[the BIG cheese]

Here are a few letters written to The New York Times regarding tipping in the service industry....As a waiter/cook, I must say this guy's crusade against it is utter bull****! Who the hell does he think he is? I just wish I had the chance to wait on him...."Roaches? I don't see any roaches in your salad sir!"

To the Editor:

Another reason to applaud restaurateurs who choose no-tipping policies and included service charges is that these policies help thwart income tax cheating. Although the rules were changed some years ago to ensure that at least a certain portion of gratuities are reported on the recipients' tax returns, a significant amount of tips remains unreported.

This is one critical but unstated reason that many servers and restaurateurs oppose any change. But those of us who pay our fair share of income taxes resent picking up the tab for those who do not.

Joey Eisen
Stamford, Conn., Aug. 10, 2005
The writer is a certified public accountant.


Steven A. Shaw is right to challenge the simplistic "reward good service, punish bad service" rationale for making restaurant servers rely on tips for much of their income.

The system benefits owners more than workers, and the servers' earnings may end up depending on the tables they're assigned, the kitchen's efficiency, the customer's mood and other factors beyond their control.

What appears to be an exercise in economic rationality often turns out to be unfair. It's more likely to promote resentment and rivalry than excellence. To that extent, tipping is no different from incentive plans, bonuses and "pay for performance" schemes in other workplaces.

Alfie Kohn
Belmont, Mass., Aug. 10, 2005

To the Editor:

Re "Tipped Off," by Steven A. Shaw (Op-Ed, Aug. 10):

Restaurants and other businesses should charge what they need to pay their employees decently, and neither servers nor customers should have to enter into their present demeaning and anxious relationship.

Americans assume that without tipping, service would diminish. That's a nasty vision of our fellow citizens, that they will do a decent job only when bribed.

Having traveled throughout Asia, I can testify that service there is impeccable and that tipping - of servers, bellhops, cabdrivers and so on - is neither expected nor allowed.

Indeed, such workers consider a tip an insult to their professions. As one Japanese waiter jokingly put it to me in his halting English: "This my job. You want me to tip you for your job?"

Michael Aaron Rockland
Morristown, N.J., Aug. 10, 2005

 

[the BIG cheese]

The colum : http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/10/opinion/10shaw.html

 

[Transcend]

I agree with him. pay the employees a decent wage and abolish tipping. As much as i think it can improve service. waiters suffer far too much from a kitchen's incompetence at times.

Of course, some waiters deserve a kick in the teeth as a tip...

 

[the BIG cheese]

I agree with him. pay the employees a decent wage and abolish tipping. As much as i think it can improve service. waiters suffer far too much from a kitchen's incompetence at times.

Of course, some waiters deserve a kick in the teeth as a tip...

Agreed, some do deserve a kick in the teeth and a job digging ditches. And yes, there are factors that are beyond our control (guest's mood, kitchen, ect.). Although, I must say, tipping allowed me to put myself through the last two years of highschool without having to work outrageous hours and neglecting my studies. At $7 an hour working as line cook, matched against almost 16$ an hour waiting on multiple people is no contest. Plus there is no way the restaurant can compete with that figure per hour. And ontop of all that, the 2.13 I was making an hour basicly covered my taxes.

 

[Crash_Tested]

I agree with him. pay the employees a decent wage and abolish tipping. As much as i think it can improve service. waiters suffer far too much from a kitchen's incompetence at times.

Of course, some waiters deserve a kick in the teeth as a tip...

that how its done in europe.


and the service sucks ass. and there are ways to ensure you get top notch service from the kitchen as a waiter......beer for the cooks will increase your tips.

 

[Warped]

I think all restaurants should include a 15% gratuity in the check. Problem solved. (although that would actually hurt some servers)

 

[manziman]

I think all restaurants should include a 15% gratuity in the check. Problem solved. (although that would actually hurt some servers)

or it could give them less incentive to work. If the tip is already included in the tab, they won't have to work as hard since the money is already there. I've worked in the food service industry and busted my balls for tips, which paid off.

