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Tire Inserts

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
24,027
14,640
where the trails are
So what's the option if you rip a tire in field how easy is it to crutch it to get on trail...I usually keep 2 extra wheels ready to bolt on in truck...I've needed em more than 1 time lol and have lent em to buddies who destroyed a wheel so we could keep riding
I'd think there would be ZERO chance of me removing a tire/CC on the side of the trail. I needed a garage, good levers and a beer. (optional but highly recommended)

That said, I rode a super rocky downhill with about 10psi and everything held up great.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,322
866
coloRADo
a lot of people (myself included) pass on pro-core as it required drilling a second valve hole in your rim. this has a tendency to void warranties - especially with carbon rims.
I'm not sure where you heard this. Maybe in the prototypes?

You get a special valve that depending on how you "open" it, it goes to either the inner tube, or the main tire. No drilling is necessary.
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,322
866
coloRADo
So what's the option if you rip a tire in field how easy is it to crutch it to get on trail...I usually keep 2 extra wheels ready to bolt on in truck...I've needed em more than 1 time lol and have lent em to buddies who destroyed a wheel so we could keep riding
I had a buddy flat with CC out in the middle of nowhere. Not sure how old his CC was, but he was able to remove it to place a tube and get on with the ride. The elasticity of CC does wear over time. And riding out a ride with a slimey tire insert around your back does kinda suck....but it's possibro!

With Procore....hmmm...that would suck. But the theory being you can just ride on the inner tube and flat tire....very carefully :) But same with CC, you can remove it, depending....

Edit: Procore is only $50 now?! Wow. I'd try that if you're curious. You get a really super sweet kit with it too (tire levers, sponge bottle for soapy water, high strength rim tape, etc.). Check it out for sure!
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,859
24,453
media blackout
I'm not sure where you heard this. Maybe in the prototypes?

You get a special valve that depending on how you "open" it, it goes to either the inner tube, or the main tire. No drilling is necessary.
you're right. i got it confused with that DeanEasy tube+, which is a nearly identical system but has the dual valve setup. but i don't think that's on the market anymore
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
I'll call and see..started looking around...I'll keep looking too...

So with added weight can you run a lighter tire to offset it?

Do you still runs stans sealant normal or reduced amount?

What's the easiest and reliable one to look at and whichbhas good weight to performance or reliability....

I don't mind a little weight...riding a ripped front tire is alot harder than a rear off a rocky trail I had to walk portions lol...rear I'd just let it get squirrely.
Man the front was like ice off rocks just slide side to side....
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
, high strength rim tape, etc.). Check it out for sure!
What rim tape? Stans...or?

Like anyone I'd like to get to a lower pressure...I'm at 28 24 rear front...I like 18 to 22 range both...but rocks don't like me...and I frankly don't give a shit so I hit em anywase. I do try to clean em but we all know we are gonna plow from time to time...

My current pressure deflects and gets bone jarring in rock piles as well as makes it hard to get ontop of a pile of you don't have speed to tip em....going to have to give this a try...
 
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6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
15,940
13,189
Tannus attempt #1,2 - failure

  • Unseated one bead on the near new Magic Mary and removed the Stans juice
  • Attempt to fit the tannus into the rim
  • Second bead on the MM unseated itself
  • Get the first tannus bean into the rim
  • NFW is there now enough space in the rim bed to be able to get the second tyre and tannus beads in there
  • Remove the tannus
  • Pump the MM back up tubeless to seat the beads
  • Deflate, remove one bead
  • Attempt to fit the tannus into the rim
  • Second bead on the MM unseats
  • MF
edit: DT 560 rim, 27.5x2.4 MM DH
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,859
24,453
media blackout
So with added weight can you run a lighter tire to offset it?
you *can*, but there are tradeoffs if you go that route.

Do you still runs stans sealant normal or reduced amount?
normal

What's the easiest and reliable one to look at and whichbhas good weight to performance or reliability....
i've only got experience with rimpact and cushcore. rimpact is worlds easier in my experience, but rim and tire combo is a big factor in how easy any of the inserts are to install.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
you *can*, but there are tradeoffs if you go that route.



normal



i've only got experience with rimpact and cushcore. rimpact is worlds easier in my experience, but rim and tire combo is a big factor in how easy any of the inserts are to install.
Rim tire
Do dents make it harder I've got a semi hammered 823 and 729...but I have new ones for the rear...

