does anyone know the price for a Ti spring for a 2008 Fox DHX w/ a 3.24 stroke? like 300lb.
also, what are the advantages of a Ti spring? any disadvantages?
also, what are the advantages of a Ti spring? any disadvantages?
Ti spring price
- Thread starter TWeerts
- Start date
advantage: its light
disadvantage: "you spent how much??!! for a spring?!!"
disadvantage: "you spent how much??!! for a spring?!!"
we talking light as in a pound or two, or like a gram or two?
people say they perform better as well
No, they feel the EXACT same. People are just retarded.
It's too bad those people are spreading false information
they look cool 
Easy.
With an electrical resistivity of (20 °C) 0.420 µΩ·m and a thermal conductivity of (300 K) 21.9 W·m−1·K−1, we can deduce:
2TiFeO3 + 7Cl2 + 6C (900 °C) → 2TiCl4 + 2FeCl3 + 6CO
TiCl4 + 2Mg (1100 °C) → 2MgCl2 + Ti
therefor
25 °C) 8.6 µm·m−1·K−1
titanium=light.
titanium=expensive.
With an electrical resistivity of (20 °C) 0.420 µΩ·m and a thermal conductivity of (300 K) 21.9 W·m−1·K−1, we can deduce:
2TiFeO3 + 7Cl2 + 6C (900 °C) → 2TiCl4 + 2FeCl3 + 6CO
TiCl4 + 2Mg (1100 °C) → 2MgCl2 + Ti
therefor
25 °C) 8.6 µm·m−1·K−1titanium=light.
titanium=expensive.
The TI spring won't rust....!
Pretty expensive,but they save weight if you have the cash.I would just run steel & be happy with that.
Pretty expensive,but they save weight if you have the cash.I would just run steel & be happy with that.
serious bling factor w the ti and weight savings is probably a good value considering what ppl spend to save a few grams.
that is all
that is all
Not necessarily, spring weights are based on static displacements. So you could theoretically get a plastic spring that has the same spring rate. But I think its going to feel different.
Dynamic loads are different than static loads, the spring has less mass, is wound different, and is a different material.
I have not seen hard data myself, but I don't find it out of the question to believe it would perform a little different.
I know I am gonna get flamed for this, but in MY OPINION, the shock felt a little more active with the TI spring then with the metal spring.
coming back to topic, I got the same spring you are looking to get for around 250
It's really not a matter that is capable of having an opinion. If you felt it was more active, it was probably because the spring rate was lower than your steel one.
The tolerances in a ti spring are better than a steel one so its likely that your TI spring has a lower spring rate than your Steel one. Given an exact comparision of a ti vs a steel spring if both are the exact same measured spring rate, you couldn't tell.
I've never heard that before and none of the ones I owned have done it... just my 2 cents.
I switched from a steel to a ti spring on my 6 way, and it did feel a little better. Not a huge diff by any means, but as many had said, it did feel more active, and supple over small bumps.
Jason
What physics do you have to back up your statements that Ti is the same as steel?
Sure, in a static application it is the same. However, in a dynamic application it is different. The unsprung mass is lower. Furthermore, Ti have different elastic properties.
For all that some of you are weight wennies, I would think you would be all over Ti springs. My measurements show a typically 0.5 - 0.75 pound savings with Ti springs. That will affect suspension performance. Probably noticably.
Let's be serious, you guys are discussing light weight brakes in another thread. That is a tradeoff with perfomance. With the Ti spring, you get lighter and better peformance with a reasonable cost per gram saved.
What physics do you have to back up your statements that Ti is the same as steel?
Sure, in a static application it is the same. However, in a dynamic application it is different. The unsprung mass is lower. Furthermore, Ti have different elastic properties.
For all that some of you are weight wennies, I would think you would be all over Ti springs. My measurements show a typically 0.5 - 0.75 pound savings with Ti springs. That will affect suspension performance. Probably noticably.
