700chf to service a commuter? Something is not right with this picture. Then again “service” is a wobbly term.
This is what's wrong with The Industry™
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I wasn’t aware you were allowed to leave the house for less than 700 in Switzerland.
Speaking of my own experiences with commuter bikes, the people riding them aren’t always the finely attuned pilots we pretend to be. A bb starts to develop play, a wheel starts to wobble and those problems don’t get managed until the wheel is in the frame and the cranks barely spin. Add metal pad carriers on cheap rims, jockey wheels that look like throwing stars and a headset with more slop than a farm yard and suddenly it’s starting to look like a lot of (expensive) work.
As Gary said, if the bike is on the lower end and has had its share of abuse, it’s probably better to just buy again rather than replace everything.
Upgrading and replacing consumable parts only really makes sense when you do it bit by bit, and can do most of the labour yourself.
Speaking of my own experiences with commuter bikes, the people riding them aren’t always the finely attuned pilots we pretend to be. A bb starts to develop play, a wheel starts to wobble and those problems don’t get managed until the wheel is in the frame and the cranks barely spin. Add metal pad carriers on cheap rims, jockey wheels that look like throwing stars and a headset with more slop than a farm yard and suddenly it’s starting to look like a lot of (expensive) work.
As Gary said, if the bike is on the lower end and has had its share of abuse, it’s probably better to just buy again rather than replace everything.
Upgrading and replacing consumable parts only really makes sense when you do it bit by bit, and can do most of the labour yourself.
Yeah I get it. My other bike I built up from a bare frame last winter. My previous bikes have been a mix of DIY custom builds and shop buys. I generally do all of my own maintenance, but I'm getting lazy and starting to recognize that I don't always find wrenching on stuff fun like I used to.
The quote is for all parts and labor. It's not so bad when broken down other than all parts are priced at MSRP and if I was doing it myself I would hunt around for sale prices.
Specific things that I knew needed to be worked on:
- Both F&R brake hoses were rubbing on each other and wore through the outer jacket, and need to be replaced and bled (internally routed rear of course)
- brake pads are low so might as well replace those if touching the brakes (XT brakes)
- Chain will not stay in 4th gear, suspect that sprocket on cassette is worn as shifting adjustments seem good, shop wants to replace chain and cassette (XT 12 speed)
- Fork and shock could use routine service of seals / wipers / oil (Fox 34 fork / RS rear seal kits)
I appreciate the breakdown. I get that shop costs are high and they need to make money. I was just surprised how easily it gets so expensive. I rarely take my bikes to the shop for any service.
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just to set it into relation:
it was 35 to change a tube, is gonna be 40 next month, + 11 chf tube of course
my room in a shared flat (albeit one with REALLY nice smart appliances and heated floors) is 1700
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that's usually 2h + parts for a more intensive one. usually have 3-5 bikes planned per day + flat tires/emergenies/final check new bikes (we get them already build up from main storage)
Doesn't sound an unreasonable quote at all then.
You're lucky you're not running a higher end bike with T type transmission. The cost of a new cassette, chainring and chain alone would be as much as your full quote.
Bike shops can't compete with online pricing here at all. Almost all official SRAM/Shimano parts cost the shops more at trade to buy than the cheapest online deals. (which are often bulk bought take-off/OEM components.)
Even looking at consumable parts like brake pads and rotors. SRAM sintered pads retail here at over £32 a pair and a single 200mm 6 bolt rotor is £60+. Online you could buy a compatible 200mm rotor and sintered pads for about £20 all in sent to your door. And you'd be hard pushed to tell any functional difference in use.
I could still buy any parts I want at trade through the shop I last worked in's trade accounts but I don't as it'd be more expensive and I'd also have to spend time traveling to the shop and back to collect them.
You're lucky you're not running a higher end bike with T type transmission. The cost of a new cassette, chainring and chain alone would be as much as your full quote.
