but this is for dh bikes, coming from UNNO
This is what's wrong with The Industry™
- Thread starter Electric_City
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I believe the "nonround" seat post standard was part of the original "what's wrong" thread. In many ways, it makes sense. Round seat tubes made sense when bikes were made out of........tubes. Now, they're 8 axis CNC pure carbon block with precision acid etched internal dimensions. So who cares. And who wants a seat tube that rotates? Last time I checked,
The hilarious part will be to see what "standard" finally evolves out of this. Or maybe we all just go proprietary integrated dropper with auto angle adjust but the whole post adjust not just the head like S
thank you. that shit really bothered me but nobody 'in the biz' seems to think it's a big enough deal to talk about. or they're afraid to.
May I ask what I'm missing here?
the point is, they are the only ones making that seatpost. so you either get that one, or none. see the problem?
It's probably "free" with your $6000 DH frame
Everyone?
My carrier pigeon hasn't been seen for a few days. Care to tell us what he's said?
It's like you read my mind.
Just because it happens a lot doesn't make gay slurs okay.Oh fuck someone was mean on the internet in a DM. Time to freak out
Not sure I said gay slurs are ok...... I just have a hard time getting worked up and saying what's wrong with the industry is that an athlete said a bad word to another athlete in a private conversation. Sounds more like, this is what's wrong with Bernard Kerr.
Do you encounter lots of discrimination in the MTB community? I personally don't. In general everyone I ride with is super accepting of different lifestyles and cultures. Could be that I'm in the Gay Area out here in the Socialist Republic of California.
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You will if you hang out with me.
Heart rate monitors, shatter ready endurpo 'full faces', fanny packs, people still walk outside dressed like they're going speed skating and think they belong in the same sport as me. These same goonbags know their VO2 max to the eighth decimal place and then are dumb enough to flaunt photos of them doing bowlegged bar turns to prove they have style.
Can't build that wall fast enough if you ask me.
Discrimination against Joeys, kooks, and e-bikers is the only type I get on board with
Get off my lawn!!
Why is it always at moab?
Seriously, it's ALWAYS at moab.
And yes, usually involves a first gen nomad
I should publish a paper...........
Seriously, it's ALWAYS at moab.
And yes, usually involves a first gen nomad
I should publish a paper...........
If I may be so bold as to stick my tender young neck out here as a quasi/wannabe/notquite industry representative....You need these people. Everybody here needs these people .Ok, not ebikes.
But Joeys (I have no fuckin idea, but I can guess) and dentists and orthodontists and yes, even speed skaters are needed. They are needed to buy stuff. When they buy stuff, the industry makes stuff. When the industry makes stuff, you get to buy stuff. When they buy more better stuff, you get to buy more better stuff. (caveats fro pres fit bb, etc).
because if the industry really relied on people that you might go riding with, it wouldn't exist except for idiots like me. And Brent and Devin and Dave.....I'm pretty confident in my current customer base's riding cred. Because I made 60 frames. If I hope to do any kind of volume that lowers prices for everyone....a large percentage of those riders might be people you would not ride with....
And you might not get disc brakes and suspension and stuff at there current prices....
Nope
The only innovations worth a damn came because of demands from exactly not that population.
That sect of riders justified 29ers, fat tires, bar ends, strava, suspension lockouts, shitbox flow trails, and and lame ass ski hills that used to actually have legit dh tracks. None of which have contributed even indirectly to what I do on bicycles. All of those things have done exactly the opposite of improving bicycles. Those are the fucktards I to listened to for years try and tell everyone that bikes with BB heights below 14-14.5" are completely unrideable. And because they buy bikes, that's how bikes kept being designed. The rampant sale of nevegals and and primal scream jerseys has never once enhanced my bike riding.
Kill
with fire
The only innovations worth a damn came because of demands from exactly not that population.
That sect of riders justified 29ers, fat tires, bar ends, strava, suspension lockouts, shitbox flow trails, and and lame ass ski hills that used to actually have legit dh tracks. None of which have contributed even indirectly to what I do on bicycles. All of those things have done exactly the opposite of improving bicycles. Those are the fucktards I to listened to for years try and tell everyone that bikes with BB heights below 14-14.5" are completely unrideable. And because they buy bikes, that's how bikes kept being designed. The rampant sale of nevegals and and primal scream jerseys has never once enhanced my bike riding.
Kill
with fire
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Not from the demands of that exactly not population, but because they would buy enough of them to make it worth making them . At least at a lower price. If the numbers weren't there, your current bike would be at least 2 or 3 times as expensive, if it were available at all.
