[Jr_Bullit]

The debate forum is getting quiet! The heated, passionate debates of last week are no more....

We have debated our current leaders, we have debated national politics, we have debated religion, abortion and so on...so how about some new topics....

Welfare: I think it is a heavily abused system and should either be completely erased (I hate welfare leaches, though I do recognize it has some benefits), or strongly reformed.

Social Security: Why do they continue to call it this when they take it out of MY paycheck when I already know I'll never benefit from the thousands of dollars I'm paying into the system?

Public Transportation and big cars: I say we should stop improving our major roadways and start building more cost efficient methods of transportation in all major cities of the US and get rid of this stupid traffic crap. Eliminate the single driver in the 8 person vehicle!!

Sexual Liberation!: I think americans are too uptight, and we allow our government to deal in affairs that are none of its business. If I wanna have sex with a goat, so be it! I call for sexual liberation and an end to government parentage over my rights in the bedroom!

:devil:

Okay so who's with me!

 

[Andyman_1970]

I agree that the forum has been quiet. It seemed like several Fridays in a row I was engaged in a heated debate, which was fun.

I can't for the life of me think of any good topics that I would get fired up about.........

A relegion debate forum would be cool, I'm sure that does not surprise any of you that I thought that.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Okay so who's with me!

Sorry, I ain't f**kin' no goat.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
Sorry, I ain't f**kin' no goat.

Maybe burly will share his dolphin with you

 

[LordOpie]

how about irony? Like Syria, a terrorist supporting state, getting hit by terrorists

 

[Toshi]

we haven't discussed affirmative action in a couple of weeks. and where has ohio/marc gone?

 

[bomberz1qr20]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Maybe burly will share his dolphin with you

Now hey, that was uncalled for!



Please take it back.


Ugh, now I'm sad.

 

[bomberz1qr20]

I got one -

Hunting animals for sport.

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
If I wanna have sex with a goat, so be it!

:devil:

Okay so who's with me!

Well...I'd be willing to pony up a six pack of bottles to watch. Is the goat gonna hit for the cycle with you or are you gonna be stingy with the extra bases?

 

[Jeremy R]

Originally posted by LordOpie
how about irony? Like Syria, a terrorist supporting state, getting hit by terrorists

The reason for this is simple.
The people over there are really into killing people and spilling blood. They always have been. They take up "causes" so they can justify killing.
Remember when Saddam said the reason he governed his people so harshly was because that was the only way it could be done. Well................

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Toshi
and where has ohio/marc gone?

that's a good question, but for a different reason. He's on vacation and is *supposed* to be here (Denver), but I haven't heard from him since Saturday. I should probably call. I hope he didn't go to White Ranch and get eaten by a mt. lion.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by Jeremy R
The reason for this is simple.
The people over there are really into killing people and spilling blood. They always have been. They take up "causes" so they can justify killing.
Remember when Saddam said the reason he governed his people so harshly was because that was the only way it could be done. Well................

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by llkoolkeg
Well...I'd be willing to pony up a six pack of bottles to watch. Is the goat gonna hit for the cycle with you or are you gonna be stingy with the extra bases?

Sorry luv, my goat...well he's kinda shy and doesn't really like voyeurs. Besides...aren't forms of voyeurism considered a criminal offense in some states? It could be considered a form of supporting animal ...ehr...well we won't call it cruelty

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
The heated, passionate debates of last week are no more....

i got called "8 or 9 years old" earlier in the week. Which would certainly be the case if i were born on 29 feb.

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Welfare: I think it is a heavily abused system and should either be completely erased (I hate welfare leaches, though I do recognize it has some benefits), or strongly reformed.

republican!
having received exactly one much needed unemployment check 5 years ago, i say it can help the needy, but can also enable the lazy. Howsa 'bout take a check, work the soup kitchen, or some other symbol of employment?

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Social Security: Why do they continue to call it this when they take it out of MY paycheck when I already know I'll never benefit from the thousands of dollars I'm paying into the system?

you don't have to be old to receive SS; just have a really, really bad wreck, or become terminally ill, & bennies will kick in. My dad's been eligible for SSI for 35 years but hasn't taken a cent. Probably too proud, i imagine.

