[MtnBikerChk]

Just the facts (no commentary):

As most of you are painfully aware, I went through the "new bike search" over the summer. I decided on a Titus moto lite after having demoed it and actually speaking to a Titus sales rep a few times to decide on the right size. They were very helpful.

I purchased the frame and fork in August from a shop that is 6 hours away from me (by car) because there are no Titus dealers in Southern New England anymore.

I was aware that some of the RacerX frames were having paint issues (it's all over the MTBR reviews) but I figured it was late enough in the season and they had taken care of all the bad paint.


After a ride at Splat's house, I saw some scratches on the chainstays and turned the bike over. I saw this:

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Those pics were taken that day. Incidentally, I only rode until Mid October last fall. I went on vacation and then I put the bike away for ski season so all the pics in this thread have damage that was done between August and October 16.


I got home and emailed them to my shop. They agreed the paint should not look like that in such a short period of time. They said they would call Titus and talk to them about it. For about a month, back and forth we went. I would say "any word?" The shop would say "they know about it and they said they'll get back to us." Until finally I was told they weren't getting back to us and perhaps I should contact them directly. So I did. I sent the same pics above to the same sales rep who helped me in August.

I received a very nice response thanking me for the pics and asking me to "please call your shop." And I did. The shop owner said to me something along the lines of "Titus will offer you 2 solutions: 1. They can send you touch up paint or 2. They will send you a new frame - it'll be gray anodized - the problem was with the powdercoating."

"WOW" was my response. This was just before Thanksgiving. I told the owner I would like to think about it and would call back after the holiday. I called him that Monday and said "I would like to take them up on their generous offer." He said "great. They [Titus] will let me know when the new frame ships and I'll let you know. That way you can send your frame to me and I can do the swap in the same day to minimize down time." I said "Great. No rush because it's ski season and I probably won't ride until spring....."

November became December....December became January....and January becaome February...FINALLY, I receive an email from Titus telling me they'd like more pics and would send me a shipping label. I took more pics and the label arrived. I broke down the bike, boxed her up, and off she went. Shipping from New England to Arizona is a week. It arrived in Arizona on Monday February 26, 2007. On Tuesday, March 6, 2007, I received this response:

"The Bad news first, the QC guys say it's not a warranty. [Edited to exclude extra wording not vital to the point] What he came back with is this. Since the vast bulk of damage is on the back end, he would like to offer a new polished raw rear end, like what comes on the Ti Moto's. These are the employee purchase, warranty stock**ones, so there is VERY minor surface imperfections, very minor. They are 100% in function, and 98 to 9% in appearance. You'd still have the front end to deal with, but in a few years, get it powder coated for $150, and call it a day. It's not a free new frame, but it's better than "sorry, no warranty" Let me know what you think."

As you can guess by now, I was pissed (to say the least). After several phone calls back and forth by me, my shop and Titus called me directly, This arrived on March 14, 2007:

It sits in the box in the corner of my garage as I'm heartbroken and it to look at it makes me both angry and sad at the same time. I can't bring myself to build it.

They promised me a new frame, put me off for 3 months and then changed the story when they had my frame in hand. I never asked for anything - other than to look at the pics and let me know what they thought. Honestly, I was hoping for a new paint job. I was told they would have it repainted at their expense but it would void the warranty because they could not control any damage done in the paint removal process.

They apologized for the time it took to get back to me and assured me if I had issues with the front they would take care of it. They also threw in a t-shirt and some socks.

These were the final pics of the frame as I boxed it up and sent it to AZ:

notice the seat stay in this one

/story

 

[-dustin]

believe me, Titus pissed off a bunch of people with that ****.

 

[greenchris]

seems to be a real sh1tty situation but i think it looks sick with the new rear

 

[moff_quigley]

MBC...I feel your pain. I got caught with a busted I-Drive right when GT/Schwinn was being bought out by Pacific. 14 months later I had a replacement that promptly went up on EBay.

That being said...the new rear end is very sweet. Titus fell short of the mark they set up for themselves, but you still have a nice ride, right?

 

[cadmus]

I think I like it better w/ the new backside.

 

[Nobody]

Sometimes frame manufacturers forget [if they even knew] the emotional attachment quite a few riders have to the overall appearance of their bikes.

I remember one of my bikes was polished aluminum. And yeah, I polished the bastard once a month or more, by hand.

One guy - smellsworthless - shrugged when I told him this and said - 'It's a dirt bike for crissakes' - i just looked at him like he was insane.

