Unfortunately, I don't.
This is what's wrong with The Industry™
- Thread starter Electric_City
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didn't want to tag him directly, since he's probably got other things on his mind. But my sentiments exactly!
I sell Santa Cruz on the basis that they have a well functioning suspension design, are durable, and the company is easy to deal with regarding warranty or any issues. They haven't made a bike since 2014 that I would ride because they're heavy and complex looking. That complexity makes them hard to clean, mess with the shock, and makes them heavy. I love the light weight and simplicity of Scott but I get that for some people they are viewed as not-as-durable, have proprietary shocks & cable routing, and are harder to deal with in the USA for small frame parts & warranty. Basically, I love riding Scott while selling SC & Ibis.
Yeah, having owned both...hmmm...I like them both (actually, I have an Ibis too). But really, when it comes down to maintenance? My main beef with them is on the frame design and where the cables/lines go. Don't put my cables where I can't reach them without a full blown bike stand and tool kit. In other words, don't put the lines inside the frame where no one can reach them in an emergency. It's not rocket science. Or brain surgery. But on an ebike, it's almost like performing brain surgery to change a der cable. It's that ridiculous and It doesn't have to be.
I'm not going to suspension/linkage bearings. I raced an IH Sunday for waaay too long. Can we just try to keep it simple? Or at the minimum, maintainable?
Oh and I need to reach my shock too. You know, to adjust it. Cuz I'm like Greg Minnnaaaaar and like to puzzle. So let me.
Appreciate the good looks of a clean looking bike, but I still have to work on it. There was really nothing wrong with cables and lines and shocks and whatnot on a bike. Talk about fixing something that didn't need fixing.....
/rant
See Brother,you know what ya like. It’s a beautiful feeling. Scott to me,going back to 90‘s something? Had all the Americans drooling over the bike. Very few here could afford,or did not have it in the stores to buy. The main complaint I remember was that it was Fragil at an Extreme price tag. Then as you said dealing with a new Frame. To me they were like a PlayBoy model,would Love to get a ride. Then in later years, Brendog is tearin it up! Also,buck here on the Monkey gave me a side of the story that I am greatful to have,and look forward to his future post’s.
It is refreshing tome that you were honest. It tells me a lot about you. We all know that it is not proper to say what you said,in your position within the bike industry. SC/Ibis or you’re shop might not like that. I don’t know if that is how they feel,but I can tell you that is how Spesh feels. Remind Avy,who is that Monkey that works for them that is here? Very nice fella. I would like know how he feels about that?
Avy
So simple and light. Doesn't hold mud, is very easy to clean, and the shock stays clean. I love my Genius. The shock is very easy to check sag & travel and adjust settings. There is a sag/travel indicator on a pivot on the left side. The downtube hatch pops open with a push button and has plenty of room to reach knobs, air valve, cables, or remove the shock.
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My shop, SC, and Ibis can't complain because I sell a lot of bikes for them. Scott gets me bikes for very cheap in exchange for showing how great they can ride to a group of Americans outside of XC racers and talking about why I like them. I'm honest about their traits that some could view as shortcomings, and encourage people to consider what's important to them.
Anytime the seat comes out I have to disconnect the dropper lever from the bars and push the housing into the frame from the front while pulling out the dropper. Installation is reverse of removal. To get the housing through the first time they included a pull cable in the replacement nomad frame but this 5010/furtado I’m building from a frame for my wife didn’t come with one. To do it without the helper cable I feed the housing in from the front then use a piece of TIG rod down the seat tube to poke into the hole and try to line up into the housing to help direct it into the seat tube.
Done properly. It can be one of the easiest jobs on a bike. Eg. On my Giga it's a bore all the way from front to rear through l the front triangle (through downtube) and the same through each seatstay. A 2yr old could route it. (Might need a wee hand removing and reattaching the brake lever to the rear hose tho)
Aside from being a PITA on most bikes, it drives up manufacturing and maintenance costs unnecessarily. My Tracer uses internal for it's dropper, but that makes sense.
The one with the fucking stupid actuator where the outer cable moves instead of the inner? If so swap it for the sensible one they released later. (same sorta design as all the TranX derived droppers).
Also. If your post is slammed into the frame it can kink the cable below it. Common AF problem with all cable droppers and folk wanting MOAR drop.
Hmmm... Double standards much?
Bearing in mind most dropper cables generally require a similar amount of maintenance as gear cables.
As for manufacturing costs.
It cost me fuck all.
My frame was free. And I do my own "maintenance"
For punters. The frames were discounted to below "cost" for ages.
if only we were all half as smart as you, the world would be a better place
My girlfriend's Santa Cruz isn't very complicated to work on or anything.
Actually, if you need to replace the bearings its very easy.
But zirk fittings on them seem like a dumb idea. Great in theory, but then you're left with all this old grease and jump that will attract every piece of sand and debris on the trails. Same thing on my Turner DHR, it created such a mess that I only used them once.
yeah, I've replaced shifter cables and dropper cables in my gen 3 bronson, it's not that difficult. a bit stiff at the bend bottom of seat tube, but it goes. Frames are strong and easy to work on, with great service support. Heading into year 6 on that frame, by far the most capable and durable mountain bike I've owned since I started riding in the mid 90's.