Tires schwalbe
Rims mavic 823 729 DT swiss ex 560 and fr1950..

Is there a specific width or inner profe that's more accommodating to these? Since I have to replace rears sooner than later I can do that
 

SylentK

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
2,322
866
coloRADo
What rim tape? Stans...or?

Like anyone I'd like to get to a lower pressure...I'm at 28 24 rear front...I like 18 to 22 range both...but rocks don't like me...and I frankly don't give a shit so I hit em anywase. I do try to clean em but we all know we are gonna plow from time to time...

My current pressure deflects and gets bone jarring in rock piles as well as makes it hard to get ontop of a pile of you don't have speed to tip em....going to have to give this a try...
It's a special rim tape for Procore. Since that inner tube is like at 100psi (not exactly sure, but it's freaking high) they give you the special rim tape. It says Schwalbe on it, not sure who makes it.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,859
24,453
media blackout
Rim tire
Do dents make it harder I've got a semi hammered 823 and 729...but I have new ones for the rear...

Tires schwalbe
Rims mavic 823 729 DT swiss ex 560 and fr1950..

Is there a specific width or inner profe that's more accommodating to these? Since I have to replace rears sooner than later I can do that
dents i believe just make it hard to seal tubeless, which would be an issue regardless of whether or not you're running an insert.

cushcore pro recommends a inner rim width of 22 to 35mm. the 823 is close at 23mm, the 729 should be no problem.

i'm currently trying to install cushcore onto a 823 / michelin dh34. i wasn't able to get it installed when the tire was brand new, but that is apparently a common thing, so i rode the tires once. i need to try again, hoping to get to that this week.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Ok procore is cheap...any thoughts on this...

Also rear tires are what I kill , is doing rear only advised or both front and rear..?

I need 26 and 27.5 systems..I have 26 rears 27.5 rears and 27.5 fronts....figures I'd do both bikes rear 26s and front 27.5..

Or possibly just my rears only due to the damagey rears suffer...
 

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,657
129
New York City
After reading all this insert discussion i will just stay with my big, heavy and thick Intense tubes. No flats in two years at 25 PSI in the front and rear tires. I think I am too lazy for this revolution.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
7,605
5,914
in a single wide, cooking meth...
So as @SuboptimusPrime can attest too, I one of the more gifted, calm and patient bike mechanics on the planet. In fact, that describes my overall personality. I have never, ever sworn to immediately fly to Japan and/or Taiwan to murder entire departments of Shimano, Sram, Fox, etc...after raising my blood pressure to 270/200, sweating & cursing profusely, cutting my hands somehow and magically losing various tiny bolts and my 5 mm allen key. With that declarative statement out of the way, I waded into the insert world based on the otherworldly benefits promised by my aforementioned robot amigo. I could run 4 psi in the rear and just sit back and plow through any manner of jagged, pointy rock parties with no threat of damage to my alloy hoops.

Up until recently, I ran 823s (36 hole no less) and honestly, was never too worried about destroying those things (I think I have one legit dent in the rear rim) - but they're heavy AF and obviously pretty narrow. I inherited a set of 26" I9 Grades & CC inserts from said robot friend and I decided to switch to save some weight and the 823 Hadley hub needs new bearings badly. Anyway, I got the first side of the tire seated in without too much throbbing forehead vein, and got about 3/4 of the other side mashed in there, but I never felt like the insert would let me keep the beads in the center of the channel to make it any easier. The CC insert fits pretty tight around the rim, so I'm not sure how you would force the bead into the center of channel. Was trying to be careful and not damage the rim tape (I9 tape btw) but eventually had to break down and use a fucking steel tire lever to horse the last bit of the bead on (Maxxis Shorty tire). I was sure I dicked up the tape with my lever of volcanic rage, but somehow the thing seated up nice and is holding air great after a couple days. Praise be to Yahweh. Haven't ridden it yet, but will try to test it out on some local rocky bits soon, but I have no doubt it will work as advertised - which is nice for a rim like a Grade that isn't nearly as smash resistant as a 823. With all that said, the CC adds a fair chunk or weight, so much so, I'm not sure its any lighter than my 823 sans insert.

