This is what's wrong with The Industry™
- Thread starter Electric_City
- Start date
-
- Tags
- e-bike
I can’t find any of it now, but Jay was pretty vocal about Lael Wilcox not being unsupported on one of her Tour Divide races as she had a camera crew…the spirit of endurance racing etc etc and that bought out a lot of people alleging that Jay may be throwing some large stones in a very brittle greenhouse.
I'm not sure of the context of it. Did they take a ride to go from a village location to another village location, like someone gave them a ride from the school to the Alaska Commercial store (usually a few hundred feet to few thousand) to buy some food? Without specifics here, like he used these to cut actual miles from the race distance, I would reserve judgement, especially coming from MikeC. He's said some pretty crazy ass shit over the last 5-10 years in the fatbike forum and I've gotten into it with him more than once. His wife was out on one of the Iditarod's that I spectated about 30-40 miles in, but I don't think I've seen or talked to him directly, where I have with Jay. So based on the crazy stuff that MikeC has said, I would at least want to hear Jay's side of the stories before going down the judgement path.
Last edited:
Have to concur here. I know Jay pretty well, and have for twenty years or so. In every other aspect of his life, he is a straight shooter, as is his wife. They have a very ethical/honest reputation locally.
I haven’t chimed in because I don’t really know any real details.
I also know Jeni (sp?) from way back, so I stay out of it.
Jay got completely destroyed last year by a distracted driver on a gravel road, his circumstances and outlook are very, very different now, FWIW.
I haven’t chimed in because I don’t really know any real details.
I also know Jeni (sp?) from way back, so I stay out of it.
Jay got completely destroyed last year by a distracted driver on a gravel road, his circumstances and outlook are very, very different now, FWIW.
In the best way possible can’t believe that this conversation is happening on the internet….
Balanced responses from people with more than anecdotal evidence?
If people back him up, and especially with my inability to find proof of the other claims against him I have to say that I stand corrected.
In my brief attempt at research I saw that he’d been involved in a pretty serious accident. I wish him the best in his recovery.
Balanced responses from people with more than anecdotal evidence?
If people back him up, and especially with my inability to find proof of the other claims against him I have to say that I stand corrected.
In my brief attempt at research I saw that he’d been involved in a pretty serious accident. I wish him the best in his recovery.
He’s actually doing pretty well. I think he lined up for Rebecca Rusch’s Private Idaho, and is continuing to promote his big Fat Bike races near Yellowstone in the winter.
Y' remember that we have devolved to everyone babbling about everything everywhere, right?
How bout them Subaru Bears, eh?
Wow, for a four bar bike!
Kodiak bearing kit
€ 95,00
Bearing replacement set for our Kodiak gearbox bikes:
pivot A – 6902 MAX bearing – 15x28x7mm – 2pcs
pivot B and C – 7900 Enduro MAX bearing – 10x22x6mm – 8pcs
pivot D – 6001 LLU MAX Enduro bearing – 12x28x8mm – 4pcs
pivot E – brass graphite bearing – 16x12x10mm – 2pcs
pivot F and G – brass graphite bearing – 18x12x16mm – 2pcs
pivot I – 6800 Enduro MAX BO bearing – 10x19x5mm – 2pcs
pivot E and G – X-ring NBR – 10.82×1.78 – 4pcs
pivot F – IGUS thrust washer 12x20x1.0mm – GTM-1220-010 – 2pcs
DW, must have sold Split Pivot so he can work on one upping Instinctiv.
Kodiak bearing kit
€ 95,00
Bearing replacement set for our Kodiak gearbox bikes:
pivot A – 6902 MAX bearing – 15x28x7mm – 2pcs
pivot B and C – 7900 Enduro MAX bearing – 10x22x6mm – 8pcs
pivot D – 6001 LLU MAX Enduro bearing – 12x28x8mm – 4pcs
pivot E – brass graphite bearing – 16x12x10mm – 2pcs
pivot F and G – brass graphite bearing – 18x12x16mm – 2pcs
pivot I – 6800 Enduro MAX BO bearing – 10x19x5mm – 2pcs
pivot E and G – X-ring NBR – 10.82×1.78 – 4pcs
pivot F – IGUS thrust washer 12x20x1.0mm – GTM-1220-010 – 2pcs
DW, must have sold Split Pivot so he can work on one upping Instinctiv.
Yeah, but we can give some leeway here since they're talking about fatbikes in the "what's wrong with the industry section," so it feels okay and passes the smell test.
at first i thought they were talking about endurance runners
Anyone seen Diaz's recent posts on fork chassis misalignment? He shows forks that slide nicely until the axle is tightened, then they bind.
Well, I was surprised this was happening on floating axle forks. I've always carefully installed my axles and never crashed hard, so I thought my forks were alligned. He claims a lot of the people getting their bushings burnished actually have perfectly fitting bushings in a misaligned chassis. He doesn't get very detailed on the exact cause & solution because that's the service they charge for, but he mentions paint on the dropouts.
So by chassis, we're talking the lowers and stanchions and steerer tube, right? Wouldn't you be able to put that on a level table and do some measuring of some sort?
