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Tire Inserts

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,510
3,282
Ottawa, Canada
Searched, but didn't find a dedicated thread. Thought maybe we could use one?

I just saw that Tannus introduced a new insert last week: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/tannus-introduces-new-armour-tubeless-insert.html which I'm curious about. Weight seems acceptable, as is price. And if it performs as described, it could be a decent option.

I've generally had good luck with DD casings, but there seems to be more options for EXO-level tires, and they seem to go on sale more frequently. These might be a good option.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
72,175
14,255
media blackout
i think there was another thread. maybe the procore/ghettocore thread?

anyways, i've been using Rimpact on my megatrail and liked it enough i ordered another set for my scott spark. however i also ordered cushcore for my dh bike (because 26" CC has been discontinued and was on sale)
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,572
1,264
Northern California
I plan on trying those new Tannus tubeless inserts in the future on my tail bike. They should be lighter than going to DD in the rear and will hopefully prevent pinch flats; I've never had an issue with tearing sidewalls.
 

captainspauldin

intrigued by a pole
May 14, 2007
1,208
128
Jersey Shore
I plan on trying those new Tannus tubeless inserts in the future on my tail bike. They should be lighter than going to DD in the rear and will hopefully prevent pinch flats; I've never had an issue with tearing sidewalls.
I like the way those look. Seems to be designed to focus the energy of an impact on the sidewall of the rims (is that the term?) rather than on the center section of the rim.
 

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,617
323
MA
Understood the new Tannus thing is a new product, but I had more flats with the original Tannus insert in a few hours than I had since I mistakenly tried using the old Kenda DH semi slicks at Massanutten back in 2006....
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
14,367
11,742
Canaderp
The only thing I know, after my one experience with mounting tire, I'd probably opt to pay someone $20 per tire to mount it.
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
383
321
Perth, WA.
i think there was another thread. maybe the procore/ghettocore thread?

anyways, i've been using Rimpact on my megatrail and liked it enough i ordered another set for my scott spark. however i also ordered cushcore for my dh bike (because 26" CC has been discontinued and was on sale)
Bike Discount is still selling them, not sure whether you can get it shipped to the US given Covid.

Have you (or anyone, actually) used them on a hardtail?

I'm thinking of putting one on the rear of my 26er to deal with the rowdy, rocky stuff, but I've heard mixed reports about them...mostly around them being sluggish and slow to pedal up to speed. Also that you're better served with DH casing Minion, although trying to find those things in 26 is actually pretty hard.

Thoughts?
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
72,175
14,255
media blackout
Bike Discount is still selling them, not sure whether you can get it shipped to the US given Covid.
inventory is still available, but once they're gone that's it. CC confirmed they discontinued the 26" pro size.

Have you (or anyone, actually) used them on a hardtail?
i think @HAB may have

I'm thinking of putting one on the rear of my 26er to deal with the rowdy, rocky stuff, but I've heard mixed reports about them...mostly around them being sluggish and slow to pedal up to speed.
the original rimpact ones I've been using no; they're about 85g per insert (26"; the pro model from rimpact does weigh more, but still less than cushcore). 26" cushcore weighs about 3x that amount (245g). increased rolling resistance may also be from people running super low pressures.

Also that you're better served with DH casing Minion
disagreed.

although trying to find those things in 26 is actually pretty hard.
Maxxis has them in stock. 2.7" in super tacky and 2.5" in 3C (but the OEM version with the white logo).

Thoughts?
i question anyone that says a DH casing tire does the same thing as an insert.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,292
1,689
Seattle
Yeah, I've used them on my hardtail some. Mostly don't bother anymore. They do provide some rim protection, and mute some hard impacts to the rear wheel a bit, but CC or not, I still need to run Double Down tires at a minimum and at that point the combo if insert and heavy-ish tire is more weight than I care to drag around on that bike.
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
383
321
Perth, WA.
Yeah, I've used them on my hardtail some. Mostly don't bother anymore. They do provide some rim protection, and mute some hard impacts to the rear wheel a bit, but CC or not, I still need to run Double Down tires at a minimum and at that point the combo if insert and heavy-ish tire is more weight than I care to drag around on that bike.
Yeah, so not the life changing improvement in handling (on a HT at least) that people speak of? In which case, all things considered, a dual ply dh casing on the rear might be better after all.
 

englertracing

you owe me a sandwich
Mar 5, 2012
1,102
668
La Verne
Bike Discount is still selling them, not sure whether you can get it shipped to the US given Covid.

