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Time for new Brakes: Hope? Formula? Magura?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by erikkellison, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. erikkellison

    erikkellison Monkey

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    So, I'm currently rocking the Hope Mono M4's with floating rotors, black CNC calipers, etc etc. I was thinking about rebuilding them but I'm on the fence as to whether they need it. The front feels a little funny, and a bleed may make them feel great, but basically the real truth is that I'm a gear whore, and I want new brakes. I have considered the cost of swapping them to new levers, new hoses, new seals and fluid and all the tools for the job, and it's about the same as me selling them after a bleed and buying new brakes. So, embracing my gear-whoredness, I am shopping.

    I need enough power for DH (I weigh 200lbs w/ gear), so I'm planning on using 8" rotors, and riding Garbanzo on my Nomad. But, I also ride trails a lot with the same bike, so I'd like the setup to be relatively lightweight. I have my Nomad in at 34lbs with UST 2.35 Nevy's, a Fox 40 (7" mode so I don't get flamed), CCDB and other DH-worthy parts that are still light. So what I'm asking is this:
    What's the best setup you can think of that will give me enough power and still not be too heavy? The current frontrunners are as follows:

    New version of Hope Mono M4's w/ upgrade to Dangerboy Levers
    Pros: I know they work, and they're pretty light
    Cons: I've never really tried anything else besides the old Shimano XT's, so I might be missing out on something better - my arms do get tired on Garbanzo, so maybe more power is being called for?

    Hope Moto VR's
    Pros: Most power and modulation on the market (supposedly)
    Cons: Weight! These things will add a total of 1 lb to the weight of my bike, which is depressing considering how hard I work to keep it light (but brakes are pretty important)

    Formula The One: Good? Bad?
    Pros: Supposedly powerful w/ good modulation, lightweight
    Cons: Possibly not as reliable or as good-performing as M4's - I don't really know since I don't know anyone who has compared them to Mono M4's. Also, good-feeling aftermarket levers might be hard to find.

    I am open to any related input. I want good modulation, good reliability, good power and lightweight. I don't want Hayes, Avids or Shimanos. I am willling to consider Magura. What I would love most is to get some brakes that make it so I can ride Garbanzo more than once without getting massive arm cramp (brake less - go faster, right?). But I only ride Whistler 5 times a year. So, while power is important, it is not the majority of my riding. I'd be willing to swap some weight savings in exchange for power and long-descent performance just so that when I do ride Garby, it is a great experience. I need to lose weight anyway, so a few extra grams on the brakes might help! :)

    Thanks!!
     

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  2. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

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    Go with the Formulas with some Aftermarket levers from Tyler at Twenty6.
     
  3. BlackAthlete

    BlackAthlete Monkey

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    +1 on the Formulas
     
  4. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    Formula One or Magura Luise Carbon. Best ratio of power/weight for sure.
     
  5. ridiculous

    ridiculous Turbo Monkey

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    another vote for the formulas.
     
  6. bullcrew

    bullcrew Turbo Monkey

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    +2 for that set up!
    Ive rocked Hope 6tis long and hard and the only brake to be on par with them was the ones they were right there as far as power/fade/modulation! My Oro biancos were close but not as powerful.
     
  7. -C-

    -C- Monkey

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    Another vote for the Formula's. I've been running them for about 8 months now & they are spot on. Very light for what they are too.
     
  8. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    I have been on Hopes for a while..

    The new silver M4s will have a touch more power than your black ones due to the new lever...they are also a bit lighter. I would say, however that the single biggest improvement/change in performance I have seen with Hopes (and brakes in general) is pad compound. IMO, the stock Hope compound is not as high a friction compound as some others use and thus some lack of 'power'. Although they dont last super long, EBC reds (or similar)can make a BIG difference compared to some stock pads.

    Ones look great, and the huge piston should give great mech advantage to create a LOT of force at the caliper. I have seriously thight about getting a set to try out.....
    However, I have to say they are WAY overpriced. (significantly more than M4s yet the M4s are fully machined, multiple pistons, light weight 2-piece rotors....for less money)

    The mfg process used by Formula is on par with shimano or avid..nothing special, yet you can get a set of saints or Juicys for 1/3 the price of the formulas......(if you want the 2 piece rotors, add even more $$)
    The differentiation from one brake to another in the formula line also does not justify the price differences IMO...
     
