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This is what's wrong with The Industry™

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
Archer Components, it's single speed time again.
Glad I spent the extra $400 for the new remote.
Screenshot_20230108-121704.png
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
what was your initial attraction to the archer system? I could never figure out what problem it was solving.
Shitty thumb and I love short cage Saint mechs, being able to run 11 and maybe 12 speed Saint is nice too.
Shimano shifters are horrible.
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
Weird. No problems with mine. Is the shifter dead?
It had been going to sleep(?) after a minute but only for downshifts so I'd have to double tap.
Then it went normal so I figured something bad was about to happen, it's died three times in two rides.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
Shimano shifters are horrible
Personal preference init?
10spd Zee is my favourite shifter ever due to its 2 way upshift paddle being operational with a push or pull. Using either your thumb or forefinger each way gives 4 different shifting options. It's also way lighter and smoother action than XT/SAINT. I kinda hate being restricted to only using thumb push on the SRAM shifters I have on a couple of bikes.
Di2 is brilliant for road bikes but I genuinely dislike the lack of feel/control Di2 and AXS gives on an MTB over a cable. (Eg. No way to overpush the downshift lever when the drivetrain becomes worn or covered in mud).
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
7,727
7,074
Personal preference init?
10spd Zee is my favourite shifter ever due to its 2 way upshift paddle being operational with a push or pull. Using either your thumb or forefinger each way gives 4 different shifting options. It's also way lighter and smoother action than XT/SAINT. I kinda hate being restricted to only using thumb push on the SRAM shifters I have on a couple of bikes.
Di2 is brilliant for road bikes but I genuinely dislike the lack of feel/control Di2 and AXS gives on an MTB over a cable. (Eg. No way to overpush the downshift lever when the drivetrain becomes worn or covered in mud).
Yeah, should have said feels horrible to me.
I think I have or had a Zee shifter, both Saints were horrible, on the nine speed one I had to make a stopper to stop the downshift lever coming out so far then shave the downshift lever so I could hit the up, from memory I also made it so it would only click one gear at a time because the shift points were so close.
Then I ran my shifter on the left for a few years but droppers messed that up as I needed to use both thumbs, so I went AXS dropper and Archer for gears, that keeps my thumb pretty happy.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
Saint and XT shifters just aren't a nice light action, even out the box they have too much resistance then after a short while the ratchet always goes gritty and stiff and they then feel even more horrible. I can only imagine how terrible they would feel for you.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,837
5,212
Australia
I do like that double shift thing the Shimano shifters have where you can drop a couple of cog sizes with one motion. I don't really have a favourite for ergonomics between Shimano and SRAM but I do appreciate the SRAM picked one matchmaker option 50 years ago and stuck with it. Shimano's I-Spec nonsense R&D department must be stealing funds from the Saint development team because they release a new version 4 times a year.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
I def prefer multi shift down to lower gears (changing through multiple larger sprockets with a long push of the lever before or at the beginning of a climb) but prefer single clicks to higher gears like SRAM has (and as luck would have it that's exactly how a Zee shifter is configured too). clicking how many gears you want to shift is much more intuitive in the heat of the moment than pushing the shifter a certain distance. for me anyway.
As for ergonomics. It's only chugging along on the flat or climbs where I'll ever use forefinger shifting. During descents or fun/technical riding I rarely change gear at all but if I do it's always thumb thumb. it's just nice to have the option of different hand positions and shifter operation.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,721
8,733
Tannus Armour inserts.

I hate you and your stupid design.
Shoving one of them into a 26 x 4” tire was one frustrating experience for sure, especially since that size still needs a (smaller) tube. Made Cushcore seem like a piece of cake.
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,638
998
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Tannus Armour inserts.

I hate you (Tannus) and your stupid design.
Really? I have CushyCore on one wheel, Tannus on another, and I prefer the ride of the Tannus. I think I can feel that it sits up higher and has a more gradual shock absorbtion. A bit lighter too.
EDIT: Just realized we're talking about different products. Me: tubeless insert. You: thing that goes over tube in tire.
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,638
998
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Because this road-based commuter bike

View attachment 187498
Here's a "what's wrong with the industry" for all the Mainstreamers out there (that hopefully doesn't affect most of us). Why do most of the cheap, popular, electric getting-around bikes use weird tire and wheel sizes? Super tiny wheels on Costco bikes. Fat tires on commuters that will never leave pavement. I've even seen small rims with fat tires. They do the job worse and are more difficult to find replacements for. Why do these companies think they need to spec weird tires to sell bikes?
 
