And see. One zoolander quote and we no longer have to argue.
This is what's wrong with The Industry™
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This is true. The main problem for our industry though is our gear tends to wear our/break more than in other hobbies. I mean sure if you buy a sturdy frame and suspension they could last you a lifetime but the risk of a crash where you need parts replacing.
Though generally it's a bigger trend you see everywhere where a product that 10-20 years ago would be top of the line for a company now has 2 super premium tiers above it. This is why we have multiple companies offering multiple bilion dollar cars and this is why you used to have only a few high end companies on the market and now it seems like at least for components high end is 80% of new companies being started.
Though I'm all up for more coverage on people working with that they have. It's always super impressive to see what people can do with limited resources even if it's a bit behind big money projects. The issue is a lot of sponsored riders are part of the industry so they know people on big sites. Random guy doing something cool on the side might not have the same access and it will take time for him to break through.
*takes bong hit* maybe the industry only sponsors winning riders because they don't want us to see someone on the podium on tech from 5 years ago....
this is why denim destroyer no longer competes. The MTB Garment industry "took care of him"...
(In all honesty tho I expect 29ers/mullets to be faster than 27.5 so 5 year old gear loses on that alone)
I'm glad he's doing well even if it ruins my conspiracy theory. Are the restaurants denim themed?
I'm not arguing.
The clocks have changed here so it is now coming into panto season though.
They are generally well engineered and mostly bullshit free frames - no pressfit BB, reasonable internal cable routing without the headset bullshit, standard sized shocks that don't get destroyed by shitty frame design, no bullshitery a'la Trek knockblock. I like the internal lubing of the lower link bearings via a zerk fitting, and the easy servicing of the links and bearings is a cherry on top.
Apple is full of proprietary shit, SC sticks with the good industry standards.
Only non-pricing downside of SC to me is that they always run internal headsets.
I think it’s more like girlfriends…no matter how good your current one is you can’t help wondering if another one rides better
sc enjoyer here too for all the reasons others stated. altough they weren't super cool to deal with when i cracked my first nomad frame at the very beginning of the pandemic, the replacement i eventually got has been great. for everything from local xc to lift served at snowshoe to long days in the hills. i typically just upgrade a bit at a time and swap things over when they break...heck, my uzzi worked and therefore i rode it for a solid 7-8 years...
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Knödel themed. The one in Zurich is next to my workplace, good food.
Here's something that you'll like. In 2017 when I was looking at the Spartan there were 2 models that caught my attention- "Spartan Carbon GX" $4,999 and the "Spartan Carbon XT" $5,999 as per devincis website. Fwiw, the "XT" only had an XT rear derailleur.
The differences in the build was only several components. The frame, fork, rear shock, bar, stem, saddle, wheels and tires were all the same. The dropper was different. The GX had an FSA Gravity and the XT had a reverb. I strongly question which one of these 2 droppers is an upgrade compared to the other.
GX-
Sram guide R brakes ($160)
GX shifter ($47)
GX Derailleur ($115)
RF Aeffect Cranks ($130)
Sram cassette 11spd ($150)
Total $602
"XT"
SLX brakes ($240)
SLX shifter ($40)
XT derailleur ($65)
SLX cranks ($105)
SLX cassette ($80)
Total $530
The droppers aren't included in the comparison cause I don't know if the FSA was an OEM or not and don't recall the retail of either back then. But the dropper wasn't worth $1,072 difference.
Point is the "XT" retailed for $1,000 more, but cost less to build.
2017 Devinci Spartan Carbon GX Bike
Reviews, ratings, specifications, weight, price and more for the 2017 Devinci Spartan Carbon GX Bike
2017 Devinci Spartan Carbon SLX/XT
Reviews, ratings, specifications, weight, price and more for the 2017 Devinci Spartan Carbon SLX/XT
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For sure. That's why we sell SC and Ibis.
That is a dead on take. They're no longer for me (heavy ugly frames) but remain incredibly popular among our customers. Scotts are perfect for me but I recognize they aren't for everyone.
Maybe just pertains to the sort of rider who's afraid of maintenance but over here I've found Santa Cruz frames to go through bearings faster than many other brands. Ironically especially the lower linkage bearings with the grease port. due in part I'm sure to the bearings being unsealed on one side and very few owners even owning a grease gun let alone periodically using it. I'd probably also put the premature wear down to the actual pivot hardware design and suspension layout. (many owners tend not to know how the hardware actually works).
