[toodles]

Current XC geometry is about as close to road geometry as DH bike geometry is to 120mm trail bike geometry.
Thing is... under a decent XC rider XC geometry makes perfect sense.
Just look at XC riders like Nino or Grant Ferguson ride.
Saddle up they're both more stylish and faster descending than a lot of "DH" riders here.

My roadbike (TCR) has a 73deg HA, a WC XC bike will be between 68-70
My 4X bike's HA is in that range and it's not exactly designed for roads or climbing.

Exactly - XC geo is being pushed by race environment and development and has already pushed the offerings in the trail bike realm. A trail bike is theoretically basically just a burlier, more reliable XC bike with a bit more travel and more "fun" geometry and feel. When race XC bikes are coming out with head angles in the 68º range, then it makes sense that trail bikes should be getting 66º if they're running 140mm forks.

I'm glad bikes are getting rowdier. Just because I want a short travel bike for trail riding doesn't mean I want it to steer like a reversing forklift.

 

[mykel]

...and Grant rides stock XC frames.
it's not the bike that has the riding ability or style. It's the rider.

N1no is an amazing rider but did he fuck invent slacker XC bikes... I was riding a 62 deg HA 100mm XC hardtail When he was 12yrs old.

Ya, and I too was riding a cobbled together "mountain" bike in the mid-70's.

But, what you and I may have pieced together in the bad old days does not indicate what was or is commercially available.

 

[Gary]

Ya, and I too was riding a cobbled together "mountain" bike in the mid-70's.

But, what you and I may have pieced together in the bad old days does not indicate what was or is commercially available.

er... it wasn't cobbled together at all.
it was an off the shelf shelf taiwanese Alu 26" XC frame from my local bike shop with a 100mm RS fork and XT groupset.

 

[Gary]

I'm glad bikes are getting rowdier. Just because I want a short travel bike for trail riding doesn't mean I want it to steer like a reversing forklift.

Yeah, I also like that short travel FS bikes have gotten slacker but now that they've gotten far longer I'm only happy on most manufacturers size smalls (sort of a win as there's usually more standover and they look nicer) but they still don't ever seem to have nice low BBs. I don't see that changing with this new catchphrase
The Forklift comment makes it sound to me a little like you simply aren't used to riding a steeper H/A. I've been riding my 100mm 4X hardtail pretty much every day for the last fortnight and loving every ride. a mix of trail riding, natural XC, enduro tracks, jump parks and pumptrack... with a healthy does of "just pissing about" It has an 11-25 cassette so climbs are challenging, a super stiffly sprung fork and 50/60psi in the DMR moto RT street/DJ tyres so when it gets rough the bike barely even tracks the ground. At times it means manualling, hopping, jumping and choosing a good line is the only way to ride it fast. I'm happy riding a vast variety of different bikes though and don't actually *need* a rowdy bike to get rowdy. infact I perversely enjoy having what most would regard a wholly inappropriate bike for the riding even more.
I've always liked short travel bikes and short travel hardtails... they're just so much more direct.
as for H/A. I ride Road, BMX and XC right through to DH so switch between 73 and 63deg H/As daily. There's really no drama in doing so.

 

[toodles]

Yeah my old Scout was 67º - maybe even 66º with the 150mm fork and it was mint. But after riding the 450mm reach/65º HA Kona, the 432mm 2015 Scout feels all kinds of squirrelly and weird when I jump between the two. The new Scout is 450mm reach/65º HA so I think it would be a really good and comfortable trail bike but Transition made the new ones like 1kg heavier which is rubbish, plus they're $700 more than they used to be. Coming from years and years of only having a DH bike I'm definitely one of those people that prefers the slacker HA bikes and I have no trouble using a bike with a slackish HA for DJs or pump track.

Anyway, thread back on track - the "downcountry" moniker might be stupid but I really rate the idea of short travel bikes with geo like that. The SB100 from Yeti would be ideal for someone stupid like me that comes from an exclusively DH background but is now doing more and more long trail rides and even the occasional XC race. I'd happily charge along on one until it snapped or developed hideous play in the Infiinity link.

Whats wrong with the industry? The SB100 is a $12,000 bike that has a massive issue with the Switch Infinity link developing play and requiring repairs and Yeti sending out replacement modified linkage parts. Yay for consumer test mules.