Can't complain too much overall, athough I am not looking forward to replacing the tire later this year and trying to do it all over again with a tire with a fresh bead.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
Ok procore is cheap...any thoughts on this...

Also rear tires are what I kill , is doing rear only advised or both front and rear..?

I need 26 and 27.5 systems..I have 26 rears 27.5 rears and 27.5 fronts....figures I'd do both bikes rear 26s and front 27.5..

Or possibly just my rears only due to the damagey rears suffer
 

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,319
5,074
Ottawa, Canada
@bullcrew
re tire casing: I answered this today. depends on where you ride I suppose, but I'm coming to the realization that no, it doesn't work this way.
I'm finding this to be true. I wasn't getting any cuts in the tread of the tire, ever, with DD casings.

I switched to EXO+ and Tannus, and while rim impacts haven't been an issue, I've punctured the casing in the tread twice already this season, and I haven't even had access to the high-speed rocky trails yet, since the border is closed between me and those trails... :butcher:

I've also found the lighter casing to be more compliant. Which means I can't run the promised lower pressures. I'm still running 29 psi in the back wheel to avoid the tire getting all squirmy and vague.

I'm thinking of going back to a worn out DD casing for the summer when I'm feeling a bit more sendy, and all-out grip doesn't matter as much.


Re mounting, I guess it depends on the rim? I mounted my 27.5 2.4 EXO+ DHR2 on my Chromag Phase 30 rim relatively painlessly. I used Peaty's rim tape, which seems a bit thicker and tougher than Stans or Tesa strapping tape.

I did use a 6 gal. pail to rest the wheel on and help in working the bead around, which certainly helped. I had a sponge with dish soap in it and the ready, but didn't wind up needing it. I found the trick was to work you way around, and once you get to the last few inches, I worked my way around both beads one more time making sure everything was tucked in properly. Then it just popped on by hand (albeit very forcefully with both hands), no lever needed. In fact the only time I used a lever was to tuck the "wings" into the bead.

I used a syringe to put sealant in through the valve stem.

ymmv of course, but for me it was a 15 minute job.
re cuts: Stans Darts can seal up a pretty big cut, as long as you can deploy it quickly and you have sufficient sealant. My last tire gash was about a 1/2" wide, at the base of a knob. The dart is still holding, 5 rides later, through some pretty rocky terrain.

re riding it out: I think that depends on the insert. I don't have cushcore, but I've read it is possible to finish a ride on a cushcore with no air. You'll likely kill the tire, but if the gash is so big a Dart won't fix it, it's likely dead (for tubeless) anyways. I don't think I'd try this with Tannus.

re front and rear vs rear only: i'd start with doing only what you damage. if you find that you like the feel, and it works for you, then you can always do the front too.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,307
11,486
In the cleavage of the Tetons
I had a big cut at the bead on Porc last year, we thought there was no way to salvage the ride, but we put in four (4!) Stan’s Dart plugs, and it sealed right up. Fairly amazing.
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
pro core was trash, The old tube in a tire , in a tire. Did not work as advertised. two tire double pinch flats, different times. I ran 28+ psi on 27.5x 2.35-2.5 minions dhf then. No wonder its 30$. Don't waste your money.

huck norris was trash.

CC xc has been great so far. Easy install. Good protection so far. 26Psi 29x2.4 minionsdhr2 exo+
 
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slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,319
5,074
Ottawa, Canada
pro core was trash, The old tube in a tire , in a tire. Did not work as advertised. two tire double pinch flats, different times. I ran 28+ psi on 2.35 minions then. No wonder its 30$. Don't waste your money.

huck norris was trash.

CC xc has been great so far. Easy install. Good protection so far. 26Psi 2.5 minionsdhr2 exo+
I thought CCXC was only good to 2.4" wide tires? Has that changed?
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
weight is closer than the height. i'm about 6' and bullcrew is taller than me by a good bit.
22lbs shy...lol
But yeah anyone over 210lbs is gonna put the beating on tires and wheels...that's why I'm curious...be nice to check off durability for rear...