  9. rockwool

    rockwool Turbo Monkey

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    I saw you sold them and got surprised as I thought they were the dogs. To bad somebody beat me to them.. Anyways, I thought I would dish out for the Ones instead of Oro Biancos so that I could use 180mm rotors F/R for my do it all bike, do you think I will get away with that? (I'm 70kg BTW)

    I'm with you about some Formulas being over priced, specially the Ones (the Megas are ok though). I didn't use to be like this before the world woke up when the Honda team started using Oros and all bike mags were giving them good rep. Actually, they sold for less than Hayes Mag on Chainreactioncycles back then... They sure are gettinging all that finacial loss back now. :rant:
     
  10. TheMontashu

    TheMontashu Pourly Tatteued Jeu

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    I have a bunch of time on oros and ones, the ones are simply the best brakes out. Insaine amount of power, crazy modulation, light, easy to work on, and the service is amazing. I have dealt personely with formula, and they are incredible to deal with. A couple buddies have dealt with them to and have had the same experience. Good company making great brakes, go for the ones
     
  11. TheMontashu

    TheMontashu Pourly Tatteued Jeu

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    Take a look at the formulas again, the quality is far above anything avid or shimano does, the levers on the ones are INSAINE with all kinds of CNC bits
     
  12. dhrookie

    dhrookie Monkey

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    how much for your old hopes?
     
  13. bullcrew

    bullcrew Turbo Monkey

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    I had 2 sets :D I still have a set of the ones with SS lines on the Jedi!
    They are the $hit no doubt, Biancos rocked but the ones are a definent flagship brake and yes you would be fine sporting a 180mm rotor. The cool really well, better than my old Hopes and biancos. (Not that I had any issues really with those they were the best brakes Id used till THE ONES)
     
  14. S.K.C.

    S.K.C. Turbo Monkey

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    I have Formula ONE's on my Sunday, and the stopping power they have compared to say, Hayes Mags is UNREAL. Tapping the rear brake is like dropping anchor. It's almost like tying one end of a bungee cord to your seatpost and the other to a tree and then riding away. Great modulation too.

    One issue I have with them is getting a good bleed on them - reading the directions does seem to fix this problem... :biggrin: because in my haste I forgot to. Point the lever body and the bleed screw directly upwards while bleeding the system. Use an Avid or Formula bleed kit too - the syringes really help a ton.
     
  15. rockwool

    rockwool Turbo Monkey

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    Bastard. I guess we're gonna have to start a "rate your bike whoreness" thread in your honour some day. :twitch:

    PM me if/when you're selling the other pair..
     
  16. bullcrew

    bullcrew Turbo Monkey

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    goin back to cali, cali, cali, goin back to cali!
    lmao!
    I got a steal on my stuff (not literally), just got some smokin prices from friends! :D
     
  17. rockwool

    rockwool Turbo Monkey

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    Good friends, so you didn't even have to say the classic "good for me, good for you" line to get them huh?
     
  18. erikkellison

    erikkellison Monkey

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    Well so far I like the feedback I'm getting :) Seems like a lot of people think I should go with the Formula's. I'm surprised to not hear anything in favor of the Hopes!
    Oh, and I would really appreciate if if y'all would make it clear if you've actually used the brakes you're talking about, and to what extent. For instance, I have "used" the Oro Bianco's on a friends, bike, but not enough to pronounce any opinion on them. I definitely appreciate opinions from avid users of the brakes in question as I can e-speculate all day long. I'm looking for some opinions from users.
    On a side note, I see that Greg Minaar uses The Ones - that doesn't say much to me because he's good at NOT using his brakes. I'm not that good, and have to use mine more. I'm looking for some brakes that might be famous if there was a competition that actually required intense brake use.
     
  19. TheMontashu

    TheMontashu Pourly Tatteued Jeu

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    where is Brian??? I'm waiting for a 5 page persuasive essay on why hopes are the best
     
  20. davep

    davep Turbo Monkey

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    I have looked at them plenty. They may have a better finish than you get with shimano or avid, (more time on the pollishing wheel) but the mfg technology and materials are no different.

    Complete Jucy 7s are HALF the price of 'the one' WITHOUT rotors or adapters. Six bolt saints are about 65% of the price of 'ones', agian without rotors.....
    Complete Hope M4s are the same price of ones w/o rotors or adapters..and are certainly a more expensive mfg process if for nothing else than the 2 piece rotor and the multiple pistons.

    now add rotors to the Formulas....that is another $80 for the stainless rotor. Now if you happen to own a boxxer (more $$ for some reason), and want a 2 piece 220 mm rotor, add $175 for the rotor and adapter for ONE WHEEL.......