The fact that there wewre, are and always will be stupid ideas introduced is nothing wrong with the industry, or anything else. Encourage stupid ideas. Because if you don't, good ideas might be left unfound.
If fucktards are telling you that you a BB below 14.5" is unrideable. 1) I doubt it is anything close to the majority of buyers, because they barely know what BB even means, much less the effect its' height may have. 2) It is more likely a fucktard PM, probably lives around really slow steep roots and probably values pedaling thru them above all other traits.
You can pretty reliably substitute your choice of your unwanted product here, bar ends, hell, the 29er. They weren't brought about because of random consumer demand. Other way around. in the beginning, they came about inspite of consumer demand and made enough of an impact for the mass market to react and jump on the trend, whether it was actually beneficial or not.
Press fit BB, case in point. That's some nerd, not consumer demand.
I'll still back the nerd for trying. He had no idea knowing what hell he hath wrought
I'm fairly sure very few 'mercans will actually realise where or why the term "Joey" came about... so just so you know...
Here's Joey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joey_Deacon
TL: DR/W? - basically Joey was a severely disabled guy who appeared on UK kids tv back in an era where political correctness hadn't even been thought of, open homophobia, racism and religeous biggotry were fairly normal and it wasn't even frowned upon to take the piss out of the disabled. He became a household name. and combined with sticking your tongue behind your lip the latest insult for anyone lacking physical/mental prowess.
Bernard Kerr still cunt of the month here, aye?
You can probably blame our heritage
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I'm using real life examples of dumb ideas that were encouraged and not ignored like they should have been. This is not some theoretical list or some irrelevantly sized current minority here. It's history. Pay attention to my use of verb tense. Only now do these same dorks realized they can ride bikes they said they'd never buy a few years ago.
The only people that ever make the argument you're trying to make are those that make a living off of it. And it's far from the first time I've heard it.
The world was a little better when all grand ideas were trickle down from dh. Literally not a single thing worth a damn has trickled the other way up.
At this point I really would pay a little more for my brakes that weren't built like shit just because they're cheap to make so that they can be put on 12 bazillion build kits.
The only people that ever make the argument you're trying to make are those that make a living off of it. And it's far from the first time I've heard it.
The world was a little better when all grand ideas were trickle down from dh. Literally not a single thing worth a damn has trickled the other way up.
At this point I really would pay a little more for my brakes that weren't built like shit just because they're cheap to make so that they can be put on 12 bazillion build kits.
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I thought it was a kangaroo reference.....
my point is, if they were not ignored, it was because some hard core nutcase was driving them. Let's go back a few years, to the early 90's.....
front fork...pure fuckin nutcase, wtf. Fucktard, moron, imbezzel, weight gaining climb pogoing fringe ass.
rear suspension? All of the above times ten.
actual damping in either or both of the above??? Right. The general customer base was just happy the wheel went up and down.
Disc brakes??? run by bizarre/mutatn/compicated fluid??? Can't work why bother.
Droppers???i saw gravity dropper at Schwitzer in '03. Clearly mass market driven those mf'ers.
the trends come and go. Who cares. It's WORSE for those of us pretending to be in the industry. Whoah...they won't buy it. It's not carbonboost32incherthreadedHTwhatthefuckever
You're really not understanding what I'm saying. At all.
It has nothing to do with 'trends'. In fact referring to any and all bike design elements in such a way just tells me you're qualified to work at specialized. The slow migration of mtb geometry as far away from roads bikes as possible is not a 'trend'. It's not going to pass or ever swing backwards. Ever.
The current swath of morons sure refer to longer/lower/slacker as one though. Which exactly proves my point that they don't really know what's going on. To them it's the same thing as bar ends. Oh it's that thing we'll do for a while and then we won't. They don't recognize real progress when it happens so it doesn't get rewarded in the markets. I mean god, just read mtbr. It's like 50/50 of people trying to improve their riding/ people just begging to know what the next cool thing is so they can be at the front of it.
Bikes ridden fast in the woods should have had these geometries 15 years ago. But 'waaaaa, I can't steer up switchbacks, or waaaaaaa, I hit my pedals because I'm too stupid to look where I'm going'.
There WERE bikes that tried to move that way. But sales to king and queen nevegal took priority.
It has nothing to do with 'trends'. In fact referring to any and all bike design elements in such a way just tells me you're qualified to work at specialized. The slow migration of mtb geometry as far away from roads bikes as possible is not a 'trend'. It's not going to pass or ever swing backwards. Ever.
