Tipping.....
- Thread starter BMXman
- Start date
The service person should be paid a true wage so that tipping is not expected but given when good service is provided. I should not be expected to tip 10% for alright service because the person is pulling in below minumum wage salary since the employer expects me to pay his employees. I would have no problem tipping people 20% if they deserved it and it wasn't required of me.
Yeah, and I'm one of them too. I've lost count of how many resumes I've sent out. I even half way considered flipping burgers part-time just to make a little extra money. It's not as easy as just picking any job you want. And it really has nothing to do with education either. I know plenty of people with degrees and years of experience in their field that are unemployed and can't find any work.
Exactly. My father died when I was 9. My mother never worked a day in her life and had no degree. Now she was faced with supporting 2 young kids with no work experience at all. She had a friend that was a bartender who got her a job as a bar maid. Do you think she enjoyed it? Hell no! She did what she had to do at the time to support us as best as she could. Most people don't wait tables or deliver pizza etc. because they like the job. It's usually a matter of necessity.
If the service is good, tip the person. If it sucked, don't tip them. It's pretty simple really.
I was a part time waiter at Barardi & Sons in Denver when I was in school. Tips were excellent for me but I knew what to do, plus I liked my job and I liked the people I was waiting on. Sometimes we would get guys like BMX man who where incredibly demanding and unusually time consuming - you could spot them right off. After a few months of experience with this type of customer, you learned to simply be polite and get them the hell out of the restaraunt ASAP. Poor tippers also tended to be low ticket diners as well, no hassle there but the idea of a business is to maximise turn and profit while still giving good service. For every poor tipper there is ALWAYS an excellent one who is fun to wait on, respects you for the person you are and doesn't look down on you because you are waiting on them. In general these people always get the most attention and best service - they deserve it.
In my limited table waiting experience, guys like BMX man are the exception. I can't tell you how but... anyone who has waited tables for any length of time can spot a mooch in a very short time. Its their body language, personal manner and the respect they have for you while communicating. If BMXman truly feels the way he does about service workers he will not be able to hide it.
On the plus side guys like him aren't that common or memorable. In the big picture they cease to exist as soon as they hit the door, then the wait person can devote more time and attention to those who deserve it.
ALSO... if I fall on hard times I would not hesitate to wait tables again, I liked it and didn't do too bad tip wise.
In my limited table waiting experience, guys like BMX man are the exception. I can't tell you how but... anyone who has waited tables for any length of time can spot a mooch in a very short time. Its their body language, personal manner and the respect they have for you while communicating. If BMXman truly feels the way he does about service workers he will not be able to hide it.
On the plus side guys like him aren't that common or memorable. In the big picture they cease to exist as soon as they hit the door, then the wait person can devote more time and attention to those who deserve it.
ALSO... if I fall on hard times I would not hesitate to wait tables again, I liked it and didn't do too bad tip wise.
Self serve, fast food, buffet . . .
the people who tip less dont get treated any differently than the people who tip more. more often than not "rich" people dont tip. the people who tip are people my age who know how babd it sucks to bust your ass and not get a tip. the people who do tip all get treated the same. its the people who dont tip who miss out.
im broke all the time but when i go out i always tip. being broke is no excuse. if you are to broke to leave aa couple of bucks when you go out, then you are too broke to go out.
-LAURA
I agree. You could always choose a less expensive place to eat, no one is asking you to leave a huge tip but you should leave something. On average I earned about 15% and walked with around 10% after I did my splits. You would sometimes customers who would leave $1.00 on the card and slip you the rest in cash as they were leaving. My kind of people!
oh jeez!....some one else who thinks they know all about me and how I act in public....yeah you pegged me perfectOriginally posted by Serial Midget
I was a part time waiter at Barardi & Sons in Denver when I was in school. Tips were excellent for me but I knew what to do, plus I liked my job and I liked the people I was waiting on. Sometimes we would get guys like BMX man who where incredibly demanding and unusually time consuming - you could spot them right off. After a few months of experience with this type of customer, you learned to simply be polite and get them the hell out of the restaraunt ASAP. Poor tippers also tended to be low ticket diners as well, no hassle there but the idea of a business is to maximise turn and profit while still giving good service. For every poor tipper there is ALWAYS an excellent one who is fun to wait on, respects you for the person you are and doesn't look down on you because you are waiting on them. In general these people always get the most attention and best service - they deserve it.