    Ones with basic steel rotors are about the same price as Hope V2s.....except with the V2s you get a full machined caliper and MC, a two piece floating VENTED rotor, stainless lines.......


    Nothing against the performance of formula, but someone in Italy is certainly cashing in on their current trendy brakes.
     
    #20 -   Jun 12, 2008
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2008
  21. Alloy

    Alloy Monkey

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    I used Formula Oro Biancos, and love them for all the shuttle riding around CA. I hate them on ski lifts, when they get hot they seem to lose friction and quit working... this is with both pad compounds. I was getting hand sprains from squeezing my brakes so hard.

    I have Hope Motos on now... these brakes are awesome, great modulation, great power, they never fade, and they seem to be completely unaffected by heat. If they did start getting too hot I can put the vented rotors and solve the problem, but those rotor are really heavy. Also right now I think they have air in the lines as I have to pump them sometimes... I haven't tried to bleed them yet, but I'm guessing that would fix the problem.

    I ran Maguras Louis Carbon for awhile last year, then gave them to my buddy... we joke that you have the fastest race runs on those brakes. You can decipher the meaning of that yourself. Also they were a pain to break in. I had to do a shuttle run down the pavement before they were good.
     
  22. mushik

    mushik Chimp

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    i'm also thinking of swapping my Codes with Formulas. One good reason would be the weight. I had made the following simple calculation (weights in GRAMS taken from sicklines):
    comparison.JPG

    this shouldn't be the first reason, as the brakes are the most important piece of metal on our bikes (life dependable ;), but still - a 340 gr weight saving is not something to look over...i'm going to see the real cost for this saving though :brow:
     
  23. erikkellison

    erikkellison Monkey

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    I think if I get the Formulas that I'll get the non-floating rotors because as sweet as those red spiders look, they're over twice the price of 8" one piece rotors and supposedly weigh the same. Plus, my ano theme is blue, not red.
    Does anyone have any opinions on the difference between the Megas and The Ones? To me, the only real differences seem like a tad more fluid capacity and a 20g weight savings per brake in favor of the Ones, but they're $125 more.
     
  24. rockwool

    rockwool Turbo Monkey

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    From what I can see by reading about them the only difference is weight and the FCS pad contact system. It's like the Juicy 7 that has that red knob over the 5's.
    I belive they have the same fluid capacity.
     
  25. erikkellison

    erikkellison Monkey

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    I read an article somewhere (searched through Google) and found out that the calipers are different in their fluid capacities, but it's not much of a difference. The pistons are the same size, but The One's are a tad more fade resistant due to more fluid taking more heat to lead to fade. I'm not sure if this is noticeable, but they are different.
    I'm leaning toward the Mega's now due to the $120 savings - I can get a complete set for $436 with 8" one piece rotors.
     
  26. bullcrew

    bullcrew Turbo Monkey

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    As far as actuall use, I put 27 hours of resort riding on my formula the ones on mem weekend, and shuttled a couple of huge mtns. They rock in 32 degree weather and 1oo degree (yes our weather changed that much between SS and the IE).
    The Biancos rocked with bigger rotors and never had a problem with them, Rode them over a year.
    Hopes (mono 6ti) I have 2 years on and loved them inbetween I tried other brakes and wasnt impressed till formulas.
    As far as comparing a juicy 7 to the one thats like comparing a scooter to a motorcycle as far as power. I have faded the crap out of avids a few times, Ive had rotors pinging and red hot on my 6tis and never had a issue as well as I have rode my formulas as well HARD from time to time and no fade.
    Brakes I have had fade bad: Hayes mags, Avids 7, Hayes 9, shimano xt and of course I bubbled a tire with magura HS22 hydraulic rim brakes :D.
     
  27. Brian HCM#1

    Brian HCM#1 MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!

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    Sorry it took a while.....................



    BUY HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
     
  28. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    ...you mean almost like "hopping off and walking your bike" good? :busted:
     
  29. erikkellison

    erikkellison Monkey

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    I think this sealed the deal...
    I'm going to get a set of Formula Megas.
     
  30. TheMontashu

    TheMontashu Pourly Tatteued Jeu

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    What are you going to do after you ride around on some ones and realize how much better than hopes they are