The some sort would have to be figured out. Like maybe you put the crown on an elevated level surface and see if a drop out is raised v the other? IDK shooting from the hip.
Or maybe industry needs to create a "chassis alignment jig" That'd be cool
The some sort would have to be figured out. Like maybe you put the crown on an elevated level surface and see if a drop out is raised v the other? IDK shooting from the hip.
Or maybe industry needs to create a "chassis alignment jig" That'd be cool
Yes.
In this case it looks like the dropouts are not perpendicular to the bore. At the end he twists the lower back into alignment and the uppers fall. Just a guess. There is no paint in these areas. I was surprised by this being an issue on these pinch bolt lowers too.
www.instagram.com
Diaz Suspension Design on Instagram: "A lot people are talking about floating axles after the last post so I figured this would be a good one to post next. Again NO Bushing Burnishing required or done !!! Floating axle fork when the axle is tightened the fork binds up. Yes we tried tightening the axle while the fork is compressed fully and it was still binding. (Again we know how to install an axle) .... I bolted a metal rod to the brake mount to try to get a better idea of what was happening. The chassis actually rolls inward when the axle is tightened causing the fork to bind. As you see pulling out on the metal rod flexes the lowers open allowing the fork to move freely. In this case we actually have to purposely miss aligne the chassis so that when the axle is tightened it brings it back into alignment. Again this is a small part of the process there are many more factors involved. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HUB/ WHEEL PROPERLY INSTALLED IN THE LOWERS TO PROPERLY CHECK BUSHINGS/ ALIGNMENT. There are a lot of shops / media posting before and after bushing burnishing with just lowers sliding back and forth on uppers. It means nothing without a hub installed and there is a pretty good chance the bushings didn't need to be burnished in the first place."
4,502 likes, 117 comments - diazsuspensiondesign on September 27, 2024: "A lot people are talking about floating axles after the last post so I figured this would be a good one to post next. Again NO Bushing Burnishing required or done !!! Floating axle fork when the axle is tightened the fork...
www.instagram.com
Last edited:
I understand mass weights and uses we have experimented with them in other stuff to balance hits and weight transfer...
But man it reminds me of a shaker weight from the infomercial.. some dude riding down the mountain shaking his shaker weight...
Next we are going to get thigh master and bun blaster for bikes ..
But man it reminds me of a shaker weight from the infomercial.. some dude riding down the mountain shaking his shaker weight...
Next we are going to get thigh master and bun blaster for bikes ..
Craig and I just had this discussion this morning among other things tech wise and designs.
Burnishing should never be used to correct alignment. They are 2 seperated scenarios, burnishing can help with bad alignment but isn't the proper way to align .
Alignment just aligns static ,(,not moving stationary) and doesn't take into account distortion...
Burnishing takes into account distortion and helps it stay smooth while riding and cornering...
I've stuck a single stanchion in and it bound. (On more than 1 occasion)
Magnesium Gaulles when press fit a bushing and rolls up some material...creating high spots and can be slightly out of round..
Forks can distort up to .6 when cornering and slamming,it thin walled and part of it..
So if you burnish .07- .1 you will allow proper flow and oil between stanchion and bushing, helps with distortion as well ..marzocchi was sized up, avalanche was sized up, I do my Enduro bikes .14 I do the DH bike .18..
....alignment is a good thing for sure and definitely should be addressed (almost NEVER is)
Last edited:
Listening to "The Chats" legends!In this case it looks like the dropouts are not perpendicular to the bore. At the end he twists the lower back into alignment and the uppers fall. Just a guess. There is no paint in these areas. I was surprised by this being an issue on these pinch bolt lowers too.
Diaz Suspension Design on Instagram: "A lot people are talking about floating axles after the last post so I figured this would be a good one to post next. Again NO Bushing Burnishing required or done !!! Floating axle fork when the axle is tightened the fork binds up. Yes we tried tightening the axle while the fork is compressed fully and it was still binding. (Again we know how to install an axle) .... I bolted a metal rod to the brake mount to try to get a better idea of what was happening. The chassis actually rolls inward when the axle is tightened causing the fork to bind. As you see pulling out on the metal rod flexes the lowers open allowing the fork to move freely. In this case we actually have to purposely miss aligne the chassis so that when the axle is tightened it brings it back into alignment. Again this is a small part of the process there are many more factors involved. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HUB/ WHEEL PROPERLY INSTALLED IN THE LOWERS TO PROPERLY CHECK BUSHINGS/ ALIGNMENT. There are a lot of shops / media posting before and after bushing burnishing with just lowers sliding back and forth on uppers. It means nothing without a hub installed and there is a pretty good chance the bushings didn't need to be burnished in the first place."
4,502 likes, 117 comments - diazsuspensiondesign on September 27, 2024: "A lot people are talking about floating axles after the last post so I figured this would be a good one to post next. Again NO Bushing Burnishing required or done !!! Floating axle fork when the axle is tightened the fork...
It has reminded me to measure my current front hub, it seems a bit wider than the last one.