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Public Transportation and big cars: I say we should stop improving our major roadways and start building more cost efficient methods of transportation in all major cities of the US and get rid of this stupid traffic crap. Eliminate the single driver in the 8 person vehicle!!

let market forces decide this.
i'm not so secretly hoping for $5/gal gas this summer. I'm sure this would still have us in the lower 10% of global prices.

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Sexual Liberation!: I think americans are too uptight, and we allow our government to deal in affairs that are none of its business. If I wanna have sex with a goat, so be it! I call for sexual liberation and an end to government parentage over my rights in the bedroom!

if health issues were extricable from sex, you could make a strong case for it. But as long as some of my tax dollars go toward social programs to "right the wrongs", it's a no-go.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit

Sexual Liberation!: I think americans are too uptight, and we allow our government to deal in affairs that are none of its business. If I wanna have sex with a goat, so be it! I call for sexual liberation and an end to government parentage over my rights in the bedroom!

:devil:

finally something worth debating. i love sex.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by $tinkle
i got called "8 or 9 years old" earlier in the week. Which would certainly be the case if i were born on 29 feb.
republican!
having received exactly one much needed unemployment check 5 years ago, i say it can help the needy, but can also enable the lazy. Howsa 'bout take a check, work the soup kitchen, or some other symbol of employment?you don't have to be old to receive SS; just have a really, really bad wreck, or become terminally ill, & bennies will kick in. My dad's been eligible for SSI for 35 years but hasn't taken a cent. Probably too proud, i imagine.let market forces decide this.
i'm not so secretly hoping for $5/gal gas this summer. I'm sure this would still have us in the lower 10% of global prices.if health issues were extricable from sex, you could make a strong case for it. But as long as some of my tax dollars go toward social programs to "right the wrongs", it's a no-go.

Ah Stinkle...you never leave a girl in the lurch

1) Welfare is not the same as Unemployment. Welfare is what we pay to those poor single mom's who just can't stop having babies. Welfare is what we pay to the poorest of the poor. grrr. Unemployment, isn't entirely an evil, though an easily abused system in need of some reform. Like, if'n you ain't workin in 6 months, why? what do you need to get workin? put those bad boys on some kind of community work program until employment opens up in their area so at least they benefit society in some way or other. And yes, if I lose my job for a year...I'll be first in line for any kind of work program until another form of employ can be found.

2) Social Security was intended to provide some kind of security to people when they get beyond working age...it's no longer this way, now it's used as a form of disability insurance, and will be tapped out by our government using it to fund other things it is also not intended to be used for. I believe the last statistic I heard (did not find myself, so I openly admit I could be totally wrong), that folks younger than 35 will not qualify for SS when they get to retirement age because there won't be any left.

3) As much as I love my car and independence, I too agree that gas prices probably should go up. I have a road bike for a reason, and don't hesitate to strap on panniers for commuting and traveling purposes when necessary. I'm also not afraid of the bus. If more people took public transport, we'd have a better transport system.

4) Okay, how about sexual liberation that is well educated? In otherwords, let's teach our youngsters about sex and be open about it, and why you need to take safety precautions etc etc and let them grow up and make good decisions?

5) affirmative action...especially when used for college or job applications needs to be brought to an end. I'm totally cool with losing my job to someone who is better qualified, I am not cool with either attaining or losing my job or my position or my acceptance into college because I do or do not fill a specific quota. People who rely up on AA to get where they are in life need to grow up and earn some skills.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Maybe burly will share his dolphin with you

My dolphin left me, and Im pretty much now just stuck with that floatie in my avatar.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
My dolphin left me, and Im pretty much now just stuck with that floatie in my avatar.

Awww....that's so sweet of you to stay in a monogamous relationship with your floatie for so long!! And it's even a safe form of physical entertainment that cannot possibly result in procreation thus saving you from needlessly worrying about kind of stick some woman will ram you with after popping out or aborting your child. :devil:

(yes I fully admit I am having a great time with this today!)

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by BurlySurly
My dolphin left me, and Im pretty much now just stuck with that floatie in my avatar.

The Floaty loves you enough to tattoo your name on "its" whatever you wanna call it......sleave.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
If I wanna have sex with a goat, so be it! I call for sexual liberation and an end to government parentage over my rights in the bedroom!

I think they key issue here is whether it's a male or a female goat.