Have you (or anyone, actually) used them on a hardtail?

I'm thinking of putting one on the rear of my 26er to deal with the rowdy, rocky stuff, but I've heard mixed reports about them...mostly around them being sluggish and slow to pedal up to speed. Also that you're better served with DH casing Minion, although trying to find those things in 26 is actually pretty hard.

Thoughts?
Dhf 26 x 2.5....
 

Kurt_80

Monkey
Jan 25, 2016
383
321
Perth, WA.
Jul 5, 2018
4
0
I've just gone for a Vittoria air liner inset on the rear after writing off two exo minions in two weeks (the bike came from new with exo's so I stuck a wild enduro on the front before the first tyre got written off. michelin WE on the rear now too so waiting to fit the insert - reviews seem good - I can't afford to keep putting holes in tyres! will be cool to test out the dampening effect of a large insert and see if it helps stop burping in hard cornering too
 

Shizzon

Monkey
Jun 25, 2015
101
283
I have only tried Cushcore. First on my AL ShredDogg (27.5 wheel, "Pro" model insert, mostly just ran in the rear) and now on my crabon Smash. The Smash is currently setup with EXO casings front and rear with a mix of a "Pro" CC insert in the rear and a "XC" insert up front: I like this setup so far.


Prior to installing the XC insert up front I was running an EXO+ casing without an insert up for a while with good results. I ended up cutting a fairly new tire in a rock/rim impact that I thought a lighter duty insert would have taken care of without much issue. I bought the two back of XC inserts so the other will eventually find its way on the back end of my hard tail where I’m excited to see the impact on rear end.


The only failure/flat that I have had while running CC was from a dagger of a rock and on the tire sidewall (brand new EXO Minnion SS). I was able to install a tube with the insert in place and ride the rest of a black diamond trail with plenty more sharp rocks without issue.


I'm a fan. I also do not find the installation to be difficult in the least once a technique is developed.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
14,367
11,742
Canaderp
Here is my quick and dirty review of a Rimpact insert. I believe its their "Original" model - I was given it by my wheel guy to try out.

First off, it was a total pain in the ass to mount a new tire with the insert. It also sucked having to remove it on the trail when the bead on my tire gave out and wouldn't hold air.

Taking the insert out, its obvious it did save the rim from a few impacts, as the foam had a bunch of slices in it. Though that being said, after riding in Mont Sainte Anne, I did discover a new flat spot in the rim and a cracked spoke hole.

Rimpact's website says the insert doesn't absorb sealant, but I'm calling that out as false. When I removed the insert on the weekend, I discovered a huge ball of solid sealant material. It looks like the liquid part of the sealant was absorbed - I say this because when I squeezed the foam, the liquid was seeping out.

So in the end, I don't really think its worth the hassle. Its especially a little worrisome that the foam seamed to absorb the sealant. That is going to leave you vulnerable if you get a hole or small cut. And if you have nothing to seal it with, have fun packing out the foam.
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
398
142
Honestly this is why I us Cushcore. Dense closed cell foam is heavy, but it last a long time and damps better. Most these lighter inserts last as long as a tire. Im on my original Cushcore for almost 2 years. That's a lot of tires.
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,580
1,479
NorCack
I’ve been running cushcore front and rear on my DH bike with Maxxis rubber for a couple seasons. I really like it and have become adept at installation.
Had a hard time removing a tire to replace it but have obtained their butt plug tool so we shall see if that makes it easier.

The ability to run lower pressures and keep rims alive is awesome and worth the weight esp on a heavy DH bike. I had wrecked 2 DH tires even running higher pressure (28-30psi) than I wanted before this so I’m sold for DH.

A buddy is running the XC inserts on his trail bike and really likes it. For our local stuff flats and rim damage are a rare occurrence even running 800-900g tires don’t the benefit is less. May give it a whirl anyway just to see how it feels.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
72,175
14,255
media blackout
Here is my quick and dirty review of a Rimpact insert. I believe its their "Original" model - I was given it by my wheel guy to try out.

