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Tire Inserts

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,097
43
Golden, CO
The CC tire lever is worth the $, but I'm thinking I'll try the clamps next time on my 27.5 plus tires. And I didn't realize the improvement CC made on my hardtail for keeping the tire from rolling on corners until swapping back and forth between that and my non CC trail bike. Now my patrol has CC as well, and the 2nd biggest improvement IMO is the traction on climbs. I haven't been riding as much trail this year, but really didn't notice the extra weight, maybe b/c I only did the rear tire.
 

Sorgie

Monkey
May 20, 2005
256
60
Rochester
I got this deal in my email this morning. Figured I would pass it along in case anyone ever wanted to try these and thought they were too expensive. All three wheel sizes in stock last I checked.

 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,098
402
Even better since I would be too lazy to install them
It's not that bad. You've been in the game for a long time and I'm sure you've often encountered horrible tires/rims combinations with DH tubes in the past.

Installing a CC setup is nearly impossible for ham-fisted noobs but fairly easy when you know what you're doing. My personal experience was that mounting the CC insert on the rim (without tire) was probably the hardest part.
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
398
142
It's not that bad. You've been in the game for a long time and I'm sure you've often encountered horrible tires/rims combinations with DH tubes in the past.

Installing a CC setup is nearly impossible for ham-fisted noobs but fairly easy when you know what you're doing. My personal experience was that mounting the CC insert on the rim (without tire) was probably the hardest part.
If you use a lever or wood handle of a mallet to stretch it over its not hard.
 
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ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,240
130
Vancouver
Ugh... all the muscles in my hands hurt today after yesterday's struggle with Tannus.

It must be a tire/rim combo thing. There's another youtube clip of an old guy installing them. He struggled a bit too but ultimately had an easier time than me.

The Tannus insert is shaped like the Cuscore one. The CC one is one piece so when it's sitting on the rim, that's it. It's on. Whereas the Tannus one has the two lips that need to sit on the rim. As you're installing it, one side of the insert will try to slip off. So then you're fighting to try to put the tire on AND keep the insert from slipping off. The wider the ID of the rim is, the better. I wouldn't mess with these unless you had 30mm or more.

Oh, I will say this... with CC and Maxxis tires, I always had a bit of tire wobble. I could never get rid of it. With Tannus, no tire wobble at all.
 
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ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,240
130
Vancouver
Installing a CC setup is nearly impossible for ham-fisted noobs but fairly easy when you know what you're doing. My personal experience was that mounting the CC insert on the rim (without tire) was probably the hardest part.
I found I had to do that initially but they stretch after a couple times swapping out tires. I'm hoping it's the same for these new ones.
 

FlipSide

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2001
1,098
402
Sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night sweating and wondering if I will ever get that Michelin DH mud tire on a Sun Rhyno lite rim.....sometimes....
Seriously! That's funny! When I typed my post, that's exactly the combination I had in mind. It was a bit easier with a Nokian DH tube (they were a bit smaller), but it was a nightmare with the bigger DH tubes that were common in those days.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,051
433
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Easy on/off with Santa Cruz rims, almost impossible with Bontrager. I've always found Santa Cruzs to be among the loosest fitting rims (sometimes hard to get a new tire to seat) and Bontrager the tightest (snapping tire levers all the way back to the 90s). So, if you insist on inserts consider choosing "loose" rims.
Like "plus" tires I'm not personally a fan but also not the target demographic.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
3,824
2,345
Australia
Sometimes I still wake up in the middle of the night sweating and wondering if I will ever get that Michelin DH mud tire on a Sun Rhyno lite rim.....sometimes....
I have traumatic memories of getting an Intense tyre onto a Mavic 521. When it came time to get it off, I broke a lever and then cut the damn thing off with cutters.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
3,743
1,570
I have traumatic memories of getting an Intense tyre onto a Mavic 521. When it came time to get it off, I broke a lever and then cut the damn thing off with cutters.
Same here. I bought a set of metal motorcycle tire levers and used pieces of linoleum flooring material to protect the rim when mounting/taking them off.
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
13,302
8,012
Cackalacka du Nord
those intense dh tires were nuts. makes getting my doubledowns onto ex471s feel like a breeze. pretty sure i, too, ended up cutting one off back in the day.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
3,743
1,570
those intense dh tires were nuts. makes getting my doubledowns onto ex471s feel like a breeze. pretty sure i, too, ended up cutting one off back in the day.
But those 4 ply, 1600 g DH tires from them were unflatable, for me at least. Kovarik double front-rear flatted them once. :rofl:
 