 

[Velocity Girl]

It's a double-edged sword.....as the article stated there are many advantages and disadvantages of the tipping practice. I was a waitress and the worst thing is when thing is when people don't understand the difference between your service and the kitchen's service. But on the flip side, it's nice when you've busted your butt and made a table happy and they tip accordingly....instant gratificatin that it was a job well done.

 

[Flakey Jake]

I've been workin my way through college as a bartender at a restaurant. It's a great job, I make good money because of tips. Sure sometimes servers in restaurants r rude and dont deserve a tip and possibly deserve a "kick in the teeth" as Transcend puts it. But more often than not it's the rude customer who deserves the kick in the teeth. And I've found that most people who are against tipping are really just cheap skates. While I think it's smart to be frugal with your money, being a cheap skate is nothing to be proud of, it's just another form of selfishness. As far as having the tip included, my experience in Europe was that the servers could care less about service for the most part because the tip was included. Having said that I did eat at places in Europe where they were every bit as friendly and the service was every bit as good as it is in the U.S.. Tipping in Restaurants is a tradition that has been around for a long time, and it's also a way for a lot of people (particularly single moms) to afford a decent living. We're the richest country in the world, we can afford to tip.

 

[Transcend]

I think all restaurants should include a 15% gratuity in the check. Problem solved. (although that would actually hurt some servers)

.
No - this i would be opposed to. either raise their wage, or leave it as an optional amount. If i get crappy service, no ketchup,water empty, things forgotten etc - i sure as hell am not giving them a 15% tip.

Raising wages however, is semi transparent to the guest, and if i get crappy service then, oh well. But telling me I HAVE to subsidize your incompetent waitstaff by rewarding them with a 15% tip.. I don't think so

 

[reflux]

And I've found that most people who are against tipping are really just cheap skates.

I've also come to realize that a lot of people who are against tipping have never worked as a waiter or waitress, or have spent a minimal amount of time in food service. After how ever many years and jobs later, the restaurant gig was still one of the most stressful jobs I've ever had.

 

[Spunger]

This is a funny subject. Before I really started going out and what not I always just left a buck tip. Never really thought about it in the sense of the working class. I always just doubled the tax. When I went to Hawaii and the tax was so much less I just kept to what I am use to for tips.

If the service is great I have not a single problem leaving 15 or 20% if that's what it calls for. If it's horrible then they don't get as much or anything at all. In a way I don't feel too sorry for people who work off of tips because they took the job. They took the job knowing how the industry of tipping and their low pay is. If you're giving a tip that means you earned it, tips aren't mandatory to give. It's not a right to get a tip, it's a privledge.

But.....I think it's BS when they wait staff and cooks have to split their tips multiple ways because the hostess needs hers, cooks, washers whatever. If anything the cooks should be getting paid the highest, then the waiters, and lowest on the pole the stupid hostess and busers. It should be treated like any other job involving skill. Tips should go to who deserves them, cooks/waiters. Not the stupid hostess.

And the mandatory 15% or whatever alot of places charge you for a larger party......depending on what you get it works or fails. You could have a group of 10 go in and get appitizers and waters.........so your 15% ain't much. Or they could go in a drink like nuts and eat.......and guess what, you worked your butt off for a party of 10, should get tipped excellent because of the drinks ordered and such, and all you get is your 15% to split with everyone else.

I understand tips as I use to get tipped in the computer industry (did alot of extra, not on my job duties for customers). Every now and then someone would throw $10-20 my way, for comming out late or just fixing their problem so quickly. I had one extremely nice client who tipped me $500 (no joke) for comming over after hours and fixing his stuff. I miss those days.