First off, it was a total pain in the ass to mount a new tire with the insert. It also sucked having to remove it on the trail when the bead on my tire gave out and wouldn't hold air.

Taking the insert out, its obvious it did save the rim from a few impacts, as the foam had a bunch of slices in it. Though that being said, after riding in Mont Sainte Anne, I did discover a new flat spot in the rim and a cracked spoke hole.

Rimpact's website says the insert doesn't absorb sealant, but I'm calling that out as false. When I removed the insert on the weekend, I discovered a huge ball of solid sealant material. It looks like the liquid part of the sealant was absorbed - I say this because when I squeezed the foam, the liquid was seeping out.

So in the end, I don't really think its worth the hassle. Its especially a little worrisome that the foam seamed to absorb the sealant. That is going to leave you vulnerable if you get a hole or small cut. And if you have nothing to seal it with, have fun packing out the foam.
this is pretty much the direct opposite of my experience. super easy install for me. however i think the ease/difficulty of the install is going to depend on your tire and rim combo.

regarding absorbing sealant, i haven't experienced that either. although to be fair i've only had mine out once to check, and there was still plenty of sealant in my tire, but i didn't try to squeeze them to see if they absorbed any. were you adding more sealant per the instructions?

what kind of tire pressure were you running? notably lower than usual?
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
14,367
11,742
Canaderp
this is pretty much the direct opposite of my experience. super easy install for me. however i think the ease/difficulty of the install is going to depend on your tire and rim combo.

regarding absorbing sealant, i haven't experienced that either. although to be fair i've only had mine out once to check, and there was still plenty of sealant in my tire, but i didn't try to squeeze them to see if they absorbed any. were you adding more sealant per the instructions?

what kind of tire pressure were you running? notably lower than usual?
I added extra sealant, as their website mentions doing so because some will stick to the outside of the insert. I added quite bit at the beginning of August when I mounted the new tire and insert. The liquid was completely "gone" after less than two months, but the insert was definitely holding some of it, as my hands were covered in the liquid after cutting the insert into pieces to stuff into my hydrationpack for the ride out.

Running around 25-28psi.
 

Loki87

Monkey
Aug 24, 2008
169
136
Salzburg, Austria
Does Cushcore do a better job of not absorbing sealant?
In my case it did not absorb any sealant and I can not see how it would due to the slick and sealed surface. It feels more like a piece of rubber and less like some kind of foam. It also does not have any cuts in it after a season of downhill riding.
The stans sealant did fuse it to the magic Mary though and it was the first time in 17 years that I had to cut a tire off because there was no way to move the bead into the rim well to get a lever in there. The tire was on the rim for over a year though, so just make sure to replace sealant frequently and there should be less problems.
 

bagtagley

Monkey
Jun 18, 2002
236
11
VA
I've got Rimpact, regular and pro (which I'm running on the back of my hardtail). The surface of the insert gets covered in sealant, but I haven't had any issues with the sealant being absorbed.

It's good for pinch flat prevention, but I can't say I've noticed any other performance benefits outside the ability to run slightly lower pressure. They haven't eliminated the need for a heavier (DD level) casing as I managed to destroy the sidewall on a few EXOs. I actually think the insert may have contributed to the tears cause I've spent years killing EXO tires in other ways, but no major sidewall tears that I can remember.

Just some food for thought, I was washing my bike a couple weeks ago and discovered a crack in my carbon rim. No tire damage, at all. I've killed plenty of rims, but I've never done it without it being immediately obvious. I don't know if the insert saved my tire and I avoided more significant rim damage, or if the insert somehow contributed. Really baffling.
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
398
142
I think incerts that support the sidewall by pressing them out can contribute to damage pressing them out in rocks way. So more abrasion can happen if that makes sense. I run DD tires and its less of an issue. I had this problem with EXO
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,580
1,479
NorCack
The stans sealant did fuse it to the magic Mary though and it was the first time in 17 years that I had to cut a tire off because there was no way to move the bead into the rim well to get a lever in there. The tire was on the rim for over a year though, so just make sure to replace sealant frequently and there should be less problems.
This happened to me and I had to do the same thing. In my case I set things up toward the end of last season and the tire sat for an off season. I may break things down to some degree at the end of this season... Also curious if the super lever (which I now have) can break stuck tires loose better than the pedros I was using.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,094
402
For hard to unseat tires, I lay the wheel flat on the ground and push the bead in using the tip of a hammer handle. It could be worth a try next time you encounter a hard to unseat bead.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,510
3,282
Ottawa, Canada
I added extra sealant, as their website mentions doing so because some will stick to the outside of the insert. I added quite bit at the beginning of August when I mounted the new tire and insert. The liquid was completely "gone" after less than two months, but the insert was definitely holding some of it, as my hands were covered in the liquid after cutting the insert into pieces to stuff into my hydrationpack for the ride out.