pizza diavola

Monkey
Dec 3, 2013
231
419
I installed a Tannus tubeless insert in my rear wheel last week. I have never used an insert before. My experience:

I recalled from this thread that some people had difficulty with the install, so at least I was mentally prepared. Otherwise, based on the reviews and the Tannus BS installation video I would have been expecting it to be a piece of cake. From the NSMB review: "Install was a breeze and on the second wheel I left one sidewall seated and pushed everything together easily without tools." Unfortunately that is not how it went for me.

It took me about 45 minutes to get the tire on, a Magic Mary 27.5 x 2.35 SG ultra-soft onto a 27mm ID WAO rim. The tire was already on the wheel since the beginning of October, so I only unseated one side. Maybe it would have been easier if I unseated both sides? I had a couple of quick-release c-clamps which helped, preventing the section I had already on the rim from popping off. It just took a lot of effort and persistence to get the last ~30cm onto the rim. Once the tire was on, it aired up and seated no problem with my compressor.

Since I knew I was not going to be going fast (despite the sticker on my toptube) I set my pressure 3psi lower than normal and went for a ride the next day. It was not raining, but the trails were wet. I seemed to have better traction on the initial climb, and on the downhill the first thing I noticed was my hands were really sore from fighting with the tire the previous day.

A bunch of other factors prevented me from determining the impact of the insert ATM. It was my first ride in 7 weeks. I gained about 8 pounds in those 7 weeks. At the end of October, I @Jm_ 'ed one of my RF NextR crank arms, and I used that as an excuse to go to 165mm cranks with the hope to reduce pedal strikes. But to do so, I ended up with an 8mm narrower q-factor. So on this first ride with the insert, shorter and narrower cranks (chainring flipped to keep the same chainline), and 5% increase in weight without adjusting shock and fork air pressures, I found my rear suspension felt a bit off (wish I could articulate it better than that; maybe a bit too squishy and underdamped?) and my feet bounced off the pedals a couple of times on the downhills. That's not typically a problem I have. I suspect it’s just that I've forgotten how to ride and need to get back out on a regular basis again.

Anyway, I need more rides to see how this insert changed things. I may go back to the old cranks for a few rides (RF sent me a warranty replacement) to see if I notice the crank geo change and at least take that out of the picture.
 

ChrisRobin

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
3,240
130
Vancouver
Yeah while all the reviewers out there say it's a piece of cake to install, real men like us still have trouble with it. So yes, a bunch of BS.
 

StiHacka

Compensating for something
It took me about 45 minutes to get the tire on, a Magic Mary 27.5 x 2.35 SG ultra-soft onto a 27mm ID WAO rim.
This particular edition of the MM must be one of the toughest tires to mount nowadays, insert or not. I took me similar time and I broke a few tire levers just getting it on a rim with a tube. That experience wade me order the cush core buttplug.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,520
3,293
Ottawa, Canada
NSMB comparison of three different brands (down towards the bottom):


Cam McRae from nsmb.com said:
I started out using similar pressures with Rimpact inserts, but soon found it wasn't enough. I bottomed out the rear wheel once, enough to make the sickening clang that indicates you'd better check for damage,* before raising the pressure 2 psi. Unlike Dave, and perhaps because I was on a hardtail, I could notice some damping and cushioning from the Rimpacts. It was less than I was used to with Cushcore but still beneficial.