 

[xy9ine]

Whats wrong with the industry? The SB100 is a $12,000 bike that has a massive issue with the Switch Infinity link developing play and requiring repairs and Yeti sending out replacement modified linkage parts.

it pains me to no end at the lack of simple, (relatively) cheap & bomber bikes w/ excellent (personal bias towards "progressive") geometry on the market currently. the starling murmur factory (taiwan built) was one of my favorite bikes i've ridden in a long time, despite a simple single pivot design that was (slightly) flawed when compared to some of the newfangled designs out there (like the yeti). should be no problem knocking out something like this offshore, w/ a solid component spec (and reasonable profitability), for less than half the price of the 5 figure superbikes that we seem to be more & more willing to accept as status quo.

 

[roflbox]

Imagine the shit that would be let loose on the world if we just didn't categorise bikes at all?

hah, saw that video on youtube, identified the locations in that as local to me
lake crab tree, and a skatepark in Raleigh.

 

[Gary]

Is Mongoose HQ somewhere near there too?

 

[toodles]

it pains me to no end at the lack of simple, (relatively) cheap & bomber bikes w/ excellent (personal bias towards "progressive") geometry on the market currently. the starling murmur factory (taiwan built) was one of my favorite bikes i've ridden in a long time, despite a simple single pivot design that was (slightly) flawed when compared to some of the newfangled designs out there (like the yeti). should be no problem knocking out something like this offshore, w/ a solid component spec (and reasonable profitability), for less than half the price of the 5 figure superbikes that we seem to be more & more willing to accept as status quo.

Absolutely this. Good geometry doesn't cost more to make. There's no good reason why an aluminium Patrol/Scout etc costs more than a carbon Trek or Giant.

 

[roflbox]

Is Mongoose HQ somewhere near there too?

Good question, would like to ride with Chris Akrigg for sure

 

[roflbox]

Is Mongoose HQ somewhere near there too?

not from what I can tell from their or their parent company

 

[D.E.T.]

not from what I can tell from their or their parent company

The guy riding the bmx, is the Mongoose team manager and lives in Raleigh. So that is most likely the reason he was there.

 

[jstuhlman]

too bad he didn't find teh secret @jackalope - breakin' RTP huck trail!

 

[roflbox]

The guy riding the bmx, is the Mongoose team manager and lives in Raleigh. So that is most likely the reason he was there.

suddenly out of nowhere, inside knowledge

 

[Happymtb.fr]

@toodles the new Giant Trance 29 seems to be a good alternative to the SB100

 

[sethimus]

I was riding a 62 deg HA 100mm XC hardtail When he was 12yrs old.

was that before or after your flight to the moon?

 

[Gary]

was that before or after your flight to the moon?

Incase you're calling me out on it the bike is at my daughter's. I gave it to her mother 15 years ago who I believe still uses it to ride to the gym.
The moon landing never really interested me all that much... I much preferred Stanley's work in "The Shining" and "Clockwork Orange"

 

[sethimus]

it's just because you sound more and more like bing gordyn, the 8th man on the moon

 

[Kiwintas]

@toodles the new Giant Trance 29 seems to be a good alternative to the SB100

That trance 29 punch’s well above its weight. Got to take one for a spin when I was back in NZ just before Christmas.
The crew I rode with were all on 160mm long low and slack bikes and we rode trails that were suited to the bikes they were riding. The trance 29 wasn’t as fast but it rolled through stuff that it had no right to with 115mm of rear travel. The only down side to it was the crappy sram brakes on it that faded on the long steep descent.

 

[profro]

ithe starling murmur factory (taiwan built) was one of my favorite bikes i've ridden in a long time,

I am REALLY intrigued by the Factory Murmur...

 

[Lelandjt]

...and Grant rides stock XC frames.
it's not the bike that has the riding ability or style. It's the rider.

N1no is an amazing rider but did he fuck invent slacker XC bikes... I was riding a 62 deg HA 100mm XC hardtail When he was 12yrs old.

No, but he was the first person with the clout to convince a major company to build an XC frame with good geometry and shock rate. Before that it was nobodies like you and me putting together bikes like that and racing them to midpack finishes while the fit guys at the front were too stubborn to see the light. After the Nino bike came out you saw a wave of companies lengthening and slacking their XC bikes.