Once you have an internal cable in, it's a sinch. You can use tandem shift cables to pull new cable sections through. Or, if just servicing the dropper, disconnect the lever bolt and pull the dropper up, disconnect, reconnect when done, pull lever back and reconnect to bar. I even do this for travel sometimes, super easy/quick. Some internal stuff is crazy bad, like my Foes, which seems to have a series of "baffles" to work through with the partial monocoque frame. That one was bizarre, my chinese fatbike frame that only has a front derailleur port was easier to run the dropper housing through, not even intended for one. Otherwise, the standard is a flashlight and coat-hangar for me, if starting from scratch with no "pull through" already installed.
yes that's the one. It was not an issue on my Devinci Django which didn't had as constrained internal routing as the Tallboy...
I will look for another dropper, I might even have something already in my shed. Thanks for the advice!
I reckon most of you moany fuckers would be close to having a mental breakdown if you had to do internal routing on a lot of Ebikes nevermind the way greater level of hassle and frustration a many roadbike internal routing designs can bring.
Ie. Hoses and cables beneath bartape then Internally routed through bar, stem, headset and fork leg then gear cables internally under the BB. Often with no internal guiding leading yo their exit (gotta keep weight down, right?) . Many requiring you to drop BOTH gear cables in order to fit either a new front or rear inner. And then there's a skinny AF chainstay to deal with. Some are sheathed. But if someone has had a bad time with it the sheath at any point it simply won't work meaning a blind fishing trip. Add in Shimano road Sti's propensity for mashing and snipping off gear cable ends to be sucked into the shifter mechanism and requiring partial disassembly to remove.
And BTW Di2 wiring can also bring its own brand of extra fun.
None if this seems very apparent to most buyers/owners I've encountered and almost certainly wasn't given too much thought in their decision process before purchase.
So. Yeah. I don't see it going away anytime soon.
Ie. Hoses and cables beneath bartape then Internally routed through bar, stem, headset and fork leg then gear cables internally under the BB. Often with no internal guiding leading yo their exit (gotta keep weight down, right?) . Many requiring you to drop BOTH gear cables in order to fit either a new front or rear inner. And then there's a skinny AF chainstay to deal with. Some are sheathed. But if someone has had a bad time with it the sheath at any point it simply won't work meaning a blind fishing trip. Add in Shimano road Sti's propensity for mashing and snipping off gear cable ends to be sucked into the shifter mechanism and requiring partial disassembly to remove.
And BTW Di2 wiring can also bring its own brand of extra fun.
None if this seems very apparent to most buyers/owners I've encountered and almost certainly wasn't given too much thought in their decision process before purchase.
So. Yeah. I don't see it going away anytime soon.
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Nah. One up sell the decent actuator end. The shitty one just screws off and new one just screws in it's placeyes that's the one. It was not an issue on my Devinci Django which didn't had as constrained internal routing as the Tallboy...
I will look for another dropper, I might even have something already in my shed. Thanks for the advice!
thats why YOU get paid to do it
You are so amazingly correct that I didn't even read past this, thanks to my very simple system of never having any reason whatsoever to be in either of those situations
ask me how!
what do you do for work again?
no need, you stopped riding bikes
Point being. A cable job, whether it is seat post or derailleur or brakes, should be like a one beer job. 2 if you're thirsty.
Any more than that, then it's too much jackassery afoot. And as such, should be re-engineered.
Yes, I measure everything in beers
Any more than that, then it's too much jackassery afoot. And as such, should be re-engineered.
Yes, I measure everything in beers
take people's money and then tell them to fuck off
I'm shocked, that seems so unlike you...
Weird, pushing the brake lines through on my Nomad was easy. There was a bit of drag because of the girth of the Hayes hoses, but no tools were needed. Can't speak to dropper though because like Seth joked, if you're spending 4k on a frame, why not get wireless? lol
I did work on one guy's Megatower 2 that was a bitch to get the dropper housing through, but that was because his bike was absolutely filthy. I noticed when trying to stuff a new housing through the end of it was dirty, so I took a hose and sprayed it out and a torrent of mud came out. The old housing I was replacing had the outer part rubbed through by all the dirt, and then the exposed metal wires of the housing then rubbed the internal guide tube raw, which meant that there was still a bit of friction on the housing after I flushed out the mud, but I still got it through. What worked for me was feeding just the inner cable through from the front, slipping the housing over the end when it came out the seattube, then feeding the housing through to the front. Then I pulled the cable out, trimmed the housing, and installed the cable/trigger.
Out of all my bikes I built up from a frame, the Megatower 2 was the easiest to run the cables through.
Which means I could have just gotten lucky. I certainly am no wizard at it. Hell, I spent hours one time just
trying to get a cable through a Norco chain stay.
Which means I could have just gotten lucky. I certainly am no wizard at it. Hell, I spent hours one time just
trying to get a cable through a Norco chain stay.
in a country that happily pays 40chf for changing a tube, nobody gives a fuck…
that's because SC runs full length tubes so all you have to do is push
that 40% moar purchase price comes with perks!
Fuck's YOUR point? Captain obvious