But having said that bearing replacement is a fairly easy and pain free experience with all bearings situated in the easily removable links. And with bearings being free for the life of the frame('s first owner) and often supplied with new spacers it's really not a bad trade off in the grand scheme of things.
For all I know though, the besrings might actually last a decent amount longer in a drier climate or with owners who treat their bikes a bit better.
But having said that bearing replacement is a fairly easy and pain free experience with all bearings situated in the easily removable links. And with bearings being free for the life of the frame('s first owner) and often supplied with new spacers it's really not a bad trade off in the grand scheme of things.
For all I know though, the besrings might actually last a decent amount longer in a drier climate or with owners who treat their bikes a bit better.
People who don't service their bearings every couple of months get what they deserve on any bike. It took me less than 20 minutes to clean and relube bearings in both links during a lunch break today.
A lot of Santa Cruz riders around here are also roadies, so contrary to your facts, they most likely do lube and polish their balls.
Nttawwt.
The bearings girlfriend's on the girlfriend's bike has been fine and we don't maintain the unsealed lower ones - beyond maybe a yearly tear down and repacking with grease. It's the little ones on the upper link that go to trash quickly.
But that's a common thing, I find. The smaller the bearing, no matter the frame, it'll always go first.
Nttawwt.
The bearings girlfriend's on the girlfriend's bike has been fine and we don't maintain the unsealed lower ones - beyond maybe a yearly tear down and repacking with grease. It's the little ones on the upper link that go to trash quickly.
But that's a common thing, I find. The smaller the bearing, no matter the frame, it'll always go first.
Counter argument - when I had a Mojo HD, the massive double-row bearings in the lower link shat the bed every 3-6 months. Those just had to be replaced with new ones. All the smaller bearings lasted for years with proper maintenance.
My new frame has a Cane Creek headset in the pivot, I had a giggle when I saw it, not sure how it will last.
~2800mm/yr of precip here in Squamish, and aforementioned blasting the eff out of my bike with a hose frequently, mine lasted 3 seasons before they were pooched.
There's been a couple like, have always wondered; is it like two top or bottom cups paired together or a straight up top and bottom proper headset?
I guess you're saying your bearings have lasted well... and that's great. I'm only going anecdotally on the Santa cruz frame bearing replacements I've done over the last 4 or so years. (maybe only 20 but definitely a few requiring new bearings over a reletaviely short period)
Out of interest what exactly does
A season to me would mean 3 months and I know plenty folk with a decent high end mtb that would rarely be ridden more than 15 miles a ride and maybe 10 times in 3 months. Possibly less.
Ps. That's fucking wet. Have you considered a canoe
Out of interest what exactly does
mean?
A season to me would mean 3 months and I know plenty folk with a decent high end mtb that would rarely be ridden more than 15 miles a ride and maybe 10 times in 3 months. Possibly less.
Ps. That's fucking wet. Have you considered a canoe
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I assume two tops, I really hope there's a star nut on either side, that would be fun.
I always thought a Bottom bracket made the most sense but just using the RH threaded cups.
EDIT- A Headset is probably better for load rating and sealing but I like being able to screw things in.
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sorry, meant years essentially. Plenty of friends and acquaintences on SCB too that also don't have to replace bearings frequently, although I understand that there are different perspectives out there, just offering my data point.
And for the record, we do have a canoe! haha
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But you don’t ride hard or frequently. At least not in comparison to those who rode in the land of lochs.
just ask Gary for confirmation.
Ah.. Ok.
So when you say "Season". In Squamish does that mean you have an off season due to snow or cold? Or do you guys still ride all year round?
Sorry. Never been.
I generally ski in the winter, and ride much less. Squamish is sea level, last winter we had a couple months where trails were mostly unrideable due to snow, although many years lower elevation trails are rideable year round.
Sorry but no. Not for the price. If it's a premium product and as we talked "apple of bikes' this means it's set and forget. Less work. Rich 40+ year old dudes don't have the time, they have the money. Bearings can last longer. My old Banshee Legend had idiot proof bearings (yes I know other banshees at the time didn't). If I was going to pay extra for a frame I want less work not more.
@Gary out of curiosity. Are there any companies that do well with the not so dry weather you get in your area?
Naah they don't do it themselves. That's why they have those roadie meets. To help friends in need.
High-end bikes need more maintenance, that is a fact. Similar to e.g. high-performance cars. If you can do it yourself, great, if not, you have to pay your trusty LBS. True trouble-free beater bikes are ususally mid-spec, mid weight.