I'm not smart enough to work out how the floating axle is beneficial if your hub is the correct width and the fork is made properly.
With Fox using a burly arch shaped arch they could probably run a 9mm QR and still be stiffer than a Formula Selva, it's almost as bad an arch design as the old Marzocchi seedy Moustache forks.
Yeah, I watched all his videos and had a couple back & forth comments. He & I are friends from racing days (used to pre-ride together) so I was respecting his desire to keep the details to himself due to this being part of his business. However, I really want to know more about this. The ultimate would be if Pinkbike picks it up and asks Fox for comment.In this case it looks like the dropouts are not perpendicular to the bore. At the end he twists the lower back into alignment and the uppers fall. Just a guess. There is no paint in these areas. I was surprised by this being an issue on these pinch bolt lowers too.
Diaz Suspension Design on Instagram: "A lot people are talking about floating axles after the last post so I figured this would be a good one to post next. Again NO Bushing Burnishing required or done !!! Floating axle fork when the axle is tightened the fork binds up. Yes we tried tightening the axle while the fork is compressed fully and it was still binding. (Again we know how to install an axle) .... I bolted a metal rod to the brake mount to try to get a better idea of what was happening. The chassis actually rolls inward when the axle is tightened causing the fork to bind. As you see pulling out on the metal rod flexes the lowers open allowing the fork to move freely. In this case we actually have to purposely miss aligne the chassis so that when the axle is tightened it brings it back into alignment. Again this is a small part of the process there are many more factors involved. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HUB/ WHEEL PROPERLY INSTALLED IN THE LOWERS TO PROPERLY CHECK BUSHINGS/ ALIGNMENT. There are a lot of shops / media posting before and after bushing burnishing with just lowers sliding back and forth on uppers. It means nothing without a hub installed and there is a pretty good chance the bushings didn't need to be burnished in the first place."
4,502 likes, 117 comments - diazsuspensiondesign on September 27, 2024: "A lot people are talking about floating axles after the last post so I figured this would be a good one to post next. Again NO Bushing Burnishing required or done !!! Floating axle fork when the axle is tightened the fork...
Do I have to put shims on my front hub now?
Off topic, but fuck Fox for making the backing (square) nut for the axle pinch bolt so easy to simply fall off if separated from the bolt. Which just happens if you ride a fuckton. I have lost two (the first was replaced with a 10mm locknut, and even so….) I am going to actually epoxy it in, and carry a spare nut and bolt in my on- bike tool kit.
How about applying Loctite/thread locker?
Sika 260 would probably do it.
Not really what's wrong with the industry but it was pretty funny to see a local dude on the TV, he got shot down by someone that knows stuff.
Edited that was way long winded even for me..
Lol
Lol
Last edited:
Him facing lower spots is actually badass..that's a great idea..can't hurt and would definitely be more beneficial than a quick turn the manufacturers give them ...
I do agree that powder coated parts and cast should always be machined perpendicular for a facing surface and accuracy...that I think is pretty bad ass that he's doing that
He's selling a process he developed for himself and it's a good set up...actually can't believe it hasn't been done commercially before to a more precise degree..good for him ..
But burnishing bushings eliminates bind 360 degrees not just for and aft..when a tube slighlty vends it goes oval say .6k so a tight bushing will grab a load of that friction and can cause a ton of mechanical bind..so yes give those bushings proper room for deflection and distortion so de loads, front to back, berms etc .
Go grab a garden hose and try to bend it with the side flare out...material has to push out somewhere..newtons law..(for every action there's an equal or opposite reaction).no matter how hard we try and dodge it, it's a law of physics and motion..
Let's just all be smooth like Keith Stone!!!
I do agree that powder coated parts and cast should always be machined perpendicular for a facing surface and accuracy...that I think is pretty bad ass that he's doing that
He's selling a process he developed for himself and it's a good set up...actually can't believe it hasn't been done commercially before to a more precise degree..good for him ..
But burnishing bushings eliminates bind 360 degrees not just for and aft..when a tube slighlty vends it goes oval say .6k so a tight bushing will grab a load of that friction and can cause a ton of mechanical bind..so yes give those bushings proper room for deflection and distortion so de loads, front to back, berms etc .
Go grab a garden hose and try to bend it with the side flare out...material has to push out somewhere..newtons law..(for every action there's an equal or opposite reaction).no matter how hard we try and dodge it, it's a law of physics and motion..
Let's just all be smooth like Keith Stone!!!
Last edited:
Whats worse is manitou knows the seal separating the negative from positive (rebound shaft seal) fails and is undersized. Dougal fixes it with his 3mm seal. Not sure if it applies to dorado, but it applies to mezzer, mattoc, mastodon, etc.
Yeah I thought about that, but my fork lasted for three years without any service beyond a couple of splash lube changes.
So I ordered a Manitou service kit with the bladder and everything.
Does Dougal use an O ring instead of a quad ring on the shaft seal for the air spring? That's what it looked like on the parts pic.
Using his website looked like work, so, stock seals it is. Plus he didn't seem to have bladders in stock.
Found this interesting - not overly surprising, but still...