*dodged a bullet this time

Another difference between the two was sidewall support. This is one of the most noticeable aspects of Cushcore at lower pressures, and in fact enough support remains to corner relatively well if you happen to get a puncture. Again, unlike Dave, I didn't notice much cornering support but it could be that my expectations were elevated because I was expecting closer to the support of Cushcore or Tannus Tubeless.

It seems to me the lack of sidewall support is related to Rimpact's squared off anvil shape. The profile doesn't allow the insert to press against the sidewall as you move away from the rim nearly as far as Cushcore or Tannus Tubeless. I suspect this is because the low density material wouldn't withstand impacts well if it had wings that became thinner as they extend out at 45º. For me this is a big miss.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
72,290
14,335
media blackout
NSMB comparison of three different brands (down towards the bottom):

One thing about that review is that they don't really talk about what size tires they're using (aside from one reference to riding tires up to 2.5"). I'm riding rimpact on 2.3" tires and do notice the sidewall support (although I'm also north of 200lbs). As he pointed out the cross sectional profile is different, so larger tires the additional support may not be as pronounced. When my tires are low on pressure I can squeeze them and feel the small gap between the sidewall and the insert.

Maybe it's just me, but in reading the review it seems like they were expecting it to be more equivalent to cush core. I've always maintained that rimpact is more of a lighter duty insert than cush core. Rimpact IMO is intended more for trail / AM / maybe some light enduro, where as cushcore is more intended for enduro and dh.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,582
6,449
Just got two Tannus to fit to rear wheel of mine and wife's DH bikes. They're a lot stiffer than I expected and fresh out of the box they're holding a square shape.

I foresee swearing when I have to fit them underneath DH tyres. If I puncture the tubeless tape things may get thrown.
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
348
381
Just got two Tannus to fit to rear wheel of mine and wife's DH bikes. They're a lot stiffer than I expected and fresh out of the box they're holding a square shape.

I foresee swearing when I have to fit them underneath DH tyres. If I puncture the tubeless tape things may get thrown.
Better warm up the pitching arm. For some reason, I had a rougher time with Tannus than CushCore. My cross post from TGR:

I decided to give Tannus a try (as opposed to DD casing). A buddy donates an EXO DHR for the experiment with a hole in it. I patch the hole, wrestle on the insert (BTW had a harder time with it than CushCore XC for some reason). Air it up and let it sit overnight... no pressure. I assume the patch didn't work, so I wrestle insert and tire off. Discover tape got mangled during the insert install, so replace that and say fuck the insert and put back on an old DD DHR. Wrestle it on, spend a solid 15-20 minutes trying to get the fucker to seat properly all the way around, put it on the bike and give it a spin to check the seating one last time. Notice there's a solid wobble to it at one spot, and assume that the casing was damaged at some point. Strip the tire, and put on a fresh DD DHR, again fighting to get the damn thing to seat fully, air it up, put it on, and give it a whirl. Again, same wobble at the same spot. WTF? Look closer... bent spoke from a stick sometime recently.

So after about 2 hours total of fucking around with tires, all I have to show for it is a blood blister on one finger, Orange Seal all over my hands, a fresh tire that I didn't really need to put on yet, and knowledge that I've got to replace at least one spoke.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,582
6,449
Better warm up the pitching arm. For some reason, I had a rougher time with Tannus than CushCore. My cross post from TGR:

I decided to give Tannus a try (as opposed to DD casing). A buddy donates an EXO DHR for the experiment with a hole in it. I patch the hole, wrestle on the insert (BTW had a harder time with it than CushCore XC for some reason). Air it up and let it sit overnight... no pressure. I assume the patch didn't work, so I wrestle insert and tire off. Discover tape got mangled during the insert install, so replace that and say fuck the insert and put back on an old DD DHR. Wrestle it on, spend a solid 15-20 minutes trying to get the fucker to seat properly all the way around, put it on the bike and give it a spin to check the seating one last time. Notice there's a solid wobble to it at one spot, and assume that the casing was damaged at some point. Strip the tire, and put on a fresh DD DHR, again fighting to get the damn thing to seat fully, air it up, put it on, and give it a whirl. Again, same wobble at the same spot. WTF? Look closer... bent spoke from a stick sometime recently.