In my limited table waiting experience, guys like BMX man are the exception. I can't tell you how but... anyone who has waited tables for any length of time can spot a mooch in a very short time. Its their body language, personal manner and the respect they have for you while communicating. If BMXman truly feels the way he does about service workers he will not be able to hide it.
On the plus side guys like him aren't that common or memorable. In the big picture they cease to exist as soon as they hit the door, then the wait person can devote more time and attention to those who deserve it.
ALSO... if I fall on hard times I would not hesitate to wait tables again, I liked it and didn't do too bad tip wise.
Incentive?...what about doing your job like it should to be done?...and no tipping equals higher prodcut costs...that is flawed in so many ways...I don't tip my LBS and I don't see the prices rising....and a person should be professional whether they get a tip or not....that's what a professional does.....D
Seriously, how many people do you know that "do their job like it should be done..."? I can think of a handful at most.
The other 95% does their job as well as they need to to NOT GET FIRED... If we abolished the tip system, you would get crappy-but-not-offensively-bad service at restaurants. And managers can't legally fire folks for that.
Smart businesses have learned employees work better when they have incentives (stock, bonuses, etc). You can't give part-time servers stock, and many restaurants rely mostly on part-timers. You COULD switch to bonuses, but that is MUCH more subjective than a tipping system. A tipping system insures very well that good servers make more money than mediocre ones.
I understand your argument BMXman, but until the system changes just realize that's what the service costs. If you don't tip you're cheating the system.
The exception is always if you get bad service... don't tip. That penalty is what keeps folks in the service industry doing a good job.
I don't think I know you at all; I based my response on your written words - they reminded me of a particular type of customer I used to deal with. No hassle though as I will probably never wait on you...Originally posted by BMXman
oh jeez!....some one else who thinks they know all about me and how I act in public....yeah you pegged me perfect
"I just don't feel it's up to me to provide these people with extra income....maybe I'm just a cheapskate...but if someone want's a tip from me here's one.....get a better job that doesn't rely on other peoples kindness.....any other opinions out there....D"
" who is the idiot that decided some how I'm responsible for supplementing someone else's income?"
"I DO tip a person when they go out of their way and do something beyond their normal job for me... It is not my responsibility to help someone who has CHOSEN to take a job that pays less than minimum wage..."
LBS Employees also get paid more than $2.10/hour. Tipping is not a customary part of the LBS employees income. Bad argument.
and a professional waiter gets tipped for their job.
QUOTE
ok that's cool I just chose not to participate in this so called system....I don't feel like anyone has the right to tell me how to spend my hard earned money....especially big business people!.....D
and you're right, no one can tell you how to spend your hard earned money so you stick it to the man by not tipping someone who works just as hard as you do.
I believe some situations warrant tips more than others.
Although I think it's absolutely obsurd that some people are paid $2.10 an hour, I can acknowledge that they are and try to help them out a little with a tip.
Personally, I would find another job. Yes, it CAN be that easy. There are lots of jobs out there, it's just a question of what you're willing to do. No, flipping burgers is not a glamourous job, but if you can make $6.00 an hour at McDonald's, it beats $2.10 at the greasy spoon.
What really bothers me, are positions where a tip is customary, but not really deserved. For example, at the bar, I think think it's ridiculous to be expected to tip someone for cracking a beer. It's one thing if they deliver it, although I still find it questionable, but there bars where the cute girl at the beer counter makes more than I do in tips alone for opening bottles. It's situations like this that throw the whole tipping system out of kilter. I'm already paying $4 for a bottle of domestic beer, am I going to toss her a buck for opening it? She'd have to have quite a smile.
Some places I've been to employ guilt tactics to raise their tip. When the waitress brings the tables drinks, she counts your change and then puts in on the edge of her tray so if you want your change you're literally removing it from her tray on your own. Needless to say it's a little uncomfortable taking money from her tray, and it's highly visible to everyone around making your tip public knowledge. I resent this. I am by no means a stingy tipper, in fact I probably over tip, but I'm not going to be bullied into it.
When certain situations like this arise, and I am an avid bar/club goer, so it's rather frequently, you really begin to resent the whole tipping practice. I was once seeing a girl who worked at one of those beer stands in a popular night club, and she was bringing in upwards of $400 a NIGHT in tips. Apparently she opens bottles very well.
I guess my point is this: clearly some people really need the income they get from tips to get by. Yes, they could find new jobs, but someone's got to do what they're doing, and I can respect that, and help out where I can. It truly is an outdated system, and I think it should be abolished. Adjust the price as seen fit, but lose the tipping custom. However, I really feel strongly that a tip should not be EXPECTED just because the person is working a job that is generally tipped. A tip has to be earned, or the whole premise of the tipping system has been forgotten.