Bike shops can't compete with online pricing here at all. Almost all official SRAM/Shimano parts cost the shops more at trade to buy than the cheapest online deals. (which are often bulk bought take-off/OEM components.)
Even looking at consumable parts like brake pads and rotors. SRAM sintered pads retail here at over £32 a pair and a single 200mm 6 bolt rotor is £60+. Online you could buy a compatible 200mm rotor and sintered pads for about £20 all in sent to your door. And you'd be hard pushed to tell any functional difference in use.
I could still buy any parts I want at trade through the shop I last worked in's trade accounts but I don't as it'd be more expensive and I'd also have to spend time traveling to the shop and back to collect them.
so £57 to fix a puncture?
We charged £7 labour for replacing a tube on any normal bike on a done while you wait basis and £10-12 for the tube (dependant on size). Mark up on a tube is 100-400% meaning it's around £15 straight in the till each time.
the labour rose to £15 for certain deliveroo rider's chinese Ebike monstrosities that shared more in common with mopeds than bicycles and woudn't even fit in a workstand
Unless your mechanics are disabled changing a tube on any normal bike is 5 minutes labour max. Even if that was with a minimum labour charge in place your shop is making a cunt out of it's customers.
Tubeless/inserts etc is obviously a different kettle of fish. But still wouldn't incur anywhere near your astronomical pricing.
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Wow! That tube replacement priicing is crazy.
Do people actually pay that much?
I get it that sime people don’t even have the tools, space or skill for tasks as mundane as changing a tube and thus need to go to a shop.
Still, how long does it really take to change a flat? Quick-release front wheel should be a five minute job that you can do well while chatting up the customer. Something as “complex” as a Rohloff should still only take ~20 minutes max.
Serious question: is “service” in CH worse than in D? I was always pretty horrified by what passed for service while living there. Very often costly, arrogant and absolutely inflexible. My German friends liked to use the phrase “Deutschland Service-wüste…” Perhaps Switzerland is the same…
Edit: as a counterpoint, the (automobile) tire shop in town will fix your flat tire while you wait for free. That service is literally what made me become a regular customer of theirs…
Do people actually pay that much?
I get it that sime people don’t even have the tools, space or skill for tasks as mundane as changing a tube and thus need to go to a shop.
Still, how long does it really take to change a flat? Quick-release front wheel should be a five minute job that you can do well while chatting up the customer. Something as “complex” as a Rohloff should still only take ~20 minutes max.
Serious question: is “service” in CH worse than in D? I was always pretty horrified by what passed for service while living there. Very often costly, arrogant and absolutely inflexible. My German friends liked to use the phrase “Deutschland Service-wüste…” Perhaps Switzerland is the same…
Edit: as a counterpoint, the (automobile) tire shop in town will fix your flat tire while you wait for free. That service is literally what made me become a regular customer of theirs…
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You "get it", so you must already know the answer - the standard response is that you're not just paying for the few minutes it takes. You're paying for the skills, the space, the tools, insurance, etc., and yeah, a little profit in there as well.
I think you are making some wild assumptions that seth knows how to change a tube.
Do shops have trouble finding people that want to be bike mechanics?
Who would work on a modern bike and go 'Yup, this is what I want to do forever.'?
If a bike came to me with cables in the handlebar and/or headset, I think I'd throw it at the 'customer', fuck that shit!
I do enjoy a good workplace tantrum.
Who would work on a modern bike and go 'Yup, this is what I want to do forever.'?
If a bike came to me with cables in the handlebar and/or headset, I think I'd throw it at the 'customer', fuck that shit!
I do enjoy a good workplace tantrum.
When I was in the trade, there was no shortage of people wanting to do the job, but there was a shortage of people that knew how to do the job properly.
That said, I was not having a problem myself at attracting and retaining good staff.
That said, I was not having a problem myself at attracting and retaining good staff.
The work can be incredibly varied and along with the job your knowledge and expertise will be constantly evolving. I've worked on pretty much every type of bike you can think of. From pretty much every era right back to museum pieces and thoroughly enjoyed my time as a bike mechanic. A lot of what you work on will of course depend on the nature of shop you work in and to some extent it's location.