It's a job that I feel bad for when you see older people at it, because you know after working with the public they really do suck most of the time. At higher end resturants it gets better/worst in their own ways. I just hate any job where it's working for tips or comission because your pay is so varied it makes it hard to determine how to live. One pay period you're living off top raman, next one you're eating steaks you know?

But that is what teen's and collage kids are for, alot could care less because they know it's a temp job to just get them through. But for adults I dunno how you could do it for so many years. It is such a stressfull job.

 

[Warped]

or it could give them less incentive to work. If the tip is already included in the tab, they won't have to work as hard since the money is already there. I've worked in the food service industry and busted my balls for tips, which paid off.

Some included gratuity as well as encouraging people to add what they see fit???

 

[JRB]

A bad thing about tips is tables just staying. I was at the Cheescake Factory on Friday and the group didn't want to leave. I finally said something about them costing her money, and they agreed to leave.

 

[Crazy Sweeper]

I hate how some waitstaff always assumes its the customer who is being cheap, and not themselves providing poor service. I personally start at 20% and go up from there when tipping. I know numerous occasions where I have tipped almost 50% because the service was that good. However if the service sucks I give 15% to the penny. And when it's so bad that I'll never be back, I do the upside down glass trick.

 

[N8 v2.0]

I hope The Big Cheese is OK!!!!

Anyone heard from him?

 

[SkaredShtles]

A bad thing about tips is tables just staying. I was at the Cheescake Factory on Friday and the group didn't want to leave.

Why should people feel pressure to *leave* a restaurant? If I'm paying money to have a nice dinner out, and want to drink coffee for two hours, I'm gonna do it.

I like a nice, liesurely 3 hour dinner once in awhile.

 

[JRB]

Why should people feel pressure to *leave* a restaurant? If I'm paying money to have a nice dinner out, and want to drink coffee for two hours, I'm gonna do it.

I like a nice, liesurely 3 hour dinner once in awhile.

A party of 9 for 2 hours is a bit excessive when there is a line.

 

[JRB]

I hope The Big Cheese is OK!!!!

Anyone heard from him?

I do to. I'll bet service really sucks there now. I have not heard from him. I wish we had known he needed a way out sooner.

 

[laura]

I hope The Big Cheese is OK!!!!

Anyone heard from him?

he's doing ok. according to tn he spent a couple of days trapped in a hospital down there and then a fellow monkey came to his rescue i believe. he's got some stories to tell.

 

[SkaredShtles]

A party of 9 for 2 hours is a bit excessive when there is a line.

At two hours you should just be finishing up with the main course..........

 

[blt2ride]

I have always been a very generous tipper. However, I usually eat at the same restaurants, so they already know that, and I get great service while I'm there...

 

[JRB]

he's doing ok. according to tn he spent a couple of days trapped in a hospital down there and then a fellow monkey came to his rescue i believe. he's got some stories to tell.

Bad ass - thanks for the down low.

 

[Senôr Lopez]

As far as tipping is concerned I almost always give the 20% at resturants. What really pisses me off is that there are tip jars in every mini mart, deli, ice cream joint, coffee shop and pizza parlor I go to. I'm all for tipping for exceptional service (or if the girl giving me a slice of pizza is hot neaky: ), but don't give me any crap if I don't give you a tip when I pay for my cup of coffee that I poured myself!!!

 

[BMXman]

.
No - this i would be opposed to. either raise their wage, or leave it as an optional amount. If i get crappy service, no ketchup,water empty, things forgotten etc - i sure as hell am not giving them a 15% tip.

Raising wages however, is semi transparent to the guest, and if i get crappy service then, oh well. But telling me I HAVE to subsidize your incompetent waitstaff by rewarding them with a 15% tip.. I don't think so

you and I are eye to eye on this....if the staff gets lazy because there's an included tip...business will suffer and they will lose customers...I doubt the owners will keep them on very long...D

 

[BMXman]

I've also come to realize that a lot of people who are against tipping have never worked as a waiter or waitress, or have spent a minimal amount of time in food service. After how ever many years and jobs later, the restaurant gig was still one of the most stressful jobs I've ever had.