Here's a "what's wrong with the industry" for all the Mainstreamers out there (that hopefully doesn't affect most of us). Why do most of the cheap, popular, electric getting-around bikes use weird tire and wheel sizes? Super tiny wheels on Costco bikes. Fat tires on commuters that will never leave pavement. I've even seen small rims with fat tires. They do the job worse and are more difficult to find replacements for. Why do these companies think they need to spec weird tires to sell bikes?
Fat tires behave quite nicely on pavement.
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,638
998
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Fat tires behave quite nicely on pavement.
Not as nicely as 700x40c tires designed for commuting or touring. I get that up to the power cutoff speed the motor makes up for all the drag but they're the reason you can't pedal above that speed, even when a slight downgrade would make that easy on typical tires. The bigger issue is the hassle encountered after tire or tube damage. I once saw the #1 reason Americans stated for not using a bike was because it was sitting in the garage with a flat tire. This is not the demographic that needs more difficulty in repairing tire damage.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,122
10,677
AK
Not as nicely as 700x40c tires designed for commuting or touring. I get that up to the power cutoff speed the motor makes up for all the drag but they're the reason you can't pedal above that speed, even when a slight downgrade would make that easy on typical tires. The bigger issue is the hassle encountered after tire or tube damage. I once saw the #1 reason Americans stated for not using a bike was because it was sitting in the garage with a flat tire. This is not the demographic that needs more difficulty in repairing tire damage.
Depends on how rough your commute is. The fat-tires are kinda nice for rolling down stairs, etc. I quite like some faster-rolling and not-winter-size fat tires for commuting. You can make your commute a lot funner IMO than just trying to aero-700cs. That said, if you just want to be riding like a road-bike, but with more utility/carrying capacity, then sure, 700c.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,735
1,247
NORCAL is the hizzle
This is not the demographic that needs more difficulty in repairing tire damage.
Agree. If you've seen most of them ride, however, you know that this is, however, the demographic that needs fat tires to safely navigate train tracks and other road hazards. Plus, with all that tire volume they can go months without pumping up their tires. :rolleyes:
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,977
22,018
Sleazattle
Not as nicely as 700x40c tires designed for commuting or touring. I get that up to the power cutoff speed the motor makes up for all the drag but they're the reason you can't pedal above that speed, even when a slight downgrade would make that easy on typical tires. The bigger issue is the hassle encountered after tire or tube damage. I once saw the #1 reason Americans stated for not using a bike was because it was sitting in the garage with a flat tire. This is not the demographic that needs more difficulty in repairing tire damage.
Fat commuting tires are just the 2020s version of spring suspended gel seats.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
55,977
22,018
Sleazattle
Depends on how rough your commute is. The fat-tires are kinda nice for rolling down stairs, etc. I quite like some faster-rolling and not-winter-size fat tires for commuting. You can make your commute a lot funner IMO than just trying to aero-700cs. That said, if you just want to be riding like a road-bike, but with more utility/carrying capacity, then sure, 700c.
I was happy with 28mm tires when I commuted on a bike. Have a crappy wheelset with some 2.0" semi slick XC tires on a hard tail for my "urban" bike. Rolls well enough to cover distance and can still do dumb things on staircases, retaining walls and the occasional Greenway trail.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,769
26,985
media blackout
Here's a "what's wrong with the industry" for all the Mainstreamers out there (that hopefully doesn't affect most of us). Why do most of the cheap, popular, electric getting-around bikes use weird tire and wheel sizes? Super tiny wheels on Costco bikes. Fat tires on commuters that will never leave pavement. I've even seen small rims with fat tires. They do the job worse and are more difficult to find replacements for. Why do these companies think they need to spec weird tires to sell bikes?
comfort?