 

[golgiaparatus]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
The debate forum is getting quiet! The heated, passionate debates of last week are no more....

We have debated our current leaders, we have debated national politics, we have debated religion, abortion and so on...so how about some new topics....

Welfare: I think it is a heavily abused system and should either be completely erased (I hate welfare leaches, though I do recognize it has some benefits), or strongly reformed.

Social Security: Why do they continue to call it this when they take it out of MY paycheck when I already know I'll never benefit from the thousands of dollars I'm paying into the system?

Public Transportation and big cars: I say we should stop improving our major roadways and start building more cost efficient methods of transportation in all major cities of the US and get rid of this stupid traffic crap. Eliminate the single driver in the 8 person vehicle!!

Sexual Liberation!: I think americans are too uptight, and we allow our government to deal in affairs that are none of its business. If I wanna have sex with a goat, so be it! I call for sexual liberation and an end to government parentage over my rights in the bedroom!

:devil:

Okay so who's with me!

LOL! Id debate but I totally agree, social security should just be called major tax #3... we should have more efficient transportation instead of more capacity for innefficient transportation... The gov'mt has no business dictating what outr sex lives should be like.

Anyway, yeah, and so on and so forth.

 

[911]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Okay, how about sexual liberation that is well educated? In otherwords, let's teach our youngsters about sex and be open about it, and why you need to take safety precautions etc etc and let them grow up and make good decisions?

Completely agree here. A sexually open and educated population would actually require less tax dollars to 'right the wrongs' of irresponsibility and poor choices.

5)People who rely up on AA to get where they are in life need to grow up and earn some skills.

People are born into lives of vastly unequal opportunity... affirmative action is supposed to help those who get the short end of the stick.

Quick example: Two people applying for college. Person A grew up in a wealthy household, attended private school, never worked a day in his life, got private SAT tutoring, basically had life handed to him... Person B grew up poor, struggled on every level just to get by, attended a sub-par inner city school where his education was talyored to prepair him for a menial job, was discouraged from persuing anything better than the status quo.

So they both apply to college. Naturally, Person A has better grades and higher test scores. Yet does that mean Person B need's to "grow up and earn some skills"? If I were Person B and someone said that to me, I'd be f-ing pissed. I've worked hard for everything in life and someone is telling me it doesn't mean sh|t because some rich kid who had help at every step got higher test scores.

Anyway, affirmative action is supposed to level the playing field to a certain extent... which isn't so bad in my opinion, although I think the program as a whole needs a considerable amount of restructuring. Point is, to say that affirmative action recipricants need to "grow up and earn some skills" discredits the staggering inequalities many of these people have had to overcome in their lives.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by 911
Completely agree here. A sexually open and educated population would actually require less tax dollars to 'right the wrongs' of irresponsibility and poor choices.



People are born into lives of vastly unequal opportunity... affirmative action is supposed to help those who get the short end of the stick.

Quick example: Two people applying for college. Person A grew up in a wealthy household, attended private school, never worked a day in his life, got private SAT tutoring, basically had life handed to him... Person B grew up poor, struggled on every level just to get by, attended a sub-par inner city school where his education was talyored to prepair him for a menial job, was discouraged from persuing anything better than the status quo.

So they both apply to college. Naturally, Person A has better grades and higher test scores. Yet does that mean Person B need's to "grow up and earn some skills"? If I were Person B and someone said that to me, I'd be f-ing pissed. I've worked hard for everything in life and someone is telling me it doesn't mean sh|t because some rich kid who had help at every step got higher test scores.

Anyway, affirmative action is supposed to level the playing field to a certain extent... which isn't so bad in my opinion, although I think the program as a whole needs a considerable amount of restructuring. Point is, to say that affirmative action recipricants need to "grow up and earn some skills" discredits the staggering inequalities many of these people have had to overcome in their lives.

I'm pretty sure most everyone here understands what AA was designed to do, but the point is, it doesn't do it. Not successfully, not well, and not fairly. If we want everyone to have an equal shot at college, at higher education, better jobs or whatever and are blaming the fact that they cannot possibly succeed on their upbringing, on their location, on the types of public school they went to then the change needs to happen in public school.