So after about 2 hours total of fucking around with tires, all I have to show for it is a blood blister on one finger, Orange Seal all over my hands, a fresh tire that I didn't really need to put on yet, and knowledge that I've got to replace at least one spoke.
Yay :/

I've a week to get them both mounted before our first lift served of the year.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
3,743
1,570
Yay :/

I've a week to get them both mounted before our first lift served of the year.
There would be a way to get the same puncture protection, lighter, cheaper and with no removing of the tire necessary, you know? ;)
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
398
142
Yeah, I've used them on my hardtail some. Mostly don't bother anymore. They do provide some rim protection, and mute some hard impacts to the rear wheel a bit, but CC or not, I still need to run Double Down tires at a minimum and at that point the combo if insert and heavy-ish tire is more weight than I care to drag around on that bike.
I find you cannot go to a lighter casing if you rip tires you still will with inserts. I've got the Tannus ordered. Inserts protect the rim, some dampen the tire. I like Cushcore a lot other than the weight.
 

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,051
433
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
Better warm up the pitching arm. For some reason, I had a rougher time with Tannus than CushCore. My cross post from TGR:

I decided to give Tannus a try (as opposed to DD casing). A buddy donates an EXO DHR for the experiment with a hole in it. I patch the hole, wrestle on the insert (BTW had a harder time with it than CushCore XC for some reason). Air it up and let it sit overnight... no pressure. I assume the patch didn't work, so I wrestle insert and tire off. Discover tape got mangled during the insert install, so replace that and say fuck the insert and put back on an old DD DHR. Wrestle it on, spend a solid 15-20 minutes trying to get the fucker to seat properly all the way around, put it on the bike and give it a spin to check the seating one last time. Notice there's a solid wobble to it at one spot, and assume that the casing was damaged at some point. Strip the tire, and put on a fresh DD DHR, again fighting to get the damn thing to seat fully, air it up, put it on, and give it a whirl. Again, same wobble at the same spot. WTF? Look closer... bent spoke from a stick sometime recently.

So after about 2 hours total of fucking around with tires, all I have to show for it is a blood blister on one finger, Orange Seal all over my hands, a fresh tire that I didn't really need to put on yet, and knowledge that I've got to replace at least one spoke.
Sometimes I feel bad seeing how much people have to pay for me to work on their bikes. Now you've made me feel like I'm worth every penny.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
15,158
5,940
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Yes, I ran the Tannus in Perú until I cratered my 29" rear wheel on the second to last day, I have been running mullet since then, though. I couldn't get it seated for the life of me either, I traded some work to get the shop I am affiliated with to do it.
 

SkullCrack

Monkey
Sep 3, 2004
684
92
PNW
Just got two Tannus to fit to rear wheel of mine and wife's DH bikes. They're a lot stiffer than I expected and fresh out of the box they're holding a square shape.

I foresee swearing when I have to fit them underneath DH tyres. If I puncture the tubeless tape things may get thrown.
They were a bitch with EXO+ tires on WeAreOne rims. I managed to destroy the bead on a new Assegai in the process. I finally had success when I found this comment on one of Tannus' YouTube videos:

Actual steps: DO NOT USE THE INSTRUCTION SHEET OR THE EASY LOOKING VIDEO

1. Set your wheel on a garbage can and Install one side of the tire bead on the DISC SIDE

2. Lube up the inside of the tire bead that is already on the rim with dish soap, as well as one bead or "wing" of the insert before installing any part of it.