What is it about working on a "modern bike" you find so unappealing?
That isn't even close to a difficult job. Infact. It's pretty straightforward. Just time consuming.
If you lack patience or struggle organising work methodically and calmly you'll never make a good bike mechanic. But don't get me wrong. Even the best bike mechanics have jobs they dislike more than others but generally not enough to provoke a tantrum.
I know a dude that fixed an off brand Chinese E bike, the importer started sending lots of people to his shop.
He walked out on the shop, and it was his shop, hahaha!
I'm a shit bike mechanic, I lack patience, struggle organising work methodically and calmly.
I have no time for things that are done solely for aesthetics, it's a bike made to be ridden in hostile environments and repaired, build it as such!
You also seem incredibly blinkered and have a hard time seeing things from any perspective than your own. So no. You probably wouldn't ever get on well in a busy workshop.
Internal routing isn't 'just' for aesthetics. It has become so on mountainbikes. But it's origin wasn't only about aesthetics.
Internal routing isn't 'just' for aesthetics. It has become so on mountainbikes. But it's origin wasn't only about aesthetics.
Yeah, we all want to travel to chifzerland to eat chifcolate and hide our non-chif money.I pronounce is "swissfranks".
must be a regional dialect thing...
Shop I worked at as a grom was around the corner from a drum store. One day the grumpy lead mechanic fished an old cracked cymbal from the dumpster and mounted it on a wall. Every now and then a tantrum would result in him smashing the shit out of that cymbal with a big ol' mallet. In the middle of the day, with a store full of customers.
Forgetting the ridiculous price for a second. There does seem to ONE thing RIGHT with the product.
mind you based on the BORGAR index:
www.statista.com
things would appear to be 40% more expensive in switzerland than the US
Big Mac index 2024 | Statista
Switzerland leads the Big Mac index as of July 2024. The index is a way of measuring whether currencies are over- or undervalued against each other.
www.statista.com
That is correct, bikes are crudely made pieces of shit and I hate working on them.
Bearings pressed in to paint, BB shells full of paint, malformed threads in BBs, oval BBs, drop in bearings on oval headtubes, pivots that don't line up, $1000+ forks that you put a lower race on to a thick layer of powder coat, maybe it helps reduce the clicking noises.....
What was the origin of internal cables then, aero? Fuck, sign me up!
EDIT- I'll add vertical shock mounting to my rant, yay a bike that tries to fold itself in half when you bottom it out.
It broke my little black heart when even Nicolai pandered to the water bottle whingers and went vertical shock
Next frame will be a Crossworx because the geo is decent and the shock is in a sensible spot for loading and not having to add extra metal because water bottle!
As an obese person, not having widely spaced moving bits up high is nice too.
Rule of the internet, don't post just after waking up.
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Better be taking it out every so often especially if in a wet climate or wash your bike much.
Yeah.
Obviously nothing we'd ever need to worry about.
You'd be dumb as fuck not to take advantage of a few free watts if your career depended on it though. Joe Road Punter. Not so much.
Remember to drop it by your local shoddy powder coaters before building it.
TBF what FS frame design doesn't try to fold itself in half when it bottoms out?
I'd have to assume your issue was a poorly designed frame which allowed the top links shock mount to rotate to near vertical at bottom out rather than simply because of the orientation of the shock. horizontally mounted shocks are far from immune to similar bad frame design issues.
I'm with you on this one. It's not just an obese person issue though. My right inner thigh was taking an absolute mullering on one of my bikes down steeper rougher descents. I had been using Burgtec Alu flats which I'd used for years on my DH bike with no similar issues. Turns out their super stubby axles just put my feet just close enough together that the linkage would rub my leg. Mates thought I was being a princess but I solved the issue by fitting a set of Burgtec composites (10mm more axle between crank and pedal body).