High End cars need more performance because the parts that require more maintenance offer more performance. What performance benefits SC bearings offer over my old Banshee? Not a valid comparison here. SC bearings are not magical, they don't result in a significantly faster bike.
Naw, just shit designed stuff, like Ferraris that you gotta drop the engine out of to change the oil or Audis with the timing belt in the rear instead of the front. You also look up some of that stuff with those exotic engine and see what their intervals are for certain components. Some of it is absolutely ridiculous, like every few hundred hours do this or that, spend lots of money and car-downtime.
Maybe not that Ferraris are "shit designed", but they'll go after performance with compromises as far as engine and drivetrain stuff. And then they are beat around a track by a 911 GT3 or Turbo. And then the reviewers say "but the sound" or something...
But, my pushrod LT1 with one of the stiffest chassis ever will punch way beyond it's price-class and shame cars on the track that cost 2-3x, all with no special maintenance or excessive requirements. In fact, I go beat on it during races time after time and it just asks for more. Porsche tends to have fairly similar design philosophy, where you can go beat on any of them racing, from a macan GTS to a 911, all day long and they just ask for more. If they design it right, you can have your cake and eat it too. You don't *have* to have more maintenance necessarily. You just need the entire package designed well.
The bicycle industry on the other hand is full of retard rejects using hope as quality control when specs and manufacturing are outsourced. Dave turner said the best setup would be tapered bearings, and then I say tapered bearings with grease ports, just like what a lot of automotive/industrial applications have, would be the best. If you had the ability to run a bearing with that lateral support and could keep it full of grease...and it was large enough for the actual forces, then I reckon we'd be sitting pretty nicely and bearing changes would be rare. Dave relented to the next-best of Igus bushing with grease ports, despite requiring moar better tolerances for alignment of the pivots, given the limited rotation of bicycle suspension. With fairly tight control on manufacturing, he could get away with it. Will you find ball bearings on the suspension on a car/truck? Nope. What they call a "bearing" is a bushing usually, as in bushings are a type of bearing. So my Pivot does pretty well over time, I've replaced all the bearings, but the bottom link ones in the frame have really small bearings, doubled up on both sides (XC frame too), but due to size restrictions they probably had to do the double-bearing thing. Then you get the ridiculous proprietary "hat" bearings with the extended inner lip that only enduo makes that are all the rage right now (which the pivot has a couple). And they shouldn't be goddam ball bearings in the first place. It's a shit-fest IMO on most bikes. What you are getting is nowhere near as good as what is possible and daresay normal in other applications.
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Apart from certain parts of the West of Scotland it's not actually all that wet here but weather/rainfall is quite unpredictable season to season (Autumn, Winter, Spring, Summer). and I think the fact that most keen Scots/UK mtbers have no off season and ride all year round no matter what the weather is what makes the difference.
Locally here and the tweed valley (Scotland's busiest most popular mtb area just 40 miles away) precipitation is 1/3 of what @FlipFantasia has to contend with in Squamish
I'm not sure what you mean about companies doing well. RRP and Mudhugger certainly do with mudguards. As do Fenwicks and Muc off with their cleaning products and lubes. And cycle clothing companise proibably do too.
I wrench part time at a mate's shop and we do a lot of suspension servicing and frame bearing replacement.
I'm fairly certain some UK riders choose Orange bikes because they believe their two bearing frame design is less maintenance. Apart from blind patriotism and reasonable pricing (that's long gone tho) I honestly see no other reason that company has done so well. Sketchy conditions also means mtb tyre companies do well. The biking scene over her has become massive over the last few years. turnover of high end bikes (and plastic protective stickers
for them) has increased. The tweed Valley is absolutely rammed with groups of Enduro'd up to fuck riders every weekend and TBH is one of the reason's that puts me off going there as often.This road (1:50) is a main road to Edinburgh and you used to be lucky if you ever saw an mtb on it.
FWIW there's a good condition shared off road path at the edge of the forest just 20 meters away from them that goes all the way from the centre of the town to the bottom of the first climb they're all heading to.
The video is worth a watch though. and gives a decent interpretation of the local trails. (there are litterally hundreds of great trails in the area)
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I'd disagree.
high end FS mtbs have all the same components as lower/mid range bikes.
the difference is high end bikes often tend to GET more maintenance. Whereas low/mid range bikes are often simply ridden to destruction. and only "repaired" when they STOP functioning.