3. Put the lubed up side of the tannus armor into the tire making sure to line up the channels with our valves.

4. Lube the other "wing" or bead before adding it into the tire. Your armor WILL NOT seat all the way before the tire is seated, you may get it close but it will 100% come off of the rim when you try to install the bead of the tire and frustrate you endlessly.

5. Lube the remaining tire bead AND the tannus with soap.

6. Make sure that the tire is in the center channel of the rim (or as close as possible because the insert takes up a LOT of volume, you may have to pull the tire around and mess with it, the soap helps a ton with this part. If you lube it they will come.

7. Put the wheel down onto a padded mat making sure the rim is also on the mat. A fatigue work mat is ideal for this.

8. Start to put the bead AND ARMOR onto the rim. Once you have 6" or so beaded KNEEL ON IT WITH ALL OF YOUR WEIGHT so that the tire and armor don't start releasing as you make your way around the rim. Ideally your brake rotor should be facing up to avoid warping.

9. Once you have 1' done KNEEL on the finished area with BOTH KNEES to hold the tire and armor in place.

10. Continue this way around the tire until it gets IMPOSSIBLY HARD the soap will make this POSSIBLE but not easy.

11. Use a good strong set of tire levers (cheap park tool levers work perfectly) to seat the bead little by little making sure to kneel on the finished part.

12. When the single lever and kneel method gets IMPOSSIBLE go for 2 levers for the last 6"-10". You will need to use enough force that you may think the levers will break, it really is that tight. Be careful that you aren't hitting your rim tape with the levers. It's easy to knick it and you will be quite upset if this happens because you won't know until the entire project is ready for air up.

13. Check all the way around the rim to ensure the tire is seated properly

14. Add sealant and pump up the tire and enjoy the satisfaction of having completed a nearly impossible task

15. Stretch your back and legs after the epic workout you just completed

15.5 apologize to anyone who heard you cursing this product for the last several hours.

16. Once your back, neck and shoulders heal from this ordeal, go ride some sharp stuff!

Installed tannus enduro on schwalbe magic mary 2.6's on 30mm wtb kom trail rims. Park tools levers, 7th generation natural dish soap, work fatigue mat. This took me several hours to figure out and my local bike shop didn't even want to attempt to mount these things. I worked in a shop as a teenager and have mounted a LOT of tires and at one point in this install I decided I was going back to tubes. It is that difficult. You will not be able to do this with schwalbe's on a truck bed or anywhere you can't kneel with all of your weight on the rim. The other video is super misleading and makes it look easy, it is not!
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
9,582
6,449
You people are not instilling confidence.

I had thought only CC made contemplating giving up biking a possibility and the rest of these things were supposed to be slightly easier.
 

Cerberus75

Monkey
Feb 18, 2017
398
142
You people are not instilling confidence.

I had thought only CC made contemplating giving up biking a possibility and the rest of these things were supposed to be slightly easier.
Just get both tire beads in the channel and it's nothing. If you've ever installed a wire bead tire. Or a tight bead tire. It's really no different.
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
7,520
3,293
Ottawa, Canada
Yeah, I've used them on my hardtail some. Mostly don't bother anymore. They do provide some rim protection, and mute some hard impacts to the rear wheel a bit, but CC or not, I still need to run Double Down tires at a minimum and at that point the combo if insert and heavy-ish tire is more weight than I care to drag around on that bike.
I find you cannot go to a lighter casing if you rip tires you still will with inserts. I've got the Tannus ordered. Inserts protect the rim, some dampen the tire. I like Cushcore a lot other than the weight.
I'm finding this to be true. I wasn't getting any cuts in the tread of the tire, ever, with DD casings.