A tip is a reward for good service, not an incentive for good service next time around.
Although I think it's absolutely obsurd that some people are paid $2.10 an hour, I can acknowledge that they are and try to help them out a little with a tip.
Personally, I would find another job. Yes, it CAN be that easy. There are lots of jobs out there, it's just a question of what you're willing to do. No, flipping burgers is not a glamourous job, but if you can make $6.00 an hour at McDonald's, it beats $2.10 at the greasy spoon.
What really bothers me, are positions where a tip is customary, but not really deserved. For example, at the bar, I think think it's ridiculous to be expected to tip someone for cracking a beer. It's one thing if they deliver it, although I still find it questionable, but there bars where the cute girl at the beer counter makes more than I do in tips alone for opening bottles. It's situations like this that throw the whole tipping system out of kilter. I'm already paying $4 for a bottle of domestic beer, am I going to toss her a buck for opening it? She'd have to have quite a smile.
Some places I've been to employ guilt tactics to raise their tip. When the waitress brings the tables drinks, she counts your change and then puts in on the edge of her tray so if you want your change you're literally removing it from her tray on your own. Needless to say it's a little uncomfortable taking money from her tray, and it's highly visible to everyone around making your tip public knowledge. I resent this. I am by no means a stingy tipper, in fact I probably over tip, but I'm not going to be bullied into it.
When certain situations like this arise, and I am an avid bar/club goer, so it's rather frequently, you really begin to resent the whole tipping practice. I was once seeing a girl who worked at one of those beer stands in a popular night club, and she was bringing in upwards of $400 a NIGHT in tips. Apparently she opens bottles very well.
I guess my point is this: clearly some people really need the income they get from tips to get by. Yes, they could find new jobs, but someone's got to do what they're doing, and I can respect that, and help out where I can. It truly is an outdated system, and I think it should be abolished. Adjust the price as seen fit, but lose the tipping custom. However, I really feel strongly that a tip should not be EXPECTED just because the person is working a job that is generally tipped. A tip has to be earned, or the whole premise of the tipping system has been forgotten.
A tip is a reward for good service, not an incentive for good service next time around.
From Ohio: I understand your argument BMXman, but until the system changes just realize that's what the service costs. If you don't tip you're cheating the system.
Mmm, I disagree on this one note Ohio, not tipping is cheating the employee, not the system-- the business wins whether you tip or not. The employee loses when you don't tip (assuming they did a decent job).
From bmxman: ok that's cool I just chose not to participate in this so called system....I don't feel like anyone has the right to tell me how to spend my hard earned money....especially big business people!.....D
By not participating in the system, I hope you mean you don't frequent businesses that pay less than minimum wage to their employees?
Or do you mean you still benefit from the system, but you don't contribute to it?
I can fully respect and applaud the former choice, but the latter isn't making an effective statement or changing the system.
Mmm, I disagree on this one note Ohio, not tipping is cheating the employee, not the system-- the business wins whether you tip or not. The employee loses when you don't tip (assuming they did a decent job).
From bmxman: ok that's cool I just chose not to participate in this so called system....I don't feel like anyone has the right to tell me how to spend my hard earned money....especially big business people!.....D
By not participating in the system, I hope you mean you don't frequent businesses that pay less than minimum wage to their employees?
Or do you mean you still benefit from the system, but you don't contribute to it?
I can fully respect and applaud the former choice, but the latter isn't making an effective statement or changing the system.
I don't frequent clubs often but when I did that really ticked me off. I got a $4.50 bottle of beer once at a club so I left the .50 for the girl. She looked at me and flat out said "You must be kidding me" in her bitchest voice. I told her "You didn't even look at me for the first 10 minutes I was standing here and then all you did was pop the top off a beer bottle you don't even deserve what I left." I walked away and used the bar on the other side of the club the rest of the night.
I don't know about bars because I seldom drink; I might have a good beer with dinner but hanging out in bars is not my style. My tipping experience comes from waiting on customers for 90 minutes to 2 hours; trust me it is work.
point made.....D
it's not up to me to change the system...that has to be done by the people in it.....until that happens though...I will only be tipping when the person goes above and beyond their normal duties....and since I'm not all that picky.....tips will be far and few between...if it makes you feel any better my wife always picks up the tip....we share our money 50/50 so I can't control her half
....D
basically my thoughts....D
My goodness what a bunch of whiney crap.