Yeah, there's a lot of kids out there where mommy and daddy foot the bill start to finish and make sure their babies grow up well, but that's by far not the majority. I went to college with those types of goons, and I got there because I worked my ass off. And I got there, without the scholarships because most scholarships include an addendum that says, yeah, great grades, write an essay, be of a specific skin color, be a minority..etc etc. Frustrating as all hell.

Call me a big meanie all you want, but as far as I'm concerned any person can achieve anything if they put their mind to it and are willing to do the work. No one hands most people anything, there's no leg up, no extra helping hand for anyone. At least that's how it should be. If ma and pa worked their butts off to give their kids the best they can, then so be it. Stop whining because your ma and pa couldn't/didn't turn it around and change it and be successful yourself. Why do we give a certain "race" extra help when there's just as many of another "skin color" living in the same poverty zone? Perhaps the aid needs to be directed towards helping people of different "classes" or "social status" to succeed, and not just specific skin colors.

Change the system, take the surveys for skin color and sex and personal wealth off of applications, and if we really wanna know, then put them on the "hired" person's file. Do the survey after you've already committed to the people that will be attending your school or working for your company. Then, if demographics still skew funny, make the changes at the elementary school level and force those changes to reverberate through all levels of public school first and secondary education.

I work with public education folks everyday, private too, but mostly public and mostly in the poorest areas in the US. Teachers and School district officials don't work in these places because of how well they get paid, they work there to make a difference and to try and get some of these "kids" to actually pay attention in school. You sit there and blame the schools for not educating the kids well enough. Perhaps the environment needs to be changed in which the kids live, but their schools tend to draw the best kind of teachers. The kind who want those kids to be successful, no matter what life and the streets teach them.

 

[Toshi]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Why do we give a certain "race" extra help when there's just as many of another "skin color" living in the same poverty zone? Perhaps the aid needs to be directed towards helping people of different "classes" or "social status" to succeed, and not just specific skin colors.

[...] Then, if demographics still skew funny, make the changes at the elementary school level and force those changes to reverberate through all levels of public school first and secondary education.

yup. having affirmative action based on socioeconomic position makes much more sense than having it tied to race. as a whole it doesn't really make sense, tho, as there certainly are enough varieties of colleges from junior/community on up to suit EVERY test score, if one has the drive. and studying in a place where your peers have equivalent abilities is best for all students.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Originally posted by Toshi
yup. having affirmative action based on socioeconomic position makes much more sense than having it tied to race. as a whole it doesn't really make sense, tho, as there certainly are enough varieties of colleges from junior/community on up to suit EVERY test score, if one has the drive. and studying in a place where your peers have equivalent abilities is best for all students.

Exactly, and there's always the school of hard knocks. I know plenty of "white" kids that supposedly have all the advantages? Who came from middle-class homes and had to pay their way through college, or didn't attend college at all.

You take the menial jobs, you learn, you compete, you move the hell up. I cannot accept the BS that the man is holding you down. Personally, if you're willing to do the work you'll succeed.

Any other attitude in my opinion is simply a consequence of serious slackerism and playing the victim. Buck up.

 

[911]

Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Perhaps the aid needs to be directed towards helping people of different "classes" or "social status" to succeed, and not just specific skin colors.

Yes... I agree. When I said "the program as a whole needs a considerable amount of restructuring" I was referring to the granting of advantage based solely on race. Implementing a program anchored around socioeconomic standing, regardless of ethnicity, as the key variable for affirmative action would make more sense.

And sure, anyone can potentially achieve anything if they work hard enough, yet personally I think there’s some merit in helping those who have to work five times as hard to achieve what someone else has handed to them. If a child is born to dead-beat parents, I don’t view that as his/her fault and I believe that we should at least attempt to breakdown some of the vast inequality that child will face in his/her life.

I realize that affirmative action is only a band-aid solution to a larger problem. What we really need is to directly attack the perpetuating inequality that’s passed through the generations of our nation’s poor. Targeting poverty at its core, rather than trying to rectify it after the fact through AA, is the answer. The University of California used to do extensive educational outreach programs where they would pour money into elementary and secondary schools in impoverished areas. By improving the quality of education for underprivileged children they directly removed some of the barriers these kids must work around to achieve success in life, lessening the need for affirmative action programs down the line. Unfortunately, due to California’s budget crisis many of these programs have been greatly scaled back or eliminated entirely.