Quantcast

This is what's wrong with The Industry™

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Electric_City, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 684
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,510
    Location:
    Australia
    Exactly - XC geo is being pushed by race environment and development and has already pushed the offerings in the trail bike realm. A trail bike is theoretically basically just a burlier, more reliable XC bike with a bit more travel and more "fun" geometry and feel. When race XC bikes are coming out with head angles in the 68º range, then it makes sense that trail bikes should be getting 66º if they're running 140mm forks.

    I'm glad bikes are getting rowdier. Just because I want a short travel bike for trail riding doesn't mean I want it to steer like a reversing forklift.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    91 / 503
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    sw ontario canada
    Ya, and I too was riding a cobbled together "mountain" bike in the mid-70's.

    But, what you and I may have pieced together in the bad old days does not indicate what was or is commercially available.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK
    er... it wasn't cobbled together at all.
    it was an off the shelf shelf taiwanese Alu 26" XC frame from my local bike shop with a 100mm RS fork and XT groupset.
     
  4. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK
    Yeah, I also like that short travel FS bikes have gotten slacker but now that they've gotten far longer I'm only happy on most manufacturers size smalls (sort of a win as there's usually more standover and they look nicer) but they still don't ever seem to have nice low BBs. I don't see that changing with this new catchphrase
    The Forklift comment makes it sound to me a little like you simply aren't used to riding a steeper H/A. I've been riding my 100mm 4X hardtail pretty much every day for the last fortnight and loving every ride. a mix of trail riding, natural XC, enduro tracks, jump parks and pumptrack... with a healthy does of "just pissing about" It has an 11-25 cassette so climbs are challenging, a super stiffly sprung fork and 50/60psi in the DMR moto RT street/DJ tyres so when it gets rough the bike barely even tracks the ground. At times it means manualling, hopping, jumping and choosing a good line is the only way to ride it fast. I'm happy riding a vast variety of different bikes though and don't actually *need* a rowdy bike to get rowdy. infact I perversely enjoy having what most would regard a wholly inappropriate bike for the riding even more.
    I've always liked short travel bikes and short travel hardtails... they're just so much more direct.
    as for H/A. I ride Road, BMX and XC right through to DH so switch between 73 and 63deg H/As daily. There's really no drama in doing so.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 684
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,510
    Location:
    Australia
    Yeah my old Scout was 67º - maybe even 66º with the 150mm fork and it was mint. But after riding the 450mm reach/65º HA Kona, the 432mm 2015 Scout feels all kinds of squirrelly and weird when I jump between the two. The new Scout is 450mm reach/65º HA so I think it would be a really good and comfortable trail bike but Transition made the new ones like 1kg heavier which is rubbish, plus they're $700 more than they used to be. Coming from years and years of only having a DH bike I'm definitely one of those people that prefers the slacker HA bikes and I have no trouble using a bike with a slackish HA for DJs or pump track.

    Anyway, thread back on track - the "downcountry" moniker might be stupid but I really rate the idea of short travel bikes with geo like that. The SB100 from Yeti would be ideal for someone stupid like me that comes from an exclusively DH background but is now doing more and more long trail rides and even the occasional XC race. I'd happily charge along on one until it snapped or developed hideous play in the Infiinity link.

    Whats wrong with the industry? The SB100 is a $12,000 bike that has a massive issue with the Switch Infinity link developing play and requiring repairs and Yeti sending out replacement modified linkage parts. Yay for consumer test mules.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 127
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,717
    Location:
    vancouver eastside
    it pains me to no end at the lack of simple, (relatively) cheap & bomber bikes w/ excellent (personal bias towards "progressive") geometry on the market currently. the starling murmur factory (taiwan built) was one of my favorite bikes i've ridden in a long time, despite a simple single pivot design that was (slightly) flawed when compared to some of the newfangled designs out there (like the yeti). should be no problem knocking out something like this offshore, w/ a solid component spec (and reasonable profitability), for less than half the price of the 5 figure superbikes that we seem to be more & more willing to accept as status quo.
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 2
  7. roflbox

    roflbox roflborx

    Rep/Likes:
    41 / 603
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,702
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    hah, saw that video on youtube, identified the locations in that as local to me :D
    lake crab tree, and a skatepark in Raleigh.
     