If I go into a dinning establishment with table service the tip starts at 10%. If the service is good it can go up to as much as 20%. Conversely it can go down as well. I have for poor service left $0.01 and on one occasion shorted the bill by $0.25.
The tip is for service. If the service is good the tip will be too, if the service sucks the tip will suck as well. If someone wants better tips, they should provide better service.
A bartender that asks if I want another before my glass is empty will always get a tip. If I have to ask for another drink he probably wont.
I will not tip:
In places where I have to carry my own food or get my own beverage.
If I have to stand at a counter to order.
If the pizza is late.
If the pizza is cold.
If it takes me longer to get a drink than to consume one.
If I go into a dinning establishment with table service the tip starts at 10%. If the service is good it can go up to as much as 20%. Conversely it can go down as well. I have for poor service left $0.01 and on one occasion shorted the bill by $0.25.
The tip is for service. If the service is good the tip will be too, if the service sucks the tip will suck as well. If someone wants better tips, they should provide better service.
A bartender that asks if I want another before my glass is empty will always get a tip. If I have to ask for another drink he probably wont.
I will not tip:
In places where I have to carry my own food or get my own beverage.
If I have to stand at a counter to order.
If the pizza is late.
If the pizza is cold.
If it takes me longer to get a drink than to consume one.
Sorry to join the discussion so late, but BMXman, you are simply cheap.
That's all I have to say about that.
OK, not all - I'll also say that if you frequent an establishment and tip well, you'll find drinks / appetizers are occasionally comp'ed, your service will be faster (when a server / bartender has 20 customers from whom to choose, they're going to prioritize according to potential financial gain...it's the American way!) and you'll likely have that service with an extra smile. If that isn't worth the extra cash for a tip to you, stay home!
BTW- if the service sucks, sure, don't be so generous. But also don't be afraid to let the server know you'd appreciate having a little better service and give them a chance to step it up before you stiff them on the tip.
That's all I have to say about that.
OK, not all - I'll also say that if you frequent an establishment and tip well, you'll find drinks / appetizers are occasionally comp'ed, your service will be faster (when a server / bartender has 20 customers from whom to choose, they're going to prioritize according to potential financial gain...it's the American way!) and you'll likely have that service with an extra smile. If that isn't worth the extra cash for a tip to you, stay home!
BTW- if the service sucks, sure, don't be so generous. But also don't be afraid to let the server know you'd appreciate having a little better service and give them a chance to step it up before you stiff them on the tip.
you obviously don't know me at all.......D
You're right, I don't. But if you came into my bar and didn't tip, or tipped poorly, you'd probably be staring at an empty glass for quite a while, as the guy next to you who tipped big gets comp'ed a round.
Originally posted by Serial Midget
I was a part time waiter at Barardi & Sons in Denver when I was in school. Tips were excellent for me but I knew what to do, plus I liked my job and I liked the people I was waiting on. Sometimes we would get guys like BMX man who where incredibly demanding and unusually time consuming - you could spot them right off. After a few months of experience with this type of customer, you learned to simply be polite and get them the hell out of the restaraunt ASAP. Poor tippers also tended to be low ticket diners as well, no hassle there but the idea of a business is to maximise turn and profit while still giving good service. For every poor tipper there is ALWAYS an excellent one who is fun to wait on, respects you for the person you are and doesn't look down on you because you are waiting on them. In general these people always get the most attention and best service - they deserve it.
In my limited table waiting experience, guys like BMX man are the exception. I can't tell you how but... anyone who has waited tables for any length of time can spot a mooch in a very short time. Its their body language, personal manner and the respect they have for you while communicating. If BMXman truly feels the way he does about service workers he will not be able to hide it.
On the plus side guys like him aren't that common or memorable. In the big picture they cease to exist as soon as they hit the door, then the wait person can devote more time and attention to those who deserve it.
ALSO... if I fall on hard times I would not hesitate to wait tables again, I liked it and didn't do too bad tip wise.
Dude you don't know Donny at all and you think just by reading what he's written you can call him a cheapskate? Man that's messed up. I've had the pleasure of Donny's company on many occassions and NEVER have I ever even considered thinking of him in this manner. And to say you can tell if someone is a cheapskate by their body language and respect? Again I have NEVER seen Donnie disrespect anyone in a restuarant..in fact the opposite is true. If you scratch his back...he'll scratch yours. He is stating rational concerns and you folks are so quick to blast him. Jeez...this is a DISCUSSION...not an argument...there is a difference.