 

[toodles]

@toodles the new Giant Trance 29 seems to be a good alternative to the SB100

I'd originally dismissed them because the Giant seat angles were always terrible but I had a quick play on a Large (I'm probably medium) over in NZ last week and they're pretty damn alright. Will try to pinch a medium one for a demo ride sometime.

 

[Gary]

lengthening

*sigh*

 

[slimshady]

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/First-UCI-World-Champions-for-E-Mountain-Bike-To-Be-Crowned-in-Mont-Saint-Anne,2622



*Grabs the pitchfork and the torch*

 

[ianjenn]

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/First-UCI-World-Champions-for-E-Mountain-Bike-To-Be-Crowned-in-Mont-Saint-Anne,2622

I hope to God KTM enters their Enduro electric bike and spanks the field.......

 

[roflbox]

Hopefully yeti releases their ebike soon

I am reeaaaaaaaaaaalllllyyyy looking forward to that

 

[jackalope]

Hopefully yeti releases their ebike soon

I am reeaaaaaaaaaaalllllyyyy looking forward to that

It better be called the "Yet-E" and have the bigfoot headbadge throwing lightning bolts.

 

[xy9ine]

https://www.vitalmtb.com/news/press-release/First-UCI-World-Champions-for-E-Mountain-Bike-To-Be-Crowned-in-Mont-Saint-Anne,2622



*Grabs the pitchfork and the torch*

seems incredibly hard to regulate. ie, verification of speed restriction & battery capacity. lots of potential for very hard to catch hacks.

pitchforks aside, what *might* be interesting, is a race format that removes the climbing factor from the equation - ie, e-enduro. Eenudo. would essentially be a self-shuttled multi stage dh race, taking ~half the time of a typical enduro. sounds kinda fun, actually.

 

[norbar]

seems incredibly hard to regulate. ie, verification of speed restriction & battery capacity. lots of potential for very hard to catch hacks.

pitchforks aside, what *might* be interesting, is a race format that removes the climbing factor from the equation - ie, e-enduro. Eenudo. would essentially be a self-shuttled multi stage dh race, taking ~half the time of a typical enduro. sounds kinda fun, actually.

I'd rather they created a more manly idiotic race format. Like some no stage, long as hell enduro race where the rider who sleeps the least wins (also bring your own hammock or get DQd)

 

[djjohnr]

I'd rather they created a more manly idiotic race format. Like some no stage, long as hell enduro race where the rider who sleeps the least wins (also bring your own hammock or get DQd)

Full contact dual slalom with cattle prods

 

[StiHacka]

Full contact dual slalom with cattle prods

Now you've said too much.

 

[rockofullr]

Full contact dual slalom

4X??

 

[norbar]

Full contact dual slalom with cattle prods

It's called four cross and we already tried it

 

[djjohnr]

I was thinking more along the lines of having track crossover/head to head cattle prod jousting sections.

 

[jonKranked]

dual downhill.

 

[roflbox]

what about tandem slalom, rider on the back gets the cattle prod

 

[Gary]

dual downhill.

That was a thing too. Almost 20 years back to the day Redbull put one on here (*Innerieithen, scotland). invite only and ran it at night.
A DH track was put together a little wider and straighter than the usual tight narrow tracks we have here, lips were built into blind landings, Elite/Expert riders contacted at short notice turned up with cobbled together lights, ropey uplifts took them to the top to race, While racing 'tog's waited in the tree with flashes to set off off into riders eyes as they tried to negotiate wet root strewn corners.
No crocs or sharks would take the gig as it was too cold.

*The one place with even more history as a DH venue in Scotland than Ft William

 

[boostindoubles]

Halfpipe jousting could be a fun thing.

 

[Gary]

Halfpipe jousting could be a fun thing.

dunno about "fun"

Reservoir Dogs was a "fun" movie though, eh?

 

[canadmos]

This is pretty minor compared to WhatsActuallyWrongWithTheIndustry, but we do have some Packaging Enginerds here.

Has anyone purchased a Sram Eagle shifter recently? I got one in the mail last night and lol'd at the size of the box it came in. The box for the shifter is bigger than the Eagle cassette box.