes is the time I can now do rides in. Not the distances.
for example:
I'm just back from an after work ride on steep DH/Enduro tracks. I did 4x climbs/descents. I used boost (full power) for all climbing and only got 3250ft and 10.5miles out of the battery before it was done. or 6miles and 3250ft of climbing. (The descents were steep and technical. so no battery use there).
This entire ride took me 1hr 10min. The E-bike basically halves my climbing time. not the effort. my climbing effort was right around what it would normally be.
I'd already ridden two other bikes today. One before work to take my daughter to School and another to lead/guide a kids mtb ride in the city. I didn't really want to ride for much more than an hour and a half tonight. If I'd been on a normal bike it simply would not have been worth the drive to the hill for that short a ride.

 

[kidwoo]

Yup. Saw a girl (did not look like an experienced rider) get ambulanced out of Sea Otter cause she came into a downhill turn too hot on an E-bike. But for street driving who cares, they could buy a scooter and wreck even harder.



Luckily I'm also starting to seemore signs at trail heads telling e-bikes to fuck the fuck off. They had new ones at Fort Ord that weren't there last year. I also heckle them on the trails so they feel bad about their life choices.

But as I have said before I don't give a shit if you ride an e-bike on the street or in an OHV area. Just don't wanna see you on the human powered trails.

I don't even really care if they're on trails from a philosophical standpoint. I just hate that companies are trying so hard to sell the next cool shit that they're convincing people who have otherwise no interest in mountainbiking to go buy one of these things and go fuck themselves up. They're dumb. Just sell/ride motorcycles. For every 'benefit' anyone ever can mention for these things, a trials moto punches all that reasoning in the pussy.

They even got gary. He's riding around on this piece of shit neutered motorcycle trying to convince himself he's riding a bicycle.

 

[StiHacka]

I just hate that companies are trying so hard to sell the next cool shit that they're convincing people who have otherwise no interest in mountainbiking to go buy one of these things and go fuck themselves up.

^ this x eleventy billionty

 

[rockofullr]

I don't even really care if they're on trails from a philosophical standpoint

I do. If it's not authorized for motor vehicles then don't take your fucking vehicle with a motor on it.

 

[Gary]

They even got Gary. He's riding around on this piece of shit neutered motorcycle trying to convince himself he's riding a bicycle.

haha...
I ride motorcyles off road too. it's absolutely fuck all like one.
What it is like is a very capable 170mm enduro mtb only 15lb heavier but that 15lb lump houses a FFWD button for all those shitty bits Enduro wannabees seem to love sharing with each other but I really don't. It also means on busy days I can climb by them without listening to too much of their inane golf clubhouse chat.

Not that you care but It's annoyingly just as fast a descender as my Capra but I'm learning that I have to ride it slightly differently to get the most out of it. Throwing it around like and popping off everything like I would on an Endurobike or light DH bike is way more tiring (Oh RLY?). braking zones are slightly earlier and I don't like jumping it nearly as much but it plows like a DH bike and holds momentum better than any Enduro bike.
I am blessed (fairly) locally with litterally hundreds of world class descents which are all non-lift assisted and I'm kinda over hours and hours of climbing to do a few descents.

 

[kidwoo]

Not that you care but It's annoyingly just as fast a descender as my Capra

Well that's good to hear. I'd think you'd have to ride it slightly differently to get the most out of it. Throwing it around like and popping off everything like you would on an Endurobike or light DH bike seems way more tiring, with braking zones slightly earlier and not very fun jumping it.

but I'm learning that I have to ride it slightly differently to get the most out of it. Throwing it around like and popping off everything like I would on an Endurobike or light DH bike is way more tiring (Oh RLY?). braking zones are slightly earlier and I don't like jumping it nearly as much

.....hey wait a minute

 

[kidwoo]

I do. If it's not authorized for motor vehicles then don't take your fucking vehicle with a motor on it.

you've seen how "mountainbikers™" buld trails these days though.

Most eroded, rutted moto trails are way more fucking fun. I want 10,000 moto riders on every trail up here from snow melt to dry off. Then exactly zero moto riders once it's dry.


That same foot stomping is what the sierra club thinks about your mountain bike.

You also live in a much more populated area than I do. Although your population becomes my population for a few weeks out of the year.......

 

[SkaredShtles]

I do. If it's not authorized for motor vehicles then don't take your fucking vehicle with a motor on it.

This. There are trails around where you can take you motorized vehicle. Ride there. Non-motorized, trail, however? NO MOTORS. It really *seems* simple...

 

[rockofullr]

Most eroded, rutted moto trails are way more fucking fun. I want 10,000 moto riders on every trail up here from snow melt to dry off. Then exactly zero moto riders once it's dry.

Spent Sunday shuttling the Rock Creek OHV area in Georgetown. Those trails are mega blown out. Just loose rocks and ruts for miles at a time with some fun flowy sections thrown in to keep the stoke high. I assume you've made it out there?