Let's be serious, you guys are discussing light weight brakes in another thread. That is a tradeoff with perfomance. With the Ti spring, you get lighter and better peformance with a reasonable cost per gram saved.
for the same reason that sugar pills cure some people of depression. it's all in your head.
spring weight is a measure of how much weight it takes to compress a spring 1". so, a 300# spring, whether made of ti, steal, plastic, or chuck noriss's pubic hair, will require 300lb to compress it; no more, no less. only way the 2 would feel different is if one was preloaded more than the other.
not trying to knock the aftermarket tuners out there, but i would be willing to bet that many riders who send their shocks out for service could be given the exact shock back with new stickers and they would rave about how much better it felt. Case in point, Transcend and I had a teammate years ago who wanted the same proto shocks we had. the tech. from our suspension sponsor just cleaned it off and slapped on some "prototype" stickers and he loved it.
If it feels different it's becasue you want it to
Never said "Ti is the same as steel" in the metallurgical sense but personally i've tried both ti/steel springs for the same rating and i couldn't tell the difference. I'd bet most people couldn't tell the difference.
The weight savings of a ti spring are definitely a good ratio for most dh shocks without a doubt.
dw has said that spring rate is identical with ti and steel. Spring rate is a measurement of force/distance. The difference in spring WEIGHT and unsprung mass equates to about the same difference as removing the 18T cog only from your rear cassette.
The weight savings of a ti spring are definitely a good ratio for most dh shocks without a doubt.
dw has said that spring rate is identical with ti and steel. Spring rate is a measurement of force/distance. The difference in spring WEIGHT and unsprung mass equates to about the same difference as removing the 18T cog only from your rear cassette.
Dude, I tried that and I could totally feel the difference. My back shocks worked so much better over the moguls.
Ive got 2 1 on my Fox and 1 on my Avy. Ill run nothing but Ti, between the weight and bling alone. 
They do feel a bit different, maybe in my head but it does feel a little more reactive to small bump and sensetivity (less jiggle down the trail).
Isnt Ti more reactive then steel hence ti parts will flex vs steel which stay true till breakage due inpart to fatigue?
I thought Ti also held its spring rate better than steel.
They do feel a bit different, maybe in my head but it does feel a little more reactive to small bump and sensetivity (less jiggle down the trail).
Isnt Ti more reactive then steel hence ti parts will flex vs steel which stay true till breakage due inpart to fatigue?
I thought Ti also held its spring rate better than steel.
They weight those statically, but the spring functions dynamically. I'm still not fully convinced there is NO difference; however there may be only a small difference. The bike's suspension type and compression ratio may affect it too, so I'd think some bikes you couldn't feel a difference, and some you can.
Bill Brasky makes Ti spring by wrapping titanium wire around his cock.
These two statements conflict with each other. Yes, since the acceleration and displacement of the spring are less than the wheel due to what is commonly refered to as the leverage ratio. Also, effectly, only half of the spring is moving. However, it does make a difference.
Physics/dynamics and dyno graphs don't lie. Please post up your math to prove that a 18 T gear has the same effect as a 3/4 lb spring.
I'll agree that the placebo effect is real. I do it all the time with a couple of my riders with confidence problems. Every mechanic does this with their riders.
I did not post that. That is what dw posted. I figure he's a smart guy and has done the math to say that.
My only point in this whole post was to say that its mostly a placebo that people are "feeling" a difference.
Here you are:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2514808#post2514808
and how, you may ask, does the heavier spring account for about as much unsprung mass as the lighter 18t cog? I would assume it has everything to do with rotation and leverage.
whatever difference people claim they can feel is either the placebo effect or their inability to swap springs without maintaining the same preload.
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2514808#post2514808
and how, you may ask, does the heavier spring account for about as much unsprung mass as the lighter 18t cog? I would assume it has everything to do with rotation and leverage.
whatever difference people claim they can feel is either the placebo effect or their inability to swap springs without maintaining the same preload.