I offered to key his SUV in the parking lot - "It's a f'n Utility Vehicle, for f's sake" - but he got all quiet about it suddenly.

Good luck in the future.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Uggg..... i know of at least one long-time Titus shops that have dropped them over this kind of thing.

Seems when Chris left Titus they had a huge potential to do really well, but for some reason they haven't pulled it together.

Have you posted this on MTBR's Titus forum?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Have you posted this on MTBR's Titus forum?

Well, I'm kind of afraid of the fallout from the die-hards over there - but I have posted there in the past (unrelated) so it's not like I'm a total newbie to them.

 

[I Are Baboon]

I'm in the minority that does not like the new rear. It just looks like a replacement.

But, the real issue here is the four months it took get a resolution and the fact that they renegged on their initial offer. lthumbsdown:

 

[N8 v2.0]

Well, I'm kind of afraid of the fallout from the die-hards over there - but I have posted there in the past (unrelated) so it's not like I'm a total newbie to them.

ignore those types.... that is the one place that Titus corporate actually will look at comments from customers

.... you may get some satisfaction with your paint.

if you want, i'll link this thread over on there... i aint skeerd!

 

[Jeremy R]

I'm in the minority that does not like the new rear. It just looks like a replacement.

But, the real issue here is the four months it took get a resolution and the fact that they renegged on their initial offer. lthumbsdown:

Yea, I agree.
IMO, the paint is not that big a deal. Some touch up paint would have fixed her right up.
But she was promised a new frame, then they made her wait 3 months, and said nevermind. Bad business.

 

[DRB]

Well, I'm kind of afraid of the fallout from the die-hards over there - but I have posted there in the past (unrelated) so it's not like I'm a total newbie to them.

Fallout? Piss 'em all off. You've still got us.

Sorry this happened, I know you put a lot of thought into this purchase and for it to go tits up sucks.

Its amazing how a company can take a little thing and make it a big thing.

What they should have done:

We'll send you touch up paint OR you can send the frame back for us to take a look at and make a determination about what caused the problme and what we can do about it.

Now while not the ideal solution, it seems reasonable. But to offer up a frame on pictures alone? That's kinda dumb on their part. And then to not follow thru... really dumb.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

IMO, the paint is not that big a deal. Some touch up paint would have fixed her right up.

touch up paint?

 

[TreeSaw]

I am so sorry you have to deal with all of this crap. You really worked hard to find the perfect frame and are now left with a bike that you don't really love. Titus REALLY dropped the ball on this one and it sounds like you aren't the first one to have this issue!

 

[splat]

ignore those types.... that is the one place that Titus corporate actually will look at comments from customers

.... you may get some satisfaction with your paint.

if you want, i'll link this thread over on there... i aint skeerd!

and if they give you a hard time ,we will go over there and eBulley them !

 

[McGRP01]

*sigh* That sucks. Especially coming from a reputable company like Titus.

I do like the raw back end though.

 

[Jeremy R]

I do like the raw back end though.

Hey buddy, this is a family forum.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Thanks everyone - knew I could count on the RM FAMILY.

I keep going back and forth. On one hand, I have a bike that fits me and I love to ride and for the most part looks whole again. On the other, I feel screwed. Anyone who knows me KNOWS I hate to get screwed. And I especially hate seeing women get screwed.

And I feel like they are sweeping it under the rug - and everyone else this happened to is getting screwed too - even more so, probably becauce they have frames that look like schit.

I've seen some pics of frames that they feel are "warranty worthy." I think they are picking and choosing which warranties they honor but that's pure speculation.

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - but at this point I can't think of anything they can possibly do to repair the damage with me and IAB. There won't be an El Guapo in his future, that's for sure.

And they probably don't care.

 

[urbaindk]

I think I'd be pissed too. Scratches are one thing, perfectly normal wear and tear. But when you scratch the paint and then big flakes fall off, that's bad paint adhesion. Typically this is due to bad frame prep and improper cleaning before painting or a bad undercoat, or many other variables - all having to do with the manufacturer and manufacturing process, not the rider or any damage she might inflict. Just by looking at it, I'm sure that this frame would fail most paint scratch and adhesion tests. Maybe Titus isn't doing these tests?

If I worked for Titus and saw this frame come back like that, I would be embarrassed and go pitch a bitch at my paint shop or vendor asap to figure out what's wrong and at the very least offer to repaint the frame gratis.