 

[rockofullr]

Not that you care but It's annoyingly just as fast a descender as my Capra

You're riding that Capra wrong

 

[toodles]

I doubt the modern eBikes (with the motor near the BB) can be modified in such a way to roost the fuck out of trails and do substantial damage. Also, since most of these are using Plus tires with tons of traction, I would not be surprised if the damage to the trails is less than that from narrow tires with poor traction....

Nah man, they can do line-locks and stuff. Have you guys even ridden with people on them? You can do burnouts for sure. It's the first thing I was doing when I demo'ed an unmodified e-bike. The modified ones are heaps better for it.

They make it a cinch to get back to the top very easily, but they're totally capable of wrecking shit in the wrong hands. It's what I'd do if I had one. My biggest complaint is they encourage a bunch of squids to make it all the way out to the good trails that they normally wouldn't get to. Plus they're heavy as sh!t so you'll notice corners getting wider and wider as people try to get them around. Probably also a shift in obstacles on trails because they're heavy and hard to pop up onto features.

I don't really give a crap if you choose to run an e-bike (hell I kinda want one for my old dad). But its gonna suck when people want trails modded to suit them. Or if they collide with a walker and kill them and get the trails shut down. We've already seen a couple of riding venues shut down for all riders due to e-bike concerns. Some of the other trail centres charge double entry for e-bikes which I think is fair.

@Gary - you can get bypass chips or speed sensor tricking plugs to get rid of the limiters. It's literally the first step to owning an e-bike (apart from handing in your man card). 25kph is the assist cut-off in Australia and most roadie commuters can do 40 anyway. If you get the simplest bypasses they half the signal so your cut-out becomes 50kph.

 

[Gary]

@Gary - you can get bypass chips or speed sensor tricking plugs to get rid of the limiters. It's literally the first step to owning an e-bike (apart from handing in your man card). 25kph is the assist cut-off in Australia and most roadie commuters can do 40 anyway. If you get the simplest bypasses they half the signal so your cut-out becomes 50kph.

Do you know if the power still comes in the same? or is that delayed from running one of these things?
I haven't even worked out how all the sensors work with regards to how the shimano motor adds power in. but it's definitely something to do with gearing/cadence.
Mine's 15mph... fucking stupid really when you're riding anything flat/smooth it might as well be off.

 

[jstuhlman]

Spent Sunday shuttling the Rock Creek OHV area in Georgetown. Those trails are mega blown out. Just loose rocks and ruts for miles at a time with some fun flowy sections thrown in to keep the stoke high. I assume you've made it out there?

there’s an ohv system at the base of the part of pisgah we like to ride in. it’s maybe only a 1200’ descent, but man is it fun. we used to hit em in VA in the late 90s too. It’s always awesome to see the looks of shock on their faces when they see you on “their” trails-like you’re batshit crazy...it’s even funner when you pass them when you’re both going down.

 

[toodles]

Do you know if the power still comes in the same? or is that delayed from running one of these things?
I haven't even worked out how all the sensors work with regards to how the shimano motor adds power in. but it's definitely something to do with gearing/cadence.
Mine's 15mph... fucking stupid really when you're riding anything flat/smooth it might as well be off.

Dunno about the Shimano ones. Most of the stuff here is Bosch.

 

[kidwoo]

Spent Sunday shuttling the Rock Creek OHV area in Georgetown. Those trails are mega blown out. Just loose rocks and ruts for miles at a time with some fun flowy sections thrown in to keep the stoke high. I assume you've made it out there?

Man, I used to drive by that place all the time for work. I've never ridden it though. I'd always assumed it was just typical xc moto trails that probably don't have any sustained descending. I know it's kind of become a new hot spot for bikes. Holler next time you head out there, we can meet up. But that's exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about. I'd rather ride stuff like that than bermed up bullshit any day of the week.

 

[Gary]

.....hey wait a minute

I have 12 bikes man. No two ride exactly the same. Nevermind all of them. That would be retarded.

 

[Gary]

Dunno about the Shimano ones. Most of the stuff here is Bosch.

All the info I've seen on the mod devices has been from sellers. be nice to hear from someone who has tried them.

 

[HAB]

you've seen how "mountainbikers™" buld trails these days though.

All of the best trails at a certain local mountain are hiking trails. Not the ones built by "mountain bikers" for mountain bikers. It's depressing.

 

[Jm_]

Spent Sunday shuttling the Rock Creek OHV area in Georgetown. Those trails are mega blown out. Just loose rocks and ruts for miles at a time with some fun flowy sections thrown in to keep the stoke high. I assume you've made it out there?

Have done...like 20 years ago.

 

[Lelandjt]

the one i rode the other day was just 14kg...

That's a pretty sweet commuter. Needs Ti cranks and pedals but I'd ride one if I lived farther from work.

 

[mykel]

+1 for dirtbike trails and outdoor Moto tracks.
Twas where I learnt to ride in the early 70's.

 

[StiHacka]

All of the best trails at a certain local mountain are hiking trails. Not the ones built by "mountain bikers" for mountain bikers. It's depressing.

 

[jstuhlman]

All of the best trails at a certain local mountain are hiking trails. Not the ones built by "mountain bikers" for mountain bikers. It's depressing.

this is pisgah

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

True story, I passed a guy WALKING his ebike up a hill on my ride last night.