So you are saying steel reacts identical to Ti in this application that it infact has no properties that would allow it to compress more evenly and true over time as well as fatigue less thus keeping a true spring rate over time.
Just asking, I've always been under the assumtion that Ti holds a spring rate longer.
There is a small unsprung weight difference....IMO not enough to make ANY difference, for several reasons.
The sprung/unsprung weight ratio of a mtb is very 'poor'. The % change in going to a ti spring (in which it can be modeled that 1/2 of the spring is 'unspring') is very small. This unsprung weight of the spring is also near central to the pivot, thus the change in momentum due to the change in mass is again minimal.
As far as material properties.....there are some, but remember that the intire system is damped. Ti as a metal may be able to 'react' faster, but the reaction of a steel spring is already too fast..thus rebound damping. There are also some harmonic property differences....that again do not matter for this application as the frequency input to the system is nowhere near the harmonics of either steel of ti.
ANY felt difference is one of two things.
1 the tollerance of ti springs is MUCH smaller than steel (ie you actually get a 450# spring not a 400 - 500# spring).
2 pay a lot of $$ for anything and you will want to justify it.
The sprung/unsprung weight ratio of a mtb is very 'poor'. The % change in going to a ti spring (in which it can be modeled that 1/2 of the spring is 'unspring') is very small. This unsprung weight of the spring is also near central to the pivot, thus the change in momentum due to the change in mass is again minimal.
As far as material properties.....there are some, but remember that the intire system is damped. Ti as a metal may be able to 'react' faster, but the reaction of a steel spring is already too fast..thus rebound damping. There are also some harmonic property differences....that again do not matter for this application as the frequency input to the system is nowhere near the harmonics of either steel of ti.
ANY felt difference is one of two things.
1 the tollerance of ti springs is MUCH smaller than steel (ie you actually get a 450# spring not a 400 - 500# spring).
2 pay a lot of $$ for anything and you will want to justify it.
I got mine based on weight. Thats the main reason 2nd to the fact I thought the dont fatigue like steele.
Ti does have better fatigue properties, but without knowing what kind of stress levels the spring is seeing, a steel spring could easily outlive a ti one.
I cant ever recall seeing a steel or ti bike shock spring either taking a significant set or breaking....
Don't get me wrong, I am in full support of ti springs (due to weight savings)..it is just that some of the claims get a little far fetched.
I cant ever recall seeing a steel or ti bike shock spring either taking a significant set or breaking....
Don't get me wrong, I am in full support of ti springs (due to weight savings)..it is just that some of the claims get a little far fetched.
when did i begin talking about fatigue life and maintaining spring rate over time?
the correct answer is never. it takes about a 3rd grade level of reading comprehension to figure that out.
everyone who "noticed a difference" seems to be implying that it was immediately obvious. again, this has nothing to do with keeping a true spring rate over time.
best to understand what you've read before responding.
They look better and weigh less. If you're on a budget then dont buy one. Enough said
I'd love to dyno identically weighed steel and ti springs back to back just to find out.
In my opinion - I love em cos they're light as. It's a pity they cos so fricken much because I prefer coil shocks over air yet can't be stuffed dropping so much coin for the springs.
In my opinion - I love em cos they're light as. It's a pity they cos so fricken much because I prefer coil shocks over air yet can't be stuffed dropping so much coin for the springs.
and it WILL affect your wallet more.
Not possible... we know a 300x3.0 fox steel spring weighs ~520g, and a 300x3.0 ti spring definitely doesn't weigh 190g. I'd say it'd weigh in the region of 300g, making the weight saving more like 220g.
Hard to give exact figures especially with the variance in weights between different brand ti springs but I reckon that's pretty close.
It's the only way to lighten a bike without any strength/durability issues, in most cases anyway.
Face it people Ti is faster and springs MORE. There be done with it.