That's my opinion as a PhD Materials Engineer with a few years of hands on experience in exactly this area, so you might weigh it with slightly more than a grain of salt.

 

[MtnBikerChk]

If I worked for Titus and saw this frame come back like that, I would be embarrassed and go pitch a bitch at my paint shop or vendor asap to figure out what's wrong and at the very least offer to repaint the frame gratis.

FYI I was told they are no longer using the same paint vendor and are now using some company that the "big manufacturers" use.

And like I said, they would have had the frame repainted - with a back handed "oh yeah, we'll void the warranty though."

 

[macko]

I've got a friend who's sponsored by Titus. For various reasons, they pissed her (and her husband) off so much that they stripped the Titus decals off their bikes and replaced them with Huffy stickers.

Wish I had photos, maybe I'll snag one on the next ride.

 

[TreeSaw]

Thanks everyone - knew I could count on the RM FAMILY.

I keep going back and forth. On one hand, I have a bike that fits me and I love to ride and for the most part looks whole again. On the other, I feel screwed. Anyone who knows me KNOWS I hate to get screwed. And I especially hate seeing women get screwed.

And I feel like they are sweeping it under the rug - and everyone else this happened to is getting screwed too - even more so, probably becauce they have frames that look like schit.

I've seen some pics of frames that they feel are "warranty worthy." I think they are picking and choosing which warranties they honor but that's pure speculation.

Maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill - but at this point I can't think of anything they can possibly do to repair the damage with me and IAB. There won't be an El Guapo in his future, that's for sure.

And they probably don't care.

They're a boutique company that relies on customer satisfaction and word of mouth really does make a difference in this world! I wouldn't be surprised if your post sways a few from purchasing a product that is sub-standard (and yours definitely was in my book!). Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but if I were the one in charge of that paint job, I would be embarassed and unhappy about it and would do whatever it takes to make it right.

 

[TreeSaw]

FYI I was told they are no longer using the same paint vendor and are now using some company that the "big manufacturers" use.

And like I said, they would have had the frame repainted - with a back handed "oh yeah, we'll void the warranty though."

Which is, again, BS!!! Their paint issue shouldn't void your warranty!

 

[MMcG]

I was thinking about this a bit and what Titus should have done was to issue a recall on this batch of frames that had the crappily painted rear triangles as soon as they were aware of all the problems.

It sounds like quite a few people had these problems - so I think that would have been the "good customer" service decision to make rather than deciding frame by frame what is warrantiable and what isn't.

And that idea of them re-paininting it sans giving you any warranty is way off the mark.

I hope you find a happy resolution to all of this MBC.

 

[jimmydean]

Paint issues suck, I know. For them to handle this the way they did was horrible. If you like the bike, build it and ride it for all it's worth, but you know who NOT to buy from next time.

I just bought a used bike that was supposed to be in great shape only to end up spending $300 to make it dirt worthy. That doesn't include a new paint job either, but I am waiting for a new seatstay before I shoot it.

 

[urbaindk]

FYI I was told they are no longer using the same paint vendor and are now using some company that the "big manufacturers" use.

And like I said, they would have had the frame repainted - with a back handed "oh yeah, we'll void the warranty though."

That's just bunk.

1. They basically admit that they know they had a problem yet still don't fix it for you?

2. Titus paints a Titus bike and that results in a void of Titus' warranty? WTF? That's stupid.

F' them. Hell, number one is probably enough grounds for a civil suit should you care to bring one against them. I mean they admit fault but don't honor your warranty what more do you need?

 

[N8 v2.0]

i think the best thing to do is post this over on MTBR - Titus.... keep the exact same thread title and content and see what happens.

i think you'd have a fair chance of getting your problem resolved that way

 

[MMcG]

Worrying about paint...on a mountain bike ?????? If you ride it, it's gonna get scraped up no matter what. Getting the run around is inexcusable, however I don't see the big deal here.

F.W.I.W. I've got that same exact frame - it rides just as well now as it did 10 months ago when it was shiny and new.

a few paint chips here and there is one thing - but when huge chunks of paint fall off the frame after only a short period of time (MBC wasn't riding the thing every day or anything), that's another story in my book.

Titus promised one thing and renegged - that = poor customer service in my book.

 

[urbaindk]

Worrying about paint...on a mountain bike ?????? If you ride it, it's gonna get scraped up no matter what. Getting the run around is inexcusable, however I don't see the big deal here.