I switched to EXO+ and Tannus, and while rim impacts haven't been an issue, I've punctured the casing in the tread twice already this season, and I haven't even had access to the high-speed rocky trails yet, since the border is closed between me and those trails... :butcher:

I've also found the lighter casing to be more compliant. Which means I can't run the promised lower pressures. I'm still running 29 psi in the back wheel to avoid the tire getting all squirmy and vague.

I'm thinking of going back to a worn out DD casing for the summer when I'm feeling a bit more sendy, and all-out grip doesn't matter as much.
You people are not instilling confidence.

I had thought only CC made contemplating giving up biking a possibility and the rest of these things were supposed to be slightly easier.
Re mounting, I guess it depends on the rim? I mounted my 27.5 2.4 EXO+ DHR2 on my Chromag Phase 30 rim relatively painlessly. I used Peaty's rim tape, which seems a bit thicker and tougher than Stans or Tesa strapping tape.

I did use a 6 gal. pail to rest the wheel on and help in working the bead around, which certainly helped. I had a sponge with dish soap in it and the ready, but didn't wind up needing it. I found the trick was to work you way around, and once you get to the last few inches, I worked my way around both beads one more time making sure everything was tucked in properly. Then it just popped on by hand (albeit very forcefully with both hands), no lever needed. In fact the only time I used a lever was to tuck the "wings" into the bead.

I used a syringe to put sealant in through the valve stem.

ymmv of course, but for me it was a 15 minute job.
 
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SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,466
386
coloRADo
Glad this thread popped up..been looking at some for both bikes....was gonna run procore schwalbe has a cheap price...but now I start reading this and see what's what
I have done both Procore and CushCore.

Procore is pretty cool. But doesn't last forever. Like after 3-4 tires, it gets really gooey and basically glues itself to the tire and you have to toss all of it. The best thing is that since you pump up that inner tube, it seals the tire bead to the rim, and burping tires is never a problem.

Cushcore seems to last longer and no need to check inner tube pressure and tire pressure like Procore. Just as good rim/tire protection IMO.

Both of them require a great deal of attention to technique to install without swearing like a sailor or throwing tire levers across garage :) But it's doable. It's all in the technique.

I'd recommend that new tire lever from Park. Or just put a bunch of hockey tape on a good, wide tire lever to protect your hands.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
being on obsolete wheels makes me kinda glad that UST is an option so i don't have to faff with rim tape and cushcore.
I need something I think to keep tire away from rim at all cost...especially rear.. I've ripped em with no help from rim on a side hit ..90% of the time since I started reading this I think something like this would reduce my gashes and dented rims..maybe not rims but tires would be cool to have live a little longer....

I guess I'll start to look at it overall
Weight
Ease of install
Durability
And performance....

I remember procore came out and never really took the time to keep up on it but I also had a ton of tires on hand so didn't give a crap...now everything's back ordered so I need to try and keep em a bit longer...

Especially since lug rips are a thing of the past man the new Mary's are durable...
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
72,290
14,335
media blackout
a lot of people (myself included) pass on pro-core as it required drilling a second valve hole in your rim. this has a tendency to void warranties - especially with carbon rims.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
I have done both Procore and CushCore.

Procore is pretty cool. But doesn't last forever. Like after 3-4 tires, it gets really gooey and basically glues itself to the tire and you have to toss all of it. The best thing is that since you pump up that inner tube, it seals the tire bead to the rim, and burping tires is never a problem.

Cushcore seems to last longer and no need to check inner tube pressure and tire pressure like Procore. Just as good rim/tire protection IMO.

Both of them require a great deal of attention to technique to install without swearing like a sailor or throwing tire levers across garage :) But it's doable. It's all in the technique.

I'd recommend that new tire lever from Park. Or just put a bunch of hockey tape on a good, wide tire lever to protect your hands.
So what's the option if you rip a tire in field how easy is it to crutch it to get on trail...I usually keep 2 extra wheels ready to bolt on in truck...I've needed em more than 1 time lol and have lent em to buddies who destroyed a wheel so we could keep riding