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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

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norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,503
1,719
Warsaw :/
I don't like helmets at all so rarely pay much attention to what actual brand or model helmet anyone wears. Nevermind folk riding UPHILL in a full face. but the lack of awareness from some folk wearing them has definitely become a way more common occurence than meeting anyone with earbuds in.
Yeah but I'd blame that on their lack of awareness. I sometimes ride up in FF and I still have no issues hearing others. Some people are just clueless.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,524
6,428
UK
Yeah but I'd blame that on their lack of awareness. I sometimes ride up in FF and I still have no issues hearing others. Some people are just clueless.
forget looking for someone to blame. This place has way too much of that going on..
You can't seriously think a bulky polystyrene balaclava with a chin protrusion and visor offering drastically reduced visual line of sight, head mobility, spacial awareness and reduced hearing and isn't hindering any new rider who's already lacking in awereness, common sense and trail etiquette's ability to have more of a clue?

PS. Even old hands like you or me have reduced hearing range of motion and spacial awareness with a full face helmet on. We're just better at making it less of an issue from years of experience and knowledge.

If you really want to blame anyone. You'd be just as well blaming racing, product marketing, mtb media and fuckwit "rule" makers for changing the entry requirement for beginner mtb participantion to wearing a full Enduro uniform.
 
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Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,524
6,428
UK
Keeping the rest of us safe from their incontinence accidents by the look of those one piece outfits.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,733
12,513
In the cleavage of the Tetons
It’s not light. But supposedly can do an 8k climbing day without a spare battery (if you ride slow in eco). They make an additional battery as well.
My goal for this bike is to ride with my long time bros, they all have them (but still shred pedal bikes). The whole reason is not for the local front country single track, but the 400+ miles of moto trails in the Big Hole Mountains range. These trails are often super skinny singletrack, and barely ridden. Most are too steep to pedal, really, we used to do hike-a-bike days with 5k of pushing. This bike will uncork all of that...and unlock 30-50k of amazing, chunky descents.
Basically a whole different sport.
 
It’s not light. But supposedly can do an 8k climbing day without a spare battery (if you ride slow in eco). They make an additional battery as well.
My goal for this bike is to ride with my long time bros, they all have them (but still shred pedal bikes). The whole reason is not for the local front country single track, but the 400+ miles of moto trails in the Big Hole Mountains range. These trails are often super skinny singletrack, and barely ridden. Most are too steep to pedal, really, we used to do hike-a-bike days with 5k of pushing. This bike will uncork all of that...and unlock 30-50k of amazing, chunky descents.
Basically a whole different sport.
Yeah, it's called motorcycling.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,733
12,513
In the cleavage of the Tetons
We all went through moto phases. I was way into it. But I never liked the weight, the noise, the smell...I (we) really like getting way the fuck out there on unmaintained trails, and exploring. Which means picking your bike up and over stuff.
Without causing trail or other damage.
But sure, I'm ok with not calling it cycling, it's not.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,524
6,428
UK
But supposedly can do an 8k climbing day without a spare battery (if you ride slow in eco).
Not a hope I'm afraid. Well.. Not unless you ride in a lower mode than standard eco and climb at the pace an unfit rider on a normal bike would manage. (assuming you're not unfit yourself).
Steep climbing and DH tyres drain batteries much faster than any claimed range you're likely to read about.
Hopefully you'll realise a new le el of versatility of riding and the new variety that opens up and just accept the limitations of battery range.
FWIW I have two batteries (one 504, one 630)and absolutely never carry a spare as a 3kg hunk of plastic encased lithium in a pack on your back while already riding a 21kg+ bike kills physical dexterity and agility and ultimately maneuverability while riding. Even on short rides. Nevermind longer ones.
I'd honestly rather carry a 12 pack of beer and just accept when the battery dies by drowning my sorrows in alcohol.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,524
6,428
UK
not calling it cycling, it's not
It is. Its just assisted.
Similar to Downhilling. But using slightly less physical energy pedalling to shuttle instead of zero in the case of vehicular or chairlifticular assistance.

Seriously. WTF happened to you guys that you're all so butt hurt by the thought of a tiny electric motor assisting your pedalling input?
 
We all went through moto phases. I was way into it. But I never liked the weight, the noise, the smell...I (we) really like getting way the fuck out there on unmaintained trails, and exploring. Which means picking your bike up and over stuff.
Without causing trail or other damage.
But sure, I'm ok with not calling it cycling, it's not.
I liked the noise and the wind and riding stupid fast, still get itchy on occasion, but it's a way of life thing, and I doubt that I'll ever get back into it.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
24,733
12,513
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Not a hope I'm afraid. Well.. Not unless you ride in a lower mode than standard eco and climb at the pace an unfit rider on a normal bike would manage. (assuming you're not unfit yourself).
Steep climbing and DH tyres drain batteries much faster than any claimed range you're likely to read about.
Hopefully you'll realise a new le el of versatility of riding and the new variety that opens up and just accept the limitations of battery range.
FWIW I have two batteries (one 504, one 630)and absolutely never carry a spare as a 3kg hunk of plastic encased lithium in a pack on your back while already riding a 21kg+ bike kills physical dexterity and agility and ultimately maneuverability while riding. Even on short rides. Nevermind longer ones.
I'd honestly rather carry a 12 pack of beer and just accept when the battery dies by drowning my sorrows in alcohol.
The Rocky comes with a 720, and you can add a (300?) That bolts into the main triangle. The range is stupendous...i have seen Strava confirmation.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,798
8,776
I have a 504 Wh onboard and a spare. But have never actually used the spare except for once as a proof of concept when I didn't have to. I did keep it in the car, not on my back, though!
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,524
6,428
UK
Natural terrain soft condition low grip steep climbing, the sort of climb that you'd struggle to maintain momentum/grip to "clean" on a normal bike a 500wh battery can be consumed in as little as 2.5k of elevation.
The best consumption Ive ever managed was probably around 6.5k on a new 504wh battery. But that was riding with normal bikes in dry conditions and mainly climbing fairly mellow hardpack/fire roads at low speed. Often with my motor switched off.
Some motors/batteries are better than others in this respect but not by huge margins
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,206
1,170
Natural terrain soft condition low grip steep climbing, the sort of climb that you'd struggle to maintain momentum/grip to "clean" on a normal bike a 500wh battery can be consumed in as little as 2.5k of elevation.
The best consumption Ive ever managed was probably around 6.5k on a new 504wh battery. But that was riding with normal bikes in dry conditions and mainly climbing fairly mellow hardpack/fire roads at low speed. Often with my motor switched off.
Some motors/batteries are better than others in this respect but not by huge margins
I think the motor/battery combo may even be secondary to rider weight and pedaling force. I've done 5k on a Levo (Brose 2.2/700wh) in full Turbo and had 10% left. A couple weekends ago, I visited a buddy in Ashland and had a couple times we did 4.5k in temps around freezing and I had 40% left on the same Levo in Eco & Trail, but he was down to ~20% on his Bullit (EP8/720wh). I think I could probably get 8k out of the Levo, but it would need to be in Eco and warmer temps.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,524
6,428
UK
What kind of motor and which generation make a bigger difference on range than how many watt hours. The Bosch CX gets more range than an old Shimano or Brose.
Yeah. Totally agree. But what I was meaning was there's no motor with a 700wh battery capable of allowing a rider to manage 8K of climbing on trails unridabru by normal bikes.
Unless, maybe you weigh 30kg