Running around 25-28psi.
what sealant are you using? I think my shop put Peaty's in my new wheel/old tire when they built it a few weeks ago. I got a flat within a week. When I pulled the tire off, there was one massive booger, and the sealant didn't seal the puncture. That has made me not interested in every buying Peaty's again. If it coagulates in a week, then it's useless.
 

canadmos

Cake Tease
May 29, 2011
14,367
11,742
Canaderp
what sealant are you using? I think my shop put Peaty's in my new wheel/old tire when they built it a few weeks ago. I got a flat within a week. When I pulled the tire off, there was one massive booger, and the sealant didn't seal the puncture. That has made me not interested in every buying Peaty's again. If it coagulates in a week, then it's useless.
I've been using Orange sealant which seems to work okay. It dries up over time but not that fast and I've not ever had it turn into a big chunk like that before.
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,625
893
behind you with a snap pop
For hard to unseat tires, I lay the wheel flat on the ground and push the bead in using the tip of a hammer handle. It could be worth a try next time you encounter a hard to unseat bead.
Ha, same here, except I put the tire itself at the edge of a step so I can push the wheel even further away. I got so pissed at one tire that I wrapped a rag around it and put it in the vice. I eventually realized that my problem was gorilla tape being too thick and not letting the bead come off easily.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
72,175
14,255
media blackout
Ha, same here, except I put the tire itself at the edge of a step so I can push the wheel even further away. I got so pissed at one tire that I wrapped a rag around it and put it in the vice. I eventually realized that my problem was gorilla tape being too thick and not letting the bead come off easily.
do you guys not have hand clamps?

1600970899376.png
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,580
1,479
NorCack
For hard to unseat tires, I lay the wheel flat on the ground and push the bead in using the tip of a hammer handle. It could be worth a try next time you encounter a hard to unseat bead.
Thanks for the tip--my family thanks you. I definitely think I just needed to apply moar force. Hammer would have done the job and I think the butt plugger will allow me to push pretty hard too. The regular lever I had was killing my hand since both sides were pointy. Rather than think my way through it, I used 11/10 Dad-rage to cut a hole in the tire, pull up on the cush core and then get under the bead to yank the tire off. It was very cathartic (and tire was fully whooped anyway) also very messy. My kids and dog all went and hid in other parts of the house.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,094
402
Thanks for the tip--my family thanks you. I definitely think I just needed to apply moar force. Hammer would have done the job and I think the butt plugger will allow me to push pretty hard too. The regular lever I had was killing my hand since both sides were pointy. Rather than think my way through it, I used 11/10 Dad-rage to cut a hole in the tire, pull up on the cush core and then get under the bead to yank the tire off. It was very cathartic (and tire was fully whooped anyway) also very messy. My kids and dog all went and hid in other parts of the house.
Please tell me someone filmed that and it can be found on YouTube! :D
 

SuboptimusPrime

Turbo Monkey
Aug 18, 2005
1,580
1,479
NorCack
Please tell me someone filmed that and it can be found on YouTube! :D
Alas no. However, my first grader is probably at the point in her ability to use a smart phone where is a possibility. Fairly sure she will have many future opportunities to document my towering shitstorm of anger. Hopefully CPS never sees it...
 

bagtagley

Monkey
Jun 18, 2002
236
11
VA
Haha! My compressor is in the shed so that's where I go to curse at tires, away from family earshot. My hand pain induced dad-rage led to the creation a handle for my tire lever, fashioned from old paper towels and duct tape. It looks like a prison shank and only kinda works.