I'm actually pretty pumped to try this.....I remember when schwalbe came out with em...I thought it was a fluke...
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,502
4,752
Australia
I'd think there would be ZERO chance of me removing a tire/CC on the side of the trail. I needed a garage, good levers and a beer. (optional but highly recommended)

That said, I rode a super rocky downhill with about 10psi and everything held up great.
I did a trip to Canada in 2018 shortly after Cushcore first arrived on the scene and during the event some people were running it with various levels of success. The people that had failures had gone for a thinner sidewall assuming the Cushcore would save them but sidewall cuts or whatever weren't prevented. During the days out on track I helped repair a couple of failed tyres with Cushcore installed and its a fiddly fucker to get done out on the trail. If you've got a few people you can do it though, but its definitely a PITA

Worst part is riding out with a sealant covered insert wrapped over you until you can leave it somewhere.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
pro core was trash, The old tube in a tire , in a tire. Did not work as advertised. two tire double pinch flats, different times. I ran 28+ psi on 27.5x 2.35-2.5 minions dhf then. No wonder its 30$. Don't waste your money.

huck norris was trash.

CC xc has been great so far. Easy install. Good protection so far. 26Psi 29x2.4 minionsdhr2 exo+
Did you ride em as xc or DH...?

I chatted at Jeff about this a bit ago, the issue was cost on return they knew it was a good idea and had lower market interest than anticipated...they closed em out...I emailed schwalbe to see what they have laying around ...but gonna try rears....26 and foam noodles don't grab me as a answer..
 

Andeh

Customer Title
Mar 3, 2020
1,008
982
My struggles getting Tannus on were with 27.5 WAO Union rim (30mm), whatever rim tape Fanatik put on them (looked like 2 offset wraps of ~20mm Tesa), and DHR EXO. I followed the printed instructions of: get NDS tire bead into channel, stuff in NDS wing of Tannus in, then DS Tannus wing, then push in the DS tire bead. I found it felt like the wings of the Tannus were fighting getting the tire bead down into the center channel a lot. I used the Cushcore lever to try and seat, but didn't use any soapy water. Didn't use a trash can, just held the tire with my body against the edge of my work bench.

When I've previously installed Cushcore with EXO tires (on 29 WAO Agent 30mm rim), I followed their instructions: fully set the insert, get tire fully outside the rim/insert, set the NDS bead, then the DS bead. Used soapy water liberally on the beads, a garbage can, and Cushcore lever. It felt pretty easy to get the bead into the center channel, and the Cushcore just got kind of stretched up to make room. Both times I did it in less than 20 minutes total, including removing the old tire and cleaning up.

I'll probably give Tannus another try some other time, but since I'm not trying to protect against rock strikes and just going for best combination of sidewall support and traction, I'm thinking that mid-weight (DD) casings are best for me.

Given my experience at how much harder it is to seat DD over EXO, seating a DH casing with an insert sounds like a special kind of hell.
 

rideit

Bob the Builder
Aug 24, 2004
23,307
11,486
In the cleavage of the Tetons
Im going to give the Tannus one more shot with a DD Dissector, but I think I will probably just run DH casings for smashing in the future. A 29DH Maxxis is a freaking pig, though. Running DH casing on the 27.5 mullet wheel.
 

wiscodh

Monkey
Jun 21, 2007
833
121
303
Did you ride em as xc or DH...?

I chatted at Jeff about this a bit ago, the issue was cost on return they knew it was a good idea and had lower market interest than anticipated...they closed em out...I emailed schwalbe to see what they have laying around ...but gonna try rears....26 and foam noodles don't grab me as a answer..
rode them at the trans Savoie when that was still a thing. Lotsa french alp DH tracks and backcountry shit goat trails, and they failed me 2x on that trip. I tore them out on the 2nd to last day. I guess 30$ isn't bad. I spent 200$ on them and was pissed, still am!

Also had the flat tire defender and pinched the tire on those as well. Pretty sure i had to cut the tire off to get those off the rims when that happened,..... I have gone thru a lot of inserts. So far CC xc has been the winner for me.
 
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