Ok El Jefe...I met you once on Tunnel trail a while back and you seemed to be a cool cat so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm not saying that you don't have a right to diss someone you've never met before but I will say that you could have handled that differently. For examply by saying "Well my gut reaction tells me something about you that I don't like but since we live relatively close to each other and probably ride the same trails, I'll postpone judgement until I've gotten to know you better." That's all I got to say and hope to ride with you some time in the future. Peace.
thanks Paul....I think I'm pretty much done here...to all those who were civil during the discussion...thanks I appreciate it, you have given me more insight into the situation.....D
Uhhhhhhh. . . so let me get this straight: he starts a thread, expaining his situation, and asks what people think. All anyone has to go off is the information supplied by him (and he was the first one to mention the word "cheapskate"). And when people draw conclusions based off the information he gave, you get all upset?
FVCK yeah I get upset. Wouldn't you if a bunch of folks started going to town on a friend? I don't care if he's in the wrong or not. I mean if you saw your brother getting his a$$ kicked would you stop to think if he was in the wrong first? Or would you jump in and start throwing down?
He didn't say he NEVER tipped...he said he tipped when it was deserved. Too many people shooting from the hip rather than examining everything he said. He has a valid point with the background as a waiter to back it up. It's not like he's NEVER served in the industry and is talking trash.
You do have a very good point, but being in an internet forum affords us all the luxury of being able to see exactly what is going down before we react. And I don't think anyone is wrong in this situation, it just happens to be an issue that people feel very passionately about.
I just feel that BMXman could have gone into a little more detail about his feelings on tipping, and people would have responded differently. But going off of what little he wrote, you can't really be surprised by the public outcry, especially with the amount of people who depend on tips for a living, or people who have depended on tips for a living at some point.
Wow this got heated!
I'm learning about discourse analysis right now, and the concensus is people communicate best verbally.
I have "jumped the gun" and really said some hurtful things in forums, because I was unable to get an accurate sense of the tone of a message.
It happens. It sucks.
Shesh, I have bantered around with nearly everyone on this board and met quite a few too. Nice people with out exception.
Disagreement is the norm, especially in this section of Ride Monkey.
Peace
Rob aka Ummbikes, know to some as Armondo...
I'm learning about discourse analysis right now, and the concensus is people communicate best verbally.
I have "jumped the gun" and really said some hurtful things in forums, because I was unable to get an accurate sense of the tone of a message.
It happens. It sucks.
Shesh, I have bantered around with nearly everyone on this board and met quite a few too. Nice people with out exception.
Disagreement is the norm, especially in this section of Ride Monkey.
Peace
Rob aka Ummbikes, know to some as Armondo...
Most people who have never waited tables or worked in the food service industry don't know that you are doing other things than wiating on 4-5+ tables, you got side work (you get paid $2.10 no matter what you are doing), you have to run food, etc....
and you might have to tip out the bartender, bus boy, hostess, etc...which usually comes from a % of your sales not actuall tips.
and waiters mkae 80% of their income in tips.
yeah its ****ty, but what else could you legally do & come home with a couple hundred bucks in cash in your pockets (on a good night).
and you might have to tip out the bartender, bus boy, hostess, etc...which usually comes from a % of your sales not actuall tips.
and waiters mkae 80% of their income in tips.
yeah its ****ty, but what else could you legally do & come home with a couple hundred bucks in cash in your pockets (on a good night).
HA!
The BMX Man has yet again bit off more than he could chew in an argument and weaseled out as soon as he felt the heat.
I love it!
I used to bag groceries for tips only.
I also used to caddy for tips only.
Where the heck would i have been without tips. That is truly getting stiffed.
The BMX Man has yet again bit off more than he could chew in an argument and weaseled out as soon as he felt the heat.
I love it!
I used to bag groceries for tips only.
I also used to caddy for tips only.
Where the heck would i have been without tips. That is truly getting stiffed.
Burly,
This isn't about who's right or wrong.
This isn't about who's right or wrong.
I think it sort of is man.
Isnt that generally what we try to decide in discussions like these?
Without reading all of the posts inthis thread, I have to agree with BurlySurly's statement above. By definition, isn't a debate about determining who is right and who is wrong?
Actually no
From Websters Ninth
debate - a regulated discussion of a proposition to the rules of parlimentary procedure - to argue - blah blah
there are several definitions but none them says anything about resolution