also, they probably have a shitload and they're cheap for an oem spec
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,822
7,065
borcester rhymes
Here's a "what's wrong with the industry" for all the Mainstreamers out there (that hopefully doesn't affect most of us). Why do most of the cheap, popular, electric getting-around bikes use weird tire and wheel sizes? Super tiny wheels on Costco bikes. Fat tires on commuters that will never leave pavement. I've even seen small rims with fat tires. They do the job worse and are more difficult to find replacements for. Why do these companies think they need to spec weird tires to sell bikes?
I haven't seen much in the way of cheap electric bikes. I was looking at a yamaha civante which is an e-roadbike for commuting, but then I decided to just try and do it myself with the spooky. Most I see are 650 with like 2.1 tires or something like that.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,822
7,065
borcester rhymes
BB30 (PF30) is too narrow. It was designed for road bikes. The wider version of it, BB386, is the best standard and what I specced on the bikes I designed, all rigid. The one issue I could maybe see with it is the large diameter could limit pivot placement. AND for the pressfit haters there's an identical but threaded version of that standard (T47). What's not to love? I wish we could hear from industry insiders who are more inside than me on why PF92 is so popular and T47/BB386 so rare.
Why is pf30 too narrow? I just installed a bb386 crank into a PF30 BB with the appropriate adapters. My understanding is the bb386 is PF30 with an extra10mm on each side. Why not have the option if you wanted a narrower q factor?

Anyways, the only pressfit bottom bracket I had was a RF bottom bracket to adapt RF 30mm cranks to a bb92. All of the 30mm and 24mm plastic PF cups I've personally installed have been flawless in their entirety. They may not be sealed well, but I also don't ride through the peat bogs of scotland.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,721
8,733
We're you getting a lot of pinch flats? Hucking stair gaps? Extreme bike pathing?
Putting inserts in a fat-tire just seems like self-abuse? Like, I can already roll down stairs...because they are fat tires.
It’s the thorns around here. No pinch flats or the like.

I’d rather a 700c x 47 mm as on my acoustic commuter but this one worked overall for my commute desires besides the tire size. And it turns out the super heavy wheel/tire package makes for nice gyroscopic stability.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
Stans is awesome at plugging thorn punctures.

Peat bogs don't ruin BBs per se. But constantly washing wet peat (other types of wet soil exist) off your drivetrain after every ride certainly can.
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
I’d rather a 700c x 47 mm as on my acoustic commuter but this one worked overall for my commute desires besides the tire size. And it turns out the super heavy wheel/tire package makes for nice gyroscopic stability.
what in the name of new marketing bullshit are we all missing out on now?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
21,947
21,468
Canaderp
Here's a "what's wrong with the industry" for all the Mainstreamers out there (that hopefully doesn't affect most of us). Why do most of the cheap, popular, electric getting-around bikes use weird tire and wheel sizes? Super tiny wheels on Costco bikes. Fat tires on commuters that will never leave pavement. I've even seen small rims with fat tires. They do the job worse and are more difficult to find replacements for. Why do these companies think they need to spec weird tires to sell bikes?
The people commuting on bikes, like a real commute, not some high school kid rolling down the block a kilometer, probably aren't going to Costco or Walmart to buy their bikes*.

*okay they might make that mistake once, but I'm sure most have moved on and tossed that garbage aside.

On that note, I walked by the bike section in Walmart the other day and yeah they had some oddball choices (mostly the non-offroad capable offroad bikes), but they had some road/gravel looking bikes that didn't look too far off from the cheapest of some of our name brand stuff.
 

mykel

closer to Periwinkle
Apr 19, 2013
5,484
4,212
sw ontario canada
The people commuting on bikes, like a real commute, not some high school kid rolling down the block a kilometer, probably aren't going to Costco or Walmart to buy their bikes*.

*okay they might make that mistake once, but I'm sure most have moved on and tossed that garbage aside.

On that note, I walked by the bike section in Walmart the other day and yeah they had some oddball choices (mostly the non-offroad capable offroad bikes), but they had some road/gravel looking bikes that didn't look too far off from the cheapest of some of our name brand stuff.

Ya, but how many of the forks were on backwards? :monkey:
 

Gary

my pronouns are hag/gis
Aug 27, 2002
8,509
6,420
UK
Not sure what constitutes a "real" commute but plenty folk here do commute on absolute shitters.
unless you can bring your fancy "analogue commuter with gyroscopic stability"in to your work and store it somewhere safe it'd be stolen in no time.
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,638
998
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
I haven't seen much in the way of cheap electric bikes.
They're everywhere on Maui. This is a culture that has always embraced the cheap Chinese Vespa style scooters for in town transportation so I think a lot of those users are now using these department store grade ebikes. The tiny wheeled ones from Costco can be spotted every 5 minutes around town.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,837
5,212
Australia
A Tannus is not going to help with thorns, brotato.
Nah the Tannus thingy that wraps around a tube (not the tubeless tyre insert) protects alright against glass and thorns from what I've seen. Whether its any better than a tubeless setup with decent sealant I'm not sure though.