The current swath of morons sure refer to longer/lower/slacker as one though. Which exactly proves my point that they don't really know what's going on. To them it's the same thing as bar ends. Oh it's that thing we'll do for a while and then we won't. They don't recognize real progress when it happens so it doesn't get rewarded in the markets. I mean god, just read mtbr. It's like 50/50 of people trying to improve their riding/ people just begging to know what the next cool thing is so they can be at the front of it.
Bikes ridden fast in the woods should have had these geometries 15 years ago. But 'waaaaa, I can't steer up switchbacks, or waaaaaaa, I hit my pedals because I'm too stupid to look where I'm going'.
There WERE bikes that tried to move that way. But sales to king and queen nevegal took priority.
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What kind of geo would the ideal woo-mobile have?
We're there brother.
Pick me a kind of trail and I'll show you the bike pretty much. I think people have finally had trail bikes that are too slack, too low too whatever and come back a tad. Same applies to dh bikes with some fiddling.
Once hoverbike suspension finally arrives those goalposts will probably shift a little again. Can never discount the incoming hoverbike suspension.
I would like to see some more 65 degree headangle bikes in the 4-5" travel range. That's one rut everyone seems stuck in....travel unnecessarily tied to geometry.
I'm just using geometry as an example because it has an easy history to follow. And for the most part has (finally) come to some sort of fruition. Tires sure as hell aren't there yet. And buying inserts isn't going to move the process along any quicker either.
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I for one want MTB oriented rims. I'm tired of riding on rim profiles derived from skinny road wheels, high pressures and pavement..
Nah. I understand exactly what you're saying, just from a different perspective.
You are now focusing on one particular aspect of MTB design/devo. That being geo.
The fact that it has developed from road bike geo should be no surprise.
The fact that almost everything had to be developed from road bike stuff should be no surprise.
The fact that change takes time should be no surprise.
Back into the waybackmachine, to 2007. Developing the "magic link bike". LOTS of input into what that bike should be. in a category that really had no category, enduro hadn't been invented. It was tough to sell slacker than 69 Degree HTA. Not becausae of market demand. Because this is what the hard core, north shore riders of the time were used to. This wasn't dentists. These guys could ride.
But they were afraid they couldn't sell different geometry. Ironically, while investing in a geo changeling suspension
heh
"hardcore northshore riders" were exactly the endo loving, toofless dorks I'm talking about who insisted up and down that bikes needed 15" bbs for 'clearance'. Christ, look at the canadian bikes from the early 2000s. Collarbone specials, in terrain that should dictate the exact opposite in geometry. But those guys just thought they had to have it because scraping a bash guard was more important that smashing your face. And really, skinnies fall into what you call a 'trend'. Designing bikes for that shit is exactly the kind of side alley distraction I was talking about.
I'm not shocked or surprised that the first mtbs were road bikes. But by 2000 companies like foes, intense, turner etc had fuck all to do with road bikes. I'm well aware change takes time. Because of a vocal market that doesn't really know what they're doing it takes longer than it needs to.
And back to the original point, I'd don't owe them some kind of weird allegiance for it just because they buy shit. I wish they didn't. Things could move along faster.
Anyway, I'm done. Biking is far from the only activity turned industry that courts mediocrity like there's no tomorrow. But I don't have to be happy about it and I sure as hell don't have to be grateful for it.
"hardcore northshore riders" were exactly the endo loving, toofless dorks I'm talking about who insisted up and down that bikes needed 15" bbs for 'clearance'. Christ, look at the canadian bikes from the early 2000s. Collarbone specials, in terrain that should dictate the exact opposite in geometry. But those guys just thought they had to have it because scraping a bash guard was more important that smashing your face. And really, skinnies fall into what you call a 'trend'. Designing bikes for that shit is exactly the kind of side alley distraction I was talking about.
I'm not shocked or surprised that the first mtbs were road bikes. But by 2000 companies like foes, intense, turner etc had fuck all to do with road bikes. I'm well aware change takes time. Because of a vocal market that doesn't really know what they're doing it takes longer than it needs to.
And back to the original point, I'd don't owe them some kind of weird allegiance for it just because they buy shit. I wish they didn't. Things could move along faster.
Anyway, I'm done. Biking is far from the only activity turned industry that courts mediocrity like there's no tomorrow. But I don't have to be happy about it and I sure as hell don't have to be grateful for it.
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