Quantcast

This is what's wrong with The Industry™

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,474
1,685
Warsaw :/
I'm sure it's a nice bike but ffs. It's like are they actively trying to prove Specialized is run by lizard people hellbent on forcing new bs standards and killing choice?

Also when was the last time a proprietary shock shock on a bike was good? Was there ever such a shock? Brains were unreliable AF, so were equalizers, Spesh only ohlins was just a ttx with a short period of exclusivity so doesn't really count.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
86,588
25,147
media blackout
I'm sure it's a nice bike but ffs. It's like are they actively trying to prove Specialized is run by lizard people hellbent on forcing new bs standards and killing choice?

Also when was the last time a proprietary shock shock on a bike was good? Was there ever such a shock? Brains were unreliable AF, so were equalizers, Spesh only ohlins was just a ttx with a short period of exclusivity so doesn't really count.
as pointed out on vital, the shock is not actually proprietary. it uses a standard e2e/stroke. spesh even offers the frame with other shocks.

it should be described as "oem only"
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,529
5,291
Ottawa, Canada
as pointed out on vital, the shock is not actually proprietary. it uses a standard e2e/stroke. spesh even offers the frame with other shocks.

it should be described as "oem only"
It's the leverage ratio tuned to the specific characteristics of the shock I object to. while other shocks will fit, they will likely have a hard time achieving optimal performance without some sort of fuckery. makes keeping a frame for a long time difficult as options for replacing shocks become scarce. also, if you happen to fall on either end of the bell curve of rider weight/aggressiveness, then you're also limited by this choice.

I mean, it's not like they're going to cry about me not being able to ride their bikes, I'm just disappointed it won't be an option for me....
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,943
690
Not to mention it's not even really that special, its just a different take on a dual chamber setup for a more controllable progression.

And I have xtr, and I'm happy to trade it to anybody with GX AXS or better tbh. Shimano drivetrains are overrated - the one quality thing they make is the saint cranks. SRAM has been killing shimano for the past decade and this hasn't suddenly changed.

No, the real problem here is the fucking leverage ratio. They took a bike that was so good because it's defining feature was it's progressive suspension combined with it's aggressive geo made it so capable, especially with a coil shock, and took its teeth away by making it like any other bike on the market.

No shit a more progressive air shock works better for it now than coil shock. And no shit somebody who's riding all day 95 mile XC epics thinks it's better, that wasn't it's purpose before but it sure as shit is now.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,474
1,685
Warsaw :/
as pointed out on vital, the shock is not actually proprietary. it uses a standard e2e/stroke. spesh even offers the frame with other shocks.

it should be described as "oem only"
True true. I used the wrong word. My question still stands. Where did a shock like this work well?

@William42 good point on the shock. Maybe they just noticed many people were picking the stumpy over the enduro and want to push agressive riders to the bigger bike for some reason? I know a fair number of people doing big shit on stumpys. Since I doubt they want people to only buy the model with their super special shock. Unless they are morons they know you need multiple models at multiple pricepoints.

As for drivetrain - the problem isn't is shimano worse. The problem is again us being forced to new standards. This isn't a smartphone so why are they playing apple? I want field serviceability. If I'm riding in the middle of nowhere and I destroy my rear mech I don't want to be fucked just because the only shop there doesn't carry wireless crap.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,529
5,291
Ottawa, Canada
also, now that I think of it, the lack of reservoir, combined with it being extra active in the midstroke, means the oil will definitely get hotter the faster, rougher and more downhill you go. meaning decreased damping (and control).

so yeah, the bike went from being an aggressive all-mountain "+" bike, back to an aggressive trail bike...
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,288
6,309
borcester rhymes
I take issue with never being able to replace the shock with something better. It's not proprietary in that you can put something else on there, but it'll probably suck when you do. And specialized is renowned for their very good proprietary suspension bits. People loved autosag, the futureshock triple crown thing, the brain shock. Those were all hits. How could this fail?
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,359
9,983
AK
as pointed out on vital, the shock is not actually proprietary. it uses a standard e2e/stroke. spesh even offers the frame with other shocks.

it should be described as "oem only"
If Fox is not selling it aftermarket, its proprietary. Dont kid yourself. The main issue is in 3 years fox will be trying to forget this shock and you’ll have to replace it with something else.
 
Last edited:

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,359
9,983
AK
The latest polished air shock turd.








Really Charlie Brown, this time it’ll feel just like a coil!
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,561
901
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Also when was the last time a proprietary shock shock on a bike was good? Was there ever such a shock? Brains were unreliable AF, so were equalizers, Spesh only ohlins was just a ttx with a short period of exclusivity so doesn't really count.
I really like the shocks on my Sparks, Genius, and Ransom. The damper tunes seem fine and the remote changeable air volume makes the bikes more comfortable and enjoyable to climb on than comparable bikes. It's basically a sag switch.
 

shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
522
393
I bet the new Stumpy with the Ohlins coil spec rides better than the new Genie thing. Ohlins would spec it with a progressive shim stack tune and maybe a stiffer bottom out bumper.
 

jstuhlman

bagpipe wanker
Dec 3, 2009
16,905
13,409
Cackalacka du Nord
The latest polished air shock turd.