  8. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK
    Is Mongoose HQ somewhere near there too?
     
  9. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 684
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,510
    Location:
    Australia
    Absolutely this. Good geometry doesn't cost more to make. There's no good reason why an aluminium Patrol/Scout etc costs more than a carbon Trek or Giant.
     
  10. roflbox

    roflbox roflborx

    Rep/Likes:
    41 / 603
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,702
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Good question, would like to ride with Chris Akrigg for sure
     
  11. roflbox

    roflbox roflborx

    Rep/Likes:
    41 / 603
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,702
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    not from what I can tell from their or their parent company :(
     
  12. D.E.T.

    D.E.T. Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 1
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2004
    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    NC
    The guy riding the bmx, is the Mongoose team manager and lives in Raleigh. So that is most likely the reason he was there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  13. jstuhlman

    jstuhlman We noticed.

    Rep/Likes:
    346 / 3,715
    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2009
    Messages:
    8,911
    Location:
    Cackalacka du Nord
    too bad he didn't find teh secret @jackalope - breakin' RTP huck trail!
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. roflbox

    roflbox roflborx

    Rep/Likes:
    41 / 603
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,702
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    suddenly out of nowhere, inside knowledge :D
     
  15. Happymtb.fr

    Happymtb.fr Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    14 / 168
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2016
    Messages:
    780
    Location:
    SWE
    @toodles the new Giant Trance 29 seems to be a good alternative to the SB100
     
  16. sethimus

    sethimus scroll all you want!

    Rep/Likes:
    15 / 182
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,171
    Location:
    not in Whistler anymore :/
    was that before or after your flight to the moon?
     
  17. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK
    Incase you're calling me out on it the bike is at my daughter's. I gave it to her mother 15 years ago who I believe still uses it to ride to the gym.
    The moon landing never really interested me all that much... I much preferred Stanley's work in "The Shining" and "Clockwork Orange" ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. sethimus

    sethimus scroll all you want!

    Rep/Likes:
    15 / 182
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,171
    Location:
    not in Whistler anymore :/
    it's just because you sound more and more like bing gordyn, the 8th man on the moon
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. Kiwintas

    Kiwintas Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 41
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2018
    Messages:
    68
    That trance 29 punch’s well above its weight. Got to take one for a spin when I was back in NZ just before Christmas.
    The crew I rode with were all on 160mm long low and slack bikes and we rode trails that were suited to the bikes they were riding. The trance 29 wasn’t as fast but it rolled through stuff that it had no right to with 115mm of rear travel. The only down side to it was the crappy sram brakes on it that faded on the long steep descent.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. profro

    profro Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 270
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2002
    Messages:
    5,602
    Location:
    Walden Ridge
    I am REALLY intrigued by the Factory Murmur...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. Lelandjt

    Lelandjt Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 98
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,684
    Location:
    Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
    No, but he was the first person with the clout to convince a major company to build an XC frame with good geometry and shock rate. Before that it was nobodies like you and me putting together bikes like that and racing them to midpack finishes while the fit guys at the front were too stubborn to see the light. After the Nino bike came out you saw a wave of companies lengthening and slacking their XC bikes.
     
  22. toodles

    toodles Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    30 / 684
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Messages:
    2,510
    Location:
    Australia
    I'd originally dismissed them because the Giant seat angles were always terrible but I had a quick play on a Large (I'm probably medium) over in NZ last week and they're pretty damn alright. Will try to pinch a medium one for a demo ride sometime.
     
  23. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK
    *sigh*
     
  24. slimshady

    slimshady ¡Mira, una ardilla!