F.W.I.W. I've got that same exact frame - it rides just as well now as it did 10 months ago when it was shiny and new.

I don't think it's the paint that's the real problem, I think it's the getting dicked around for 4 months and getting nothing for it.

 

[binary visions]

You know what really irks me every time I read this? The fact that it would have been really easy to strip and repaint her bike, and keep the warranty intact. They screw a customer over the possibility that she might, at some future date, try and collect on a warranty.

The fact is, most bikes never get warrantied because most bikes don't break in a warranty situation. So for the minimal cost it would have run them to get the whole bike repainted, they lose at least another sale... all over an unknown future event that very likely will never occur. They know full well that you can strip a frame without a lot of structural damage.

Lame.

 

[DRB]

You know what really irks me every time I read this? The fact that it would have been really easy to strip and repaint her bike, and keep the warranty intact. They screw a customer over the possibility that she might, at some future date, try and collect on a warranty.

The fact is, most bikes never get warrantied because most bikes don't break in a warranty situation. So for the minimal cost it would have run them to get the whole bike repainted, they lose at least another sale... all over an unknown future event that very likely will never occur. They know full well that you can strip a frame without a lot of structural damage.

Lame.

Yeah seriously. How easy would it have been to take the chance that she breaks the frame and comes back to them. Even then at that point they make it rider error offer a cheap warranty replacement.

I just can't imagine how they manage to pick the dumbest of all the options available to them at each step of the process. That alone scares me to the point that the Racer X isn't that interesting to me as it was a week ago.

And to bring some levity back:

On the other, I feel screwed. Anyone who knows me KNOWS I hate to get screwed.

Sorry to hear about that IAB but I can sympathize or is it empathize?

 

[MtnBikerChk]

Sorry to hear about that IAB but I can sympathize or is it empathize?

I knew ya bastids would take that the wrong way!

 

[I Are Baboon]

Really, I don't know why MBC is complaining. They did send her socks.

 

[narlus]

And to bring some levity back:

here ya go, DRB...a softball, right down the middle:

And I especially hate seeing women get screwed.

 

[scrider]

Now I know why there are "one less Titus" Stickers around Tempe and SOMO.
J

 

[N8 v2.0]

quoted and posted on MTBR-Titus.....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2877151#post2877151

 

[brungeman]

Anyone who knows me KNOWS I hate to get screwed.

Poor IAB...


I agree that it seams customer service is not high on the priority list over at Titus. Titus is a big brand in our area due to one shop selling the heck out of them for a few years. This shop has since slowed on their sales due to Titus' poor customer care. The shop has often extended them selves beyond what Titus would do to make customers happy! eg. the shop has more than once covered the "minimal replacement cost" for things that should have been under warrantee, but Titus deemed them "non warrantable" for some stupid reason or another.

MtbTom, I completely disagree with your statement.

I have a 10yo catamount frame that I rode as hard as any bike. the powder coat on it looks better than that now.

most paint doesn't like to stick to aluminum unless it is prepped properly (common knowledge) this is def. a case of poor paint prep, which is Titus' fault not MBC's, and if she doesn't like the Polished rear, then they dropped the ball, and I feal for her situation. Its not like she bought a dept. store bike for a hundred bucks! this is some serious coin, and a lot of hard work researching her new ride prior to purchase!



IMHO, I like the polished rear, maybe it's because I can't afford to have a polished bike and a painted bike, I get the look of both in on

 

[TurnerGrl]

Man, that sux MBC

I agree - the big picture is getting the runaround for months, then not following through on the agreed solution that was offered BY Titus.

Boutique companies need to manage their reputations...I remember how awed I was to call Turner and (1) actually talk to Dave on one occasion and (2) speak with another guy there that helped me pick out the color scheme on my XCE that I got back in 2001. Felt the same way when I called Avalanche and had a long conversation with Craig about the shock set up on my RFX and what the best options were for me.

Thankfully, I haven't encountered any warranty issues with Turner (sold the XCE and bought a used RFX so doubtful that I will), but I would expect customer service after the purchase to be just as important to them. After all, I can't imagine a time when I won't have at least one Turner in my stable of rides! But an experience like this would be a major deal breaker... lthumbsdown:

 

[eaterofdog]

MBC...I feel your pain. I got caught with a busted I-Drive

I warrantied two of those things. The last one I busted hangs on my wall. I ride way too rough for a cross country full suspension.