Really Charlie Brown, this time it’ll feel just like a coil!
gonna be honest...have ridden coil only rear shocks exclusively for...15years? got a kitsuma air on sale cheap last year and have ridden it now for a few rides on everything from local xc to rough as heck dh...after getting it dialed the thing that's most impressed me is that i realized that i just don't think about it. maybe not *quite* as supple on low speed local trail roots, but charging downhill over jank at speed it's been pretty damn impressive.
 

konifere

Monkey
Dec 20, 2021
586
721
I just did this and the reducer is a little sloppy IMO, its slightly under diameter spec. Its close, but creates a little play with a RS shock where there was none before.
That's weird. You got them from Offset Bushings? Just let them know, they will make it right. One time they did not read my specific length that I had left in the comments and went with the manufacturer specs, but I told them and they shipped me a new one right away without any fuss.

I have ordered 3 pairs of polymer DU+ brass bushings and everytime, they fit perfectly without any play. In a DVO shock, I think I remember that one bushing could slide more easily by hand through the polymer DU, but on my most recent Ohlins shocks, I need to push them in with the DU bushing tool or vice, just like regular metal DUs. Maybe they had a bad batch?

@Happymtb.fr Usually, the packages take like 7 days to reach Eastern Canada and I never paid any duties or taxes, but YMMV.
 

Happymtb.fr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
1,977
1,335
SWE
the last parcels i ordered from the uk took less time to ship to ch than ordering from bike24
I feel like there is some tension between Germany and Switzerland? I heard for example that there is a train ready to start on the swiss side of the border if the train from Germany is delayed... German delays are passing off people in Switzerland, who would have thought that? :D

@konifere
European Union applies custom fees for parcels coming from outside of EU. Canada is more "liberal" I believe
 

HardtailHack

used an iron once
Jan 20, 2009
6,995
6,052
Pfft, I beat specialized, had my Tor frame made with no provision for cables for gears or the dropper.

Last weekend I got to the top of a hill and my freshly charged dropper wouldn't drop, and I gave up on the Archer gears a while back.
So, as usual I made some very good decisions....
The Tranz-X dropper I have is smoother than the AXS or Magura have ever been.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,943
690
gonna be honest...have ridden coil only rear shocks exclusively for...15years? got a kitsuma air on sale cheap last year and have ridden it now for a few rides on everything from local xc to rough as heck dh...after getting it dialed the thing that's most impressed me is that i realized that i just don't think about it. maybe not *quite* as supple on low speed local trail roots, but charging downhill over jank at speed it's been pretty damn impressive.
My wife and I both have reigns and while I was at CC I ended up buying one Kitsuma Coil and one Kitsuma Air.

They're both pretty good. I rarely think about which ones on my bike and I swap them sometimes for shits and giggles. I've reached a point in my riding where I no longer really care and I'm not searching for perfect traction in every corner. If the bike rolls and I can get squirrely on it and ride out without falling I'm a happy camper.

That said, for anybody that does pay attention to the smaller details like that, the coil is observably better when it comes to traction. The reign isn't crazy progressive though, and the extra progression from the air shock is nice on jumps.

In a more ideal world, I'd love for the bike to be more progressive, and if it was, I'd always run the coil.

The old stumpjumper lived in an ideal world and the results were fantastic. That puppy ripped (rips?) with a coil.

The new one is the same ole "try and split the middle and make a slightly less cool bike" shit that all the other brands are doing, only this time with a stupid ass proprietary shock to patch the shortcomings.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
19,359
9,983
AK
That's weird. You got them from Offset Bushings? Just let them know, they will make it right. One time they did not read my specific length that I had left in the comments and went with the manufacturer specs, but I told them and they shipped me a new one right away without any fuss.

I have ordered 3 pairs of polymer DU+ brass bushings and everytime, they fit perfectly without any play. In a DVO shock, I think I remember that one bushing could slide more easily by hand through the polymer DU, but on my most recent Ohlins shocks, I need to push them in with the DU bushing tool or vice, just like regular metal DUs. Maybe they had a bad batch?

@Happymtb.fr Usually, the packages take like 7 days to reach Eastern Canada and I never paid any duties or taxes, but YMMV.
Yes.

They are offset reducers, not bushings.
 

Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
8,037
5,915
UK
I'm not particularly tall (182 or just under 6 freedoms) and fucking hate super steep seat tubes.
So thanks for that.
(lanky) Cunt!
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,474
1,685
Warsaw :/
I really like the shocks on my Sparks, Genius, and Ransom. The damper tunes seem fine and the remote changeable air volume makes the bikes more comfortable and enjoyable to climb on than comparable bikes. It's basically a sag switch.
Werent the equalizers a pita to service and not very reliable? or was it only for select model years?
 

Lelandjt

adorbs
Apr 4, 2008
2,561
901
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Werent the equalizers a pita to service and not very reliable? or was it only for select model years?
Those DT shocks were bad. The only one I had was a pull shock and the seals constantly failed. Since moving to Fox they've been good. There's nothing weird in the damper so they can be tuned like any other Fox shock. It's just got an extra air chamber that opens or closes with the lever.