I do agree to a point...I have been in the resturaunt/hospitality business for over 18 years...and I'm against tipping....the whole system needs to be reconsidered...owners need to start paying employee's appropriate wages instead of expecting the customers to to do so....D

 

[grundy]

I have no problem tipping at restaurants, and like many of the posters here I usually start at 20% and go up or down according to the level of service.

What drives me nuts, though, is all of the other tipping - ie, cab drivers, hotel workers, etc. I never know when I am supposed to tip, or how much to tip, etc. Also, I don't see the correlation to level of service.

At a restaurant or bar, having an attentive waitperson makes all of the difference in the world. The level of service is imporant, varies widely, and it makes sense to tip well in those circumstances.

But what about the bellhops or shuttle van drivers, etc. If their job is to pick up a suitcase and put it in the back of the van, drive the van, then hand the suitcase back to you, should I really tip for that? It just doesn't make sense. They should just be paid accordingly in terms of salary, and leave me out of it.

Then, I'm never sure when I should tip and when it doesn't matter. I mean, I don't want to stiff some guy who is counting on a tip... but am I really supposed to tip the guy driving the free shuttle to the rental car? It drives me nuts!

 

[sanjuro]

It is all relative. The NY Times is not advocating stiffing your wait person, but an alternative to the tipping system.

Europe is another area which does not advocate tipping, and wait staffs there are paid accordingly.

Tipping in America is no different than haggling at the auto dealership. It is expected and commonplace, and while there are exceptions (like Saturn), it is normal.

 

[odiwik]

I have no problems with tipping. I do, however, have a problem with the ease of tax evasion because of it.

 

[stinkyboy]

One of my favorite haunts employs my favorite bartender. She's very hot and works her ass off. At the end of the night, when I should be getting a $60-80 bill, I get a $5-10 bill and I leave her a $40-50 cash tip. It's a nice arrangement that neither one of us have ever talked about. It's a good thing.

Before anyone compains, I know the owner as well (who is very wealthy and he owns the bar for a place for him and his buddies to hang out) and I have spent thousands of dollars there over the years...

 

[jdcamb]

Customers that tip me are the ones I remember. They took the time to go out of the way and show some extra appreciation. I generally don't think about who's bike I am working on for the most part. But when I know it is someone's bike that has tipped me then I will generally do small tuneups on their bikes even though they only came in for a wheel true. I just run through their bikes and make sure everything is running right. Redo their bar tape or adjust the rear derailluer for free, that kind of thing. A six pack also goes a long way. I don't expect it but it is nice.

 

[BMXman]

I'm of the opinion a person should perform their job well at all times no matter the situation...pride in one's work is a big focus in my line of work.....D

 

[stinkyboy]

Customers that tip me are the ones I remember. They took the time to go out of the way and show some extra appreciation. I generally don't think about who's bike I am working on for the most part. But when I know it is someone's bike that has tipped me then I will generally do small tuneups on their bikes even though they only came in for a wheel true. I just run through their bikes and make sure everything is running right. Redo their bar tape or adjust the rear derailluer for free, that kind of thing. A six pack also goes a long way. I don't expect it but it is nice.

Thanks for bringing that up.

I take care of guys at my LBS and they do the same for me (with tuneups, deals, etc).

Who else tips their wrenchers?

 

[OGRipper]

One of the problems nobody has mentioned is that if restaurants have to pay higher wages, most will need to raise their prices - especially owner-operated places that are barely surviving. In the end you will end up paying something similar to what you were paying before, it will just be mandatory and your only recourse for poor service will be to complain or not come back. And in an industry as competitive as food service, very few are willing to raise prices, so it won't happen until the changes are forced on everyone.

I start at 15% as a guideline and go up or down depending on the quality of service. It's usually more like 20% and I can't remember ever completely stiffing a server.