    Rep/Likes:
    51 / 620
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    La Plata, Argentina
    #2304 -   Mar 6, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  25. ianjenn

    ianjenn Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    16 / 280
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    2,481
    Location:
    SLO
  26. roflbox

    roflbox roflborx

    Rep/Likes:
    41 / 603
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,702
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    Hopefully yeti releases their ebike soon

    I am reeaaaaaaaaaaalllllyyyy looking forward to that
     
    • Horns Horns x 1
  27. jackalope

    jackalope Mental acuity - 1%

    Rep/Likes:
    247 / 1,678
    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Messages:
    5,699
    Location:
    in a single wide, cooking meth...
    It better be called the "Yet-E" and have the bigfoot headbadge throwing lightning bolts.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
  28. xy9ine

    xy9ine Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 127
    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,717
    Location:
    vancouver eastside
    seems incredibly hard to regulate. ie, verification of speed restriction & battery capacity. lots of potential for very hard to catch hacks.

    pitchforks aside, what *might* be interesting, is a race format that removes the climbing factor from the equation - ie, e-enduro. Eenudo. would essentially be a self-shuttled multi stage dh race, taking ~half the time of a typical enduro. sounds kinda fun, actually.
     
  29. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    29 / 285
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    9,400
    Location:
    Warsaw :/
    I'd rather they created a more manly idiotic race format. Like some no stage, long as hell enduro race where the rider who sleeps the least wins (also bring your own hammock or get DQd)
     
  30. djjohnr

    djjohnr Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    22 / 432
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2002
    Messages:
    1,806
    Location:
    Northern California
    Full contact dual slalom with cattle prods
     
    • Horns Horns x 1
  31. StiHacka

    StiHacka Compensating for something

    Rep/Likes:
    331 / 3,662
    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    11,154
    Location:
    i͓̽t͓̽ i͓̽s͓̽ fu͓̽l͓̽l͓̽ o͓̽f s͓̽t͓̽a͓̽r͓̽s͓̽
    Now you've said too much.
     
  32. rockofullr

    rockofullr confused

    Rep/Likes:
    118 / 876
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2009
    Messages:
    7,341
    Location:
    East Bay, Cali
    4X??
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    29 / 285
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    9,400
    Location:
    Warsaw :/
    It's called four cross and we already tried it
     
  34. djjohnr

    djjohnr Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    22 / 432
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2002
    Messages:
    1,806
    Location:
    Northern California
    I was thinking more along the lines of having track crossover/head to head cattle prod jousting sections.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  35. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    391 / 3,878
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    53,933
    Location:
    media blackout
    dual downhill.
     
  36. roflbox

    roflbox roflborx

    Rep/Likes:
    41 / 603
    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,702
    Location:
    Raleigh, NC
    what about tandem slalom, rider on the back gets the cattle prod
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  37. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK
    That was a thing too. Almost 20 years back to the day Redbull put one on here (*Innerieithen, scotland). invite only and ran it at night.
    A DH track was put together a little wider and straighter than the usual tight narrow tracks we have here, lips were built into blind landings, Elite/Expert riders contacted at short notice turned up with cobbled together lights, ropey uplifts took them to the top to race, While racing 'tog's waited in the tree with flashes to set off off into riders eyes as they tried to negotiate wet root strewn corners.
    No crocs or sharks would take the gig as it was too cold.

    *The one place with even more history as a DH venue in Scotland than Ft William
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  38. boostindoubles

    boostindoubles Nacho Libre

    Rep/Likes:
    125 / 1,465
    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,026
    Location:
    Yakistan
    Halfpipe jousting could be a fun thing.
     
  39. Gary

    Gary "S" is for "neo-luddite"

    Rep/Likes:
    47 / 697
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    2,663
    Location:
    UK


    dunno about "fun"

    Reservoir Dogs was a "fun" movie though, eh?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  40. canadmos

    canadmos Cake Tease

    Rep/Likes:
    249 / 4,780
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    9,237
    Location:
    Canaderp
    This is pretty minor compared to WhatsActuallyWrongWithTheIndustry, but we do have some Packaging Enginerds here.

    Has anyone purchased a Sram Eagle shifter recently? I got one in the mail last night and lol'd at the size of the box it came in. The box for the shifter